So this is my first post and I come to MMO for advice and general tips and tricks. We seem to have hit a wall with Meg when we get to about the 5th head. No matter the combinations we try we just can't seem to get it. I am a bit noobish when looking at these logs but a LOT of our damage comes from acid rain so I thought perhaps we could incorporate less greens and more reds.
We have tried:
I am looking for any tips that anyone may have. You can critique the players and even me with tips but overall were looking at what we can do better as a guild. Please note we are pretty casual and not all hardcore but we put in our best effort. Be gentle to me in your responses!
ps here are our attempts from last night.
worldoflogs dot com/reports /rt-rmjv3qrxvv73zs9q/
Last edited by searges; 2013-05-03 at 06:20 PM.
We killed it twice now. Last week we worked on the GRGRGRGR tactic, but the closest we got was 4% on the last head, after that we didn't even get that close. In the end we tried out BRBRGRB, and killed it. On wednesday we oneshot it with the same tactic. We found it really helped to not have the green atomic bomb on the raid constantly, you do have to reset the green head, which is why we killed it on the 5th, but one green head in the back is doable.
Originally Posted by Bashiok
Psshhh. Like I would actually bother reading a thread.
If you're DPS is high enough you could do as someone above said and four heal it, we tried GRGRGRG for ages but it wasnt healable come the last couple of heads, now we do GRGRGBG bloodlusting on second off last head and using second pots and cooldowns on last. We stack for rampages and spread after them with instant dispels on the fire debuff. Get hunters to deterrence and mages to iceblock etc etc when the green bomb comes down. Hope it helps
This might be stating the obvious, but it really really helps to have a solid raid cooldown rotation for the rampages, you're just winging it and hoping someone is hitting one every time you might stop to make sure that is actually occurring. If you don't have enough to cover any rampages, skip the earlier ones and save the best ones for the end.
Specific healer assignments also can help a good deal, at least with the tanks. Obviously everyone will need to cross heal, but setting priorities helps prevent all the healers from jumping to, say, the on fire tank and then the green bomb hits and kills three DPS because oops everyone was spamming heals on the tank instead of focusing on getting the raid high enough to survive it. Again, these shouldn't be hard assignments, but general priorities so if multiple people need heals, the healers all go to different places.
Why do people ever kill Green. I don't understand why everyone running from bombs is easier than one person kiting a beam at a time. You even have a lock, so you can start fairly far out, kite beams over each other to a lock gateway in the back, gateway back once you get there, and the beam doubles back on itself and you lose even less uptime. You don't even have to clear Icy Ground with Cinders if you do it correctly; just stack beams and instantly dispel Cinders.
Also, your rogue needs to improve his Rupture uptime. Your hunters need to improve their Black Arrow and Serpent Sting uptime in addition to pressing the rest of their buttons more.
In #2 what was killing folks was a (reasonable) acid bomb hit followed by cinders. Cinders was allowed to tick 3 times or more. Later in the fight this is a lot of damage. There's two things to help this:
- individuals should be saving a personal + healthstone for these situations
- don't worry about perfect placement of the cinders later in the fight. Dispel quickly.
In #7 the frost was really poorly handled.
Ultimately the colour order doesn't matter much. Pick something and stick with it. I'd really recommend 3 healing over 4 healing. There is no reason to 4 heal since the nerf, and 4 healing drags the fight out and gives the mechanics more time to align and gib someone.
Why do people ever kill Green. I don't understand why everyone running from bombs is easier than one person kiting a beam at a time.
If everyone is spaced out, it isn't "everyone" running from the bombs, it should just be one person - same as the beam. The only real difference is whether it's easier for your team to learn to move out of the green, or learn to kite the beam.
I've killed it quite a few times. alternating green and red is by far the easiest method. We also do Healers at about 20 yrds an all other ranged at 40yrds. We also instantly dispel the fire rather than waiting for people to move (unless melee then rogue has to move)
We do GRGR-B-RG. We found this helps with the issue of green poison bombs getting too overwhelming and only having to really kite ice for one head. We use hero when the 6th head is at 35% to carry through the last rampage. If a healer has to kite blue on the final head they call it out so the other two know to focus tanks. Instantly dispel cinders, the tick is too much damage to leave on someone. There is more than enough room to deal with a bad cinders placement for a minute, even in melee. Everyone knows if its on them, it's instantly getting dispelled and they have to move.
Edit: close to the order you tried, except killing red for 6th head instead of green eliminates the extra poison on last head, just leaves more dispelling, which is easy to handle imo.
Thanks for all the quick replies so far. I have some to take away and just wanted to clarify some other things. I am the rogue and I realize my rup could be improved, I just always have this weird habit of not wanting to rup unless I have 5cp. Either way I will have to make some changes there. If it helps to know I am also the RL.
As far as cooldowns and focus our healers are doing that for the most part. You should see something like all healing(no CD) on the first rampage, then tranq, link, pally CD. Or some other various combo. The druid should be on the DK and the pally should be focusing on the War.
I brought up dealing with green less because our healers expressed that they would rather have to deal with cinders immediately and were pressured at all the raid wide damage.
Again thanks yall for the input so far and I look forward to more! I have heard this is a major healing check and so I think we may just have to refine our process till we get the perfect combo and can execute it nicely. Hopefully we can come back this next week and complete it.
5 easy steps for maximum win:
- use two camps. camp A is located between Red and Blue, Camp B is located between Blue and Green. Start at Camp B and alternate them.
- Use GRGRBRB ~ Only very few blue beams, minimum of poison bombs. You need to instadispell the red debuff thou.
- Bloodlust at the FIFTH rampage. Note, that that is NOT the last rampage. BL at rampage 5 will ensure, that the sixth head (being red) will be dead or almost dead right after the rampage. Which will hinder the blue head to shoot his beams (no beams/debuffs/poisonbombs during rampage)
- If you happen to have a warlock here´s the plan: let them place a portal between the Camps and as far away as possible. When you start beating the last head (which could be blue cause everyone can reach it easily) the beams will start to shoot (remember: during head 6 no beams cause bloodlust rampage 5). Kite the beam straight out of the camp to the portal in the back (not the one between the camps!), use portal, start dps/healing. The beam won´t veer reach you.
- Some minor shenanigans: 1) Let the better geared tank start to tank blue right at the beginning. It will rotate so that he has the blue head when you kill it at first (fifth head). due to the haste buff a head receives when not killed, this head will deal a lot of melee damage. 2) your healers need a clear rotation for each rampage. first three rampages do not need cooldowns longer than 1 minute. 3) Don´t stack up as melees. never stack up with the tank. After head 5 you need to instadispell the debuff, don´t place it in the most retarded position possible.
You even have a lock, so you can start fairly far out, kite beams over each other to a lock gateway in the back, gateway back once you get there, and the beam doubles back on itself and you lose even less uptime. You don't even have to clear Icy Ground with Cinders if you do it correctly; just stack beams and instantly dispel Cinders.
I drop a gateway on each attempt, one end at the back by the shrooms, and the other end about 5-10 yards away from the blue head - It's completely safe from the breath-areas no matter which heads are up. People are starting to get the hang of it, but our usage isn't quite optimal yet - some of the beams end up splattered all over the area around the gateway, making just getting to the gateway a hazardous task.
Originally Posted by Fez
If you're DPS is high enough you could do as someone above said and four heal it, we tried GRGRGRG for ages but it wasnt healable come the last couple of heads, now we do GRGRGBG bloodlusting on second off last head and using second pots and cooldowns on last.
On average, every head after the first was dying about 5 seconds after the 3rd breath.
Does anyone know if there's a distance where it's not worth running from the poison bomb anymore? Three of our DPS are fully-mobile - is there a point to running as far as possible, or does damage stop decreasing after a certain distance from the bomb?
Last edited by Arrowspace; 2013-05-03 at 08:01 PM.
GRBRGRB - deal with mechanics and the healing is easy
My group has tried a bunch of different orders as well and this seems to provide the best compromise between overall damage taken and mechanics. 2 green and 1 blue up at the last phase isn't too bad. The relative lack of blues allows for instant red dispels later in the fight as well.
I figured I'd toss some extra tips to help out that I see a lot of people gloss over. Everyone always just focuses on the order of the head kill which it does matter but there are very important pointers as well important.
1. If a red head is up you must kill it. These heads do so much dmg to the tank its insane. The breath attacks dots is just massive. Healer cds for tanks are helpful, like Hand of Purity and Ironbark, you want to reduce the dmg, not heal through it. The biggest change we made was saving our 2min dps cds for the red hydras every time. This allows us to drop each of the red heads in 2 breaths. To Illustrate with numbers my group does GRGRBRG. With this order we tank green 5 times, red 3, and blue 6. Keep in mind buffs. Killing a color gives that color 15% more dmg; but not killing a head gives it 20% haste. Now if you take total dmg each color dealt to the tank over number of times it was tanked. Each blue did 2.8m, each green 2.7m, and each red 4.7m. So again Red is a very nasty head.
2.There is no all perfect head order. As you've read there is like 6+ popular ways of doing it. Keep in mind the Pros and Cons of each. GRGRGRG= very little movement, but very high healing requirement. BRBRBRB = much much less dmg taken, but much much more movement, and can be annoying for healers to reach both tanks, when they have to run out. My group also found this to have bad RNG, basically it had points where our healers got focused with ice beams, causing tank deaths because all 3 we running at the same time near end. But if it focused dps too much it lowered dmg to a point where we'd get a 3rd or even a 4th breath from the red head destroying our tank. BRGBRGB = this seems like a balanced approach but it breaks the first rule, the extra red head round will massively up tank damage. One tank will still be ticking with the dot when the other starts ticking, and like I illustrated above the red head does a lot more dmg than green or blue.
Best staring places imo are either GRGRBRG = focuses on delaying movement until later, by dealing with aoe earlier BRBRGRB = focuses on delaying heavy aoe until later, by requiring more movement early.
Trial and error from there, if you find your group sucks at movement like mine, add more green heads in; else if you can't keep up with the healing required (maybe your comp just doesn't allow for it), add more blue heads. But never break the first rule, your order should always be XRXRXRX.
3.The 5th head is the wall. For whatever reason no matter which head order you do there is a massive brick wall when you hit the fourth enrage and start dpsing your 5th head. For our order (GRGRBRG to remind ya) we did extra cds here and planned for it. My group tried to all have a healthstone off cd for this, also we symbiosis'd our shadow priest to get a tranquility. Find something. Often time it'll have to be a dpser in the reserves (our other backup is our feral druid specing heart of the wild to do a massive backup tranquility). The logic is the 5th and 6th enrages will be harder, but we found that Bloodlust made the 5th one easy, and the last one we just had our strongest cds back up. Keep in mind things that'll make the transitions from heads harder. Part of what made our order's 4th enrage so hard is we always seems to have on last Acid Rain landing moments after dropping the head. Thus everyone was already -200k health each when enrage started . Thus the extra cd we pulled out. Coming out of the enrage with everyone close to topped of is a must. IMO its not the 5th head that is a wall its that the 4th enrage sealed your fate 20 seconds ago and you've been fighting inevitability since.
Keep working it, its one of the fights that after your first kill, they just get easier and easier rapidly making you wonder why you had so much trouble in the first place. Also Ji-kun is a free loot practically, swear we did like 5 attempts which it shouldn't even take that. It took us that many cause it was split over 2 nights and we had to swap some people.
Because blue is a huge time waste for whoever gets it (kiting it basically means you are out of the fight for the duration) and one person can screw it up by kiting in the wrong spot as well.
Green is just a heal check, and with proper use of personal defensive / abilities by the DPS classes it's pretty easy to negate ... and the extra healing you have to do is then easily made up for by the extra DPS done without having to run from beams all the time.