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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    But to add, ofcourse, Metzen said that he really wants to revive illidan because he is a sucker for a good redemption story, so it is possible that could happen.
    Screw Illidan, I want to see Teron Gorefiend return!

  2. #62
    I doubt it. People were screaming that Blizzard was lazy for only adding 1 race in MoP it'd just be worse if there was nothing. But I think we'll run out of reasonable races soon and start getting weird things. They can't even handle lore for the existing races so I'm not sure how they'd go forward. Add races just for the hell of it with not lore? Add races that get a tiny bit of lore then do nothing? It'd eventually get to the point where most races are just ignored for several expansions at a time.
    Last edited by Wyrt; 2013-04-28 at 09:08 AM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The story behind the Death Knights is that they are already champions when the Lich King takes them and turns them into Death Knights. Elwynn does not train people to be Death Knights. Nor would Darnassus train their people to be Demon Hunters. Unless Blizzard whips up a story where Death Knights first come to the Alliance and the Horde and then offer Level 1 players to turn them into undead, unless they make Demon Hunters, a secret organization that has nothing to do with the Alliance and the Horde, joins Darnassus and Silvermoon, I don't see how they would make sense as a level 1 character.

    Demon Hunters have to at least have an explanation as to why they're there, and that can best be done in their own starting zone. The Demon Hunters have a lot of backstory. The rituals they go through, blinding themselves, fusing with demonic energies, becoming partly demonic themselves. There is no class identity in the normal starting zones, aside from one quest of a trainer. They would not do the Demon Hunter justice if they did not deal with what it means to be a Demon Hunter. If you're a level 1 Demon Hunter, you're already wearing a blindfold, you have demonic vision, tattoes all over your body, you already have demonic appearance, you can turn into a demon, you already have powerful glaives - and then the questgiver tells you to go kill some boars - that does not sound interesting.

    It's much better to have a whole starting zone dedicated to what it means to be a Demon Hunter. You arrive as a Level 75 player for example. You're a Night Elf warrior, you've already seen a lot, already fought in a lot of battles. Then the first quest explains how you even got here. Your character was always interested in the powers of a Demon Hunter and in his research came across information that led him to this secret Demon Hunter cult. He learns what it means to be a Demon Hunter and goes through the rituals step by step. You fight your own demons as a rite of passage and so on. At the end of the experience, which could be around level 80, you are a full-fledged Demon Hunter. Then you can have a story that explains why you would now assist your old faction again, for example the Demon Hunters can feel the return of the Legion in the very near future and send you back to your faction in order to offer help against the demons and form a symbiotic bond. You help us, we help you. We both have to be prepared for what is about to come. The Night Elves might not be easily persuaded to integrate them into their society (shit first the Highborne, now Demon Hunters, what's next?) but some of the other leaders might make a good case when they argue that their knowledge about demons might become useful, and we'll need all the manpower we can get.

    A lot of this is similar to how Death Knights get their first own runeblade, how they engrave it in the forge, how they steal their own steed and turn it into a Deathcharger. How they are freed of the Lich King's control at the battle of Light's Hope. If the game does not introduce such a lore-heavy class properly, then it will be a big disappointment for many people. In any case, you can't tell me that a DK or a DH killing boars, wolves, gnolls or quillboar is feeling heroic.
    I'm well aware of the Death Knight story, but as I said, why did the Death Knights need all this personal story, when other classes don't? Why don't Warlocks get their own starting zone for when they begin to speak with demons and learn those powers? The art of a Warlock is for the most part forbidden, especially within the Alliance, yet they get to start out like everyone else, no questions asked.

    All of the classes already have experience when they start out, even if you don't have many abilities at lvl 1 you are clearly well trained and fully battle ready.

    Killing boars will be done even if you don't start out at level one, as well as all other silly quests that are out there. In Pandaria we are even collecting beer, there's no way for Demon Hunters to get around that... Demon Hunters are also not the only lore heavy class, yet the rest of the classes don't have their own starting zone of how they become what they are.

    I understand you seem to be a huge fan of Demon Hunters, and therefor want it to be an epic experience when you finally create one, I love the idea of Demon Hunters too, but I hate the idea of skipping levels as it doesn't make sense, I hate the idea of giving certain classes special treatment.

    Say, why didn't Monks get their own starting area? How was it heroic for them to kill boars? They must have quite a lot of lore too of how they become what they are.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-28 at 11:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I doubt it. People were screaming that Blizzard was lazy for only adding 1 race in MoP it'd just be worse if there was nothing. But I think we'll run out of reasonable races soon and start getting weird things. They can't even handle lore for the existing races so I'm not sure how they'd go forward. Add races just for the hell of it with not lore? Add races that get a tiny bit of lore then do nothing? It'd eventually get to the point where most races are just ignored for several expansions at a time.
    Isn't that exactly what we have right now? I believe the Draenei haven't gotten much lore since their release, Blood Elves didn't get much before MoP. Considering the amount of races we have now though, along with each and every one having at least one leader, it's really difficult to make good story progression on all of these, along with whatever the current threat to Azeroth is. For every new race that is introduced, that's a hell of a lot of extra work.

    So I would definitely expect more races that get next to no story progression outside of their release.
    Last edited by Chaozu; 2013-04-28 at 09:12 AM.

  4. #64
    Dreadlord Sasquatch's Avatar
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    Classic - All classes and races are new.
    BC - BE and Dreanei, Horde gain Paladins, Alliance gain Shaman
    WotLK - Death Knights
    Cata - Worgen and Goblin, New combinations to original classes/races.
    MoP - Pandaren, Monk

    Class, race, class, race, class & race...

    Expecting races personally.

  5. #65
    New Char Models and 4th Spec seems likely to be a combination. Teriz already gave the pointers for it.

    And Warlocks saw a lot of Tank-Toying-Around (and some of us even do tank with disregard for crit immunity where possible) during the Beta and it is the most demanded feature by a lot of them. We love our Warlocks, but we are a bit sick of only being albe to DPS, I think. It's a inherent thing of the class. We got to tank a lot of fights back in the day each week during progression and now we see the possiblity of doing that permanently.

    The only other thing people really seem to have wanted over the years is the Demon Hunter Hero Class. With the Expansion looking like a Burning Legion one, that would make sense. But most of their Skills have gone to Warlocks already, which would require ANOTHER rework of Warlocks. Seems unlikely.

    We already got pretty much every race anybody ever cared about or the community cried for. So, I doubt it's another race. They covered all of them.
    Last edited by Xaragoth; 2013-04-28 at 09:25 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I'm well aware of the Death Knight story, but as I said, why did the Death Knights need all this personal story, when other classes don't? Why don't Warlocks get their own starting zone for when they begin to speak with demons and learn those powers? The art of a Warlock is for the most part forbidden, especially within the Alliance, yet they get to start out like everyone else, no questions asked.

    All of the classes already have experience when they start out, even if you don't have many abilities at lvl 1 you are clearly well trained and fully battle ready.

    Killing boars will be done even if you don't start out at level one, as well as all other silly quests that are out there. In Pandaria we are even collecting beer, there's no way for Demon Hunters to get around that... Demon Hunters are also not the only lore heavy class, yet the rest of the classes don't have their own starting zone of how they become what they are.

    I understand you seem to be a huge fan of Demon Hunters, and therefor want it to be an epic experience when you finally create one, I love the idea of Demon Hunters too, but I hate the idea of skipping levels as it doesn't make sense, I hate the idea of giving certain classes special treatment.

    Say, why didn't Monks get their own starting area? How was it heroic for them to kill boars? They must have quite a lot of lore too of how they become what they are.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-28 at 11:15 AM ----------



    Isn't that exactly what we have right now? I believe the Draenei haven't gotten much lore since their release, Blood Elves didn't get much before MoP. Considering the amount of races we have now though, along with each and every one having at least one leader, it's really difficult to make good story progression on all of these, along with whatever the current threat to Azeroth is. For every new race that is introduced, that's a hell of a lot of extra work.

    So I would definitely expect more races that get next to no story progression outside of their release.

    Personally I think there should be more class identity for every class. That's what I liked about SWTOR. It did a good job of dealing with class identity and the general storyline, and it offered a lot more individualized content. Warlocks did get some of that in the Green Fire questline. I guess the reason they haven't done that for every class right at the beginning of WoW was because it would've been a lot of work. And because they came up with the idea for hero classes after Vanilla. But when you're introducing just one class, that seems like a lot less work, and ultimately it's something they have to deal with when they want to explain why the class is there in the first place.

    As for Monks, to me the Wandering Isle almost felt a bit like a Monk starting zone. So much in there feels monk-ish because monks are important in Pandaren history and society. I haven't even played that zone with a non-monk. But I think the reasons for Monks not to be a hero class and instead start at level 1 is, that it doesn't feel as much as a heroic class like Death Knights and much more like a normal class. Also I heard people say that they might've been concerned about people making the decision to either level a pandaren monk and therefore skip the pandaren starting zone and miss out on it or to level a pandaren class that starts at level 1, because they wanted to see the starting zone and therefore not play a monk. Maybe that's the problems of releasing a new class and a new race in the same expansion. Monks still got more attention than other normal classes, with their own quests and their own monk sanctuary.

    No matter how much you deny it, being a level 1 death knight and killing wolves in Elwynn or boars in Westfall or Durotar is not really appealing. Blizzard even mentioned this as a reason why it starts at a higher level.

    Why did the Death Knights need all that personal story? I already said that, there is a lot to explain about why there are even Death Knights in the Alliance and the Horde.
    Last edited by Nindoriel; 2013-04-28 at 10:15 AM.
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Personally I think there should be more class identity for every class. That's what I liked about SWTOR. It did a good job of dealing with class identity and the general storyline, and it offered a lot more individualized content. Warlocks did get some of that in the Green Fire questline. I guess the reason they haven't done that for every class right at the beginning of WoW was because it would've been a lot of work. And because they came up with the idea for hero classes after Vanilla. But when you're introducing just one class, that seems like a lot less work, and ultimately it's something they have to deal with when they want to explain why the class is there in the first place.

    As for Monks, to me the Wandering Isle almost felt a bit like a Monk starting zone. So much in there feels monk-ish because monks are important in Pandaren history and society. I haven't even played that zone with a non-monk. But I think the reasons for Monks not to be a hero class and instead start at level 1 is, that it doesn't feel as much as a heroic class like Death Knights and much more like a normal class. Also I heard people say that they might've been concerned about people making the decision to either level a pandaren monk and therefore skip the pandaren starting zone and miss out on it or to level a pandaren class that starts at level 1, because they wanted to see the starting zone and therefore not play a monk. Maybe that's the problems of releasing a new class and a new race in the same expansion. Monk still got more attention than other normal classes, with their own quests and their own monk sanctuary.

    No matter how much you deny it, being a level 1 death knight and killing wolves in Elwynn or boars in Westfall or Durotar is not really appealing. Blizzard even mentioned this as a reason why it starts at a higher level.

    Why did the Death Knights need all that personal story? I already said that, there is a lot to explain about why there are even Death Knights in the Alliance and the Horde.
    There's equally much to explain of why there are Warlocks in the Alliance, cosidering how much more they hate demonic magic. Even in the Horde, it's looked down upon, but not as forbidden, but if you're caught dealing with fel magic you might find yourself to be executed. (Just look at the quest in Ashenvale when you help an "Orc" use fel magic, the Warchief isn't really all that happy.)

    You're not supposed to feel epic at level 1, because you're level 1. All other classes has to start out there, so why should Demon Hunters and Death Knights be an exception? How is it any more heroic for a Warrior to start out killing boars? It's simply something all of them has to do.

    Furthermore, Death Knights almost already start out killing boars anyways, the moment they hit Outland that's exactly what they do.

    Wandering Isle is a Pandaren starting zone, not a Monk zone. Of course you will find a lot of similarities, but it's still not a Monk zone. Also, why shouldn't Monks get to feel heroic? Just because you prefer Death Knights and Demon Hunters? I didn't find Death Knights to feel heroic at all, more like stupid and lame.

  8. #68
    Scarab Lord Alenarien's Avatar
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    It's not going to be new race skeletons/models/etc. Blizzard already confirmed in a blue post some time ago that they would be released soon enough and that the release would be probably be staggered; eg/ Dwarves/Orcs first perhaps, then Humans/Undead, then Night Elves/Trolls, so on and so forth.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Street: They've been working on the Dwarves and then the Humans and Orcs. We feel that if we can do the Humans and Orcs we can probably do all the races. It may not be the kind of thing where we turn them all on at once -- it may be a gradual rollout. It just depends on how long it takes.
    It'll be a new race, new class, or a new spec for the classes we already have.
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  9. #69
    Bloodsail Admiral Caylis's Avatar
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    I'll be honest.. as much as I like playing new classes and such... I'd rather have some more interesting specs for current classes. Give us a battle mage .. for int plate, and lock tank spec a petless hunter spec.. .. stuff like that.

  10. #70
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    There's equally much to explain of why there are Warlocks in the Alliance, cosidering how much more they hate demonic magic. Even in the Horde, it's looked down upon, but not as forbidden, but if you're caught dealing with fel magic you might find yourself to be executed. (Just look at the quest in Ashenvale when you help an "Orc" use fel magic, the Warchief isn't really all that happy.)

    You're not supposed to feel epic at level 1, because you're level 1. All other classes has to start out there, so why should Demon Hunters and Death Knights be an exception? How is it any more heroic for a Warrior to start out killing boars? It's simply something all of them has to do.

    Furthermore, Death Knights almost already start out killing boars anyways, the moment they hit Outland that's exactly what they do.

    Wandering Isle is a Pandaren starting zone, not a Monk zone. Of course you will find a lot of similarities, but it's still not a Monk zone. Also, why shouldn't Monks get to feel heroic? Just because you prefer Death Knights and Demon Hunters? I didn't find Death Knights to feel heroic at all, more like stupid and lame.
    Why are there Warlocks in the Alliance and the Horde? Warlocks are generally not accepted. They are more of this secret society that meets in shady pubs, cellars and pits. They could've done the same thing with Death Knights and put a Death Knight there in the starting area and then in the city you show them as working in secret and meeting in secret places. But it makes much more sense for citizens of Stormwind or Orgrimmar to go "I'm interested in demonic magic" than to say "I want to die and be raised as an undead". Why does it make sense for there to be Death Knights in Stormwind and Orgrimmar? Because they didn't choose to become Death Knights. It was forced on them and they freed themselves. And that is explained in the starting zone.

    You're not supposed to feel epic at level 1. Right, and that's one reason the DK doesn't start at level 1. So he can feel heroic. You're doing great things right from the beginning. Boars are just an example for low level creatures. There is nothing inherently boring about killing boars, more than killing elementals in Cataclysm. It's just that those are the kind of creatures you find in a low level zone. The point is killing low level stuff in Elwynn or Durotar doesn't feel right for a class that is supposed to be a great warrior.

    I didn't say Wandering Isle is a Monk zone, I said it felt a bit like that to me. Hell, you start at a monastery with monks everywhere.
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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Why are there Warlocks in the Alliance and the Horde? Warlocks are generally not accepted. They are more of this secret society that meets in shady pubs, cellars and pits. They could've done the same thing with Death Knights and put a Death Knight there in the starting area and then in the city you show them as working in secret and meeting in secret places. But it makes much more sense for citizens of Stormwind or Orgrimmar to go "I'm interested in demonic magic" than to say "I want to die and be raised as an undead". Why does it make sense for there to be Death Knights in Stormwind and Orgrimmar? Because they didn't choose to become Death Knights. It was forced on them and they freed themselves. And that is explained in the starting zone.

    You're not supposed to feel epic at level 1. Right, and that's one reason the DK doesn't start at level 1. So he can feel heroic. You're doing great things right from the beginning. Boars are just an example for low level creatures. There is nothing inherently boring about killing boars, more than killing elementals in Cataclysm. It's just that those are the kind of creatures you find in a low level zone. The point is killing low level stuff in Elwynn or Durotar doesn't feel right for a class that is supposed to be a great warrior.

    I didn't say Wandering Isle is a Monk zone, I said it felt a bit like that to me. Hell, you start at a monastery with monks everywhere.
    "The point is killing low level stuff in Elwynn or Durotar doesn't feel right for a class that is supposed to be a great warrior."
    Yet the Warrior class has to do it, aren't they supposed to be the greatest of all Warriors, since they are, you know, the Warrior class?

    Also, Death Knight start off to do great things? They start off slaughtering innocent civilians, I wouldn't exactly call that great. Furthermore, if starting off at a higher level automatically makes your character more heroic, why don't we just let all classes start off at 80 and remove 1-79 completely? Thus everyone gets to be heroic. But wait, then 80 would be the new level 1, and you would no longer feel heroic. Yet Death Knights get to skip ahead over other classes? Doesn't make sense.

    Level one is there for a reason, that's where you always start off in a game, that's the whole point of it.

    Even if Death Knights didn't get to choose to become what they are, even if they were raised former champions, that still does not justify them starting off at a higher level.

  12. #72
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    "The point is killing low level stuff in Elwynn or Durotar doesn't feel right for a class that is supposed to be a great warrior."
    Yet the Warrior class has to do it, aren't they supposed to be the greatest of all Warriors, since they are, you know, the Warrior class?

    Also, Death Knight start off to do great things? They start off slaughtering innocent civilians, I wouldn't exactly call that great. Furthermore, if starting off at a higher level automatically makes your character more heroic, why don't we just let all classes start off at 80 and remove 1-79 completely? Thus everyone gets to be heroic. But wait, then 80 would be the new level 1, and you would no longer feel heroic. Yet Death Knights get to skip ahead over other classes? Doesn't make sense.

    Level one is there for a reason, that's where you always start off in a game, that's the whole point of it.

    Even if Death Knights didn't get to choose to become what they are, even if they were raised former champions, that still does not justify them starting off at a higher level.
    You're taking it too literally. Exchange warrior with fighter, if you can't see the difference between the class name and the general idea of a warrior.

    I mean great things as in "great fights" and "great challenges" as opposed to kobolds, not great things as in "noble and honorable" deeds. Though you do kill Scarlet Crusaders.

    Right level 1 is there for a reason, and Death Knights start at a higher level to show how powerful they are. And that's exactly why Blizzard does it.

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    Last edited by Nindoriel; 2013-04-28 at 12:05 PM.
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  13. #73
    Scarab Lord Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    I'm hoping they add a 4th spec to paladins and shamans, if they want to further push the "hybrid" specs they should at least.... I really don't feel like there's room for another class.

    Shaman tanking, would use agility gear and shields. Fill the role between physical tanking and magic tanking.
    Paladin holy dps (shockadin), another spec to use plate int gear (which is needed) and it's something the paladin players have been requesting since it got broken early in tbc.
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  14. #74
    Vanilla - Game
    TBC - New Race
    WOTLK - New Class
    Cata - New Race
    Mists - New Race/class

    It could be either a new Race or class, but i think it'd be a new class, considering the next expansion could very well be Burning Legion based we may see some sort of Demon Hunter or something else along those lines.

  15. #75
    I think it's safe to assume there won't be a new class, Bliz did say after Wrath that they weren't going to add another class ebcause DK's were still being fairly worked on during patches, and I'd see Monks being the same. They may do 4th specs, but that seems to me to be just a big a can of worms as a new class.

    I'd say either a new race, but more likely just the all new character models.

  16. #76
    I am Murloc! TJ's Avatar
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    I don't think we will see a new class or race. I'm guessing 4th spec and maybe new character models will be the replacement for this, which I would definitely prefer. Especially the latter.

  17. #77
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    I think it's safe to assume there won't be a new class, Bliz did say after Wrath that they weren't going to add another class ebcause DK's were still being fairly worked on during patches, and I'd see Monks being the same. They may do 4th specs, but that seems to me to be just a big a can of worms as a new class.

    I'd say either a new race, but more likely just the all new character models.
    They never said they would never add a new class again. And the fact that they did add another class after Wrath, which you yourself mention, shows clearly that they do like to add new classes.
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    They never said they would never add a new class again. And the fact that they did add another class after Wrath, which you yourself mention, shows clearly that they do like to add new classes.
    I think he means they said they wouldn't add a new class every expansion, because they did say that when they announced cataclysm.

  19. #79
    No new classes, no new races, however players get new Race/Class combinations.
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  20. #80
    from cataclysm FAQ:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Is another Hero class being added to the game?

    We are not planning to add a new Hero class in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm. For this expansion, it was more appropriate to focus on the two new races, the goblins and worgen. We never intended to include a Hero class in every expansion. As you saw with death knights, adding a new class changes the dynamics of the game dramatically, which is not something we want to do in every expansion. We still have plans to introduce new Hero classes in the future.

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