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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Incite us to what ? Do a giant party celebrating death of metzens abomination ? Let's face it many (if not most) players are so fed up with thrall that i don't think they treat lore around him seriously anymore.
    i do because he is the only decent orc around and no the barren jokes about saurfang aren't canon
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    you assume a lot without basis of statistics. Or, you just assume the few who think like you are the majority?
    I assume that majority of people do not enjoy experiencing metzen's mental/spiritual masturbation. Seriously i read better fapfiction's than what this guy is writing.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I already said, name ACTIVE orcs that have been in the story since wrath. Saurfang has not, and Eitrigg hasn't done anything since the shattering novel.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 10:08 PM ----------



    don't try to rationalize with garrosh fans, to them its fun to follow a dictator and tyrant without needing to appear subtle.
    Don't try to rationalize with Thrall fans, to them its fun to follow a pacifist and coward without needing to appear subtle.

  4. #24
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Don't try to rationalize with Thrall fans, to them its fun to follow a pacifist and coward without needing to appear subtle.
    Except what Trassk said while insulting has more truth than what you said. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Thrall hate needs to stop.


    I assume that majority of people do not enjoy experiencing metzen's mental/spiritual masturbation. Seriously i read better fapfiction's than what this guy is writing.

    And I seen more constructive comments better than you.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2013-04-27 at 09:23 PM.
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  5. #25
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I assume that majority of people do not enjoy experiencing metzen's mental/spiritual masturbation. Seriously i read better fapfiction's than what this guy is writing.
    yeah see, the minority comes from people with this butthurt mentality of accusing the developers of wrong doing in the game they spend time complaining about.

    You do know what that makes you look like right? Someone who spends time ripping on one of the chief developers of warcraft because of him having a passion for what he does? It makes you look shallow. And same to others of the same class.

    What I appreciate about people like metzen is he puts a lot of hard work into what he does, and shows how much he enjoys it. He also loves the characters he helped to create, since despite your lack of understanding of the creative process, you keep using the same immature retort of sueism against him and what he creates.

    I'd certainly like to see you attempt to create characters with the kind of dedication metzen has, but I'll just assume your a forum complainer with no creative talent jumping on the nearest bandwagon.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 10:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Except what Trassk said while insulting has more truth than what you said. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Thrall hate needs to stop.
    but there not going to, because the basis of it is complete bullshit, founded on a very ignorent understanding of characterization. People who like asshats favor them and will be against heroic characters for that very reason. There is no rational argument they can add that makes it plausible.
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  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Shampro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I assume that majority of people do not enjoy experiencing metzen's mental/spiritual masturbation. Seriously i read better fapfiction's than what this guy is writing.
    Your hate for Metzen is pretty hilarious, its basicly the mirror of Trassk hate for Garrosh. Atleast he hates a fictional character, you hate one of the guys that build the story of this game since back in the Warcraft RTS games. I honestly havent gone 1 thread without you spewing that same sentance.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Except what Trassk said while insulting has more truth than what you said. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Thrall hate needs to stop.
    I don't think there is any kind of Thrall hate. Thrall is a character who is pretty much unhateable. He is proud but knows how to be humble. He is both a powerfull warrior and a talented shaman. He is patient but can act quickly if required. This guy is pretty much unflawed. People often perceive it as a flaw, and call him "Green Jesus" - and I'm totally supporting it. Thrall is green, and Jesus is awesome. How to hate such a character?

    The problem is with the developement. In Cataclysm Thrall was being showed to our throats every few minutes. He literally became a central character in a game that didn't really have one, and it felt quite awkward. The culmination in Dragon Soul... well, I guess everybody connected to the creation of both story and mechanics of this raid already knows how much he screwed up. Thrall being the Ultimate Deus Ex Machina was going one step too far.

    Thats pretty much the problem. The overdevelopement of this character made him tired, at least for some time. MoP started developing many other important characters, like Jaina, Vol'Jin, Baine, Anduin, Varian or Chen, nobody felt we need another one in this box. So, when Thrall comes in AGAIN, after having so much screen time already, and starts playing martyr, it doesn't feel right. Blizzard (Metzen) made a mistake with Thralls silly developement in Cata, they should let go a bit.

  8. #28
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    Final attack of the SoO battle, as we all lay on the ground battered and dying, with Thrall dead and mounted in chains on the gates of Orgrimmar as a warning to the Horde.. A huge shadow appears in the throne room door. Gamon bellows "Not in my Town!!!!! Charges and cleaves the possessed Garrosh's head in two.
    end of instance.

  9. #29
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    I don't think there is any kind of Thrall hate. Thrall is a character who is pretty much unhateable. He is proud but knows how to be humble. He is both a powerfull warrior and a talented shaman. He is patient but can act quickly if required. This guy is pretty much unflawed. People often perceive it as a flaw, and call him "Green Jesus" - and I'm totally supporting it. Thrall is green, and Jesus is awesome. How to hate such a character?

    The problem is with the developement. In Cataclysm Thrall was being showed to our throats every few minutes. He literally became a central character in a game that didn't really have one, and it felt quite awkward. The culmination in Dragon Soul... well, I guess everybody connected to the creation of both story and mechanics of this raid already knows how much he screwed up. Thrall being the Ultimate Deus Ex Machina was going one step too far.

    Thats pretty much the problem. The overdevelopement of this character made him tired, at least for some time. MoP started developing many other important characters, like Jaina, Vol'Jin, Baine, Anduin, Varian or Chen, nobody felt we need another one in this box. So, when Thrall comes in AGAIN, after having so much screen time already, and starts playing martyr, it doesn't feel right. Blizzard (Metzen) made a mistake with Thralls silly developement in Cata, they should let go a bit.
    Thats actually a good way of discribing all this. I do feel they did make a mistake in cataclysm, and to this day to the day I die will say that expansion was the worst mistake they made in terms of story.
    However, casting Thrall into the background because of the mistakes made in cataclysm isn't creative, its trying to avoid taking responsibility. If they want to right some of the wrongs they did such as to Thrall, then keep him in the background for a bit, but then show that he is a horde character, one prepared to fight for his people. Show that he isn't all powerful, but then show his dedication to his people is stronger then anything Garrosh could throw at him. Also show that in Thralls journey and even becoming a father has taught me much more about what matters to his people then Garrosh can ever give them. And have this wake the orcs up to realizing there mistake in following Garrosh.
    this would bring Thrall down to earth and make him humble again, you could even have Varian save him as Garrosh goes to bring gorehowl down on Thrall, and the two of them both fight Garrosh.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-04-27 at 09:49 PM.
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  10. #30
    Brewmaster Desareon's Avatar
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    1 million years, dungeon!

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Actually Baine is hardly developed. I'm a little disappointed he isn't doing anything.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Thats actually a good way of discribing all this. I do feel they did make a mistake in cataclysm, and to this day to the day I die will say that expansion was the worst mistake they made in terms of story.
    However, casting Thrall into the background because of the mistakes made in cataclysm isn't creative, its trying to avoid taking responsibility. If they want to right some of the wrongs they did such as to Thrall, then keep him in the background for a bit, but then show that he is a horde character, one prepared to fight for his people. Show that he isn't all powerful, but then show his dedication to his people is stronger then anything Garrosh could throw at him. Also show that in Thralls journey and even becoming a father has taught me much more about what matters to his people then Garrosh can ever give them. And have this wake the orcs up to realizing there mistake in following Garrosh.
    this would bring Thrall down to earth and make him humble again, you could even have Varian save him as Garrosh goes to bring gorehowl down on Thrall, and the two of them both fight Garrosh.
    Well, the problem is what is Thrall supposed to do in Orgrimmar. "Waking the orcs" by making himself either a martyr or a great orator isn't going to help much, it would again place Thrall is a position of "The Paragon of Goodness". Making the same mistake again, that is.

    What I would like to see (and what I doubt will happen) is Thrall actually having a sort of conversation with Garrosh. They have had it when Thrall gave up the leadership, they have had one more in the Shattering, where Thrall decided forgive Garrosh for killing Cairne. Every time (well, besides the moment when Garrosh dueled Thrall) Garry was quite calm and respectfull when talking to Thrall. I really wonder how it would look now, after all this time.

  13. #33
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    I think we will do scenario in 5.4 where we go with Go'el and in the end we lose Garrosh (he is captured) and next when we se him is corrupted by Sha and we have to fight him till his hp goes to 10% !

    BTW Shamans dont use mass teleport


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  14. #34
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Well, the problem is what is Thrall supposed to do in Orgrimmar. "Waking the orcs" by making himself either a martyr or a great orator isn't going to help much, it would again place Thrall is a position of "The Paragon of Goodness". Making the same mistake again, that is.

    What I would like to see (and what I doubt will happen) is Thrall actually having a sort of conversation with Garrosh. They have had it when Thrall gave up the leadership, they have had one more in the Shattering, where Thrall decided forgive Garrosh for killing Cairne. Every time (well, besides the moment when Garrosh dueled Thrall) Garry was quite calm and respectfull when talking to Thrall. I really wonder how it would look now, after all this time.
    We already know the answer to that. Garrosh being how he is now, he'll be someone who says 'this is all you wanted me to become' or some shit like that, and Thrall will say 'no garrosh, this is not what the horde is', to which Garrosh will say 'I am the warchief Thrall, not you, you will submit to me, as I lead our horde across this world and claim it for the orcs!', and Thrall responds in similar retort 'this is not what we are', and back and forth, until either Garrosh uses one of his new tricks to capture Thrall, or something else along such ways.

    Garrosh is a predicable character, and pretty one dimensional.
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  15. #35
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragashii View Post
    I hope he dies. Thrall is a drain on the horde. An orc, raised by humans that did nothing but polish human boots once he left their care. He would see his people starve in the desert before he lets an alliance boot go unshined. If he dies nothing will be lost for the horde. He's never done anything for himself, the humans took care of him his whole life. Educated him, fed him, sheltered him and the prophet told him to rally the clans and go to kalimdor. Once he got there, he had no idea how to feed his people and solve the issues they faced. He instead spent his time trying to beg for help from the very faction that he just left.

    So let the glorious Garrosh who has already done more good for the horde strike down the human known as Thrall.
    Wow hold your horses. As I can see you dont know Thrall at all and with that not quite good in Lore knowledge.

    He was raised by humans but he was strong enough to appose his master his teacher. If he was human-lover coward he would stay with Blackmoore be his champion, train army and hell knows what would happen then. But he had his own will to oppose him free his people from slavery and PROPHET DIDT TELL HIM TO RALLY CLANS he just told him to go to Kalimdor, which says nothing about Thralls leadership. Medivh just warned him because he knew that Burning Legion was coming, he warned lot other people so what? Everyone who listened him are idiots who Cant do anything by himself/herself?

    Why should a good Leader do something for HIMSELF? Dont understand.
    And when he got in Kalimdor he had already quite good army and Allies like trolls. He imminently Allied with Tauren people. Only problem for him was to find a perceft place to build city - not inexperience. And he solved every problem like expert. He allied with Tauren (native people would tell them more) who gave them food and information. He ordered idiot Grom Hellscream (we was foolish like his son is) to harvest lumber and DO NOT ATTACK humans but noooo, Gromm's little brains could not understand that and he started war vs human and if not thrall we would be wiped out. Then Gromm started war against Night Elves without negotiating with them and then he made grave mistake to drink blood of demon in order to defeat single group of night elves. How pathetic.


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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstrong View Post
    Methinks SoO patch trailer will show us that after Thrall arrived in orgrimmar he and Garrosh go a round 2 in Mak'gora. Garrosh will be unable to beat Thrall with his own strength alone and will take a bite from the heart of y'shaarj becoming quite a big stronger obviously and beating Thrall.

    Thrall will then pretty much be chained somewhere in Orgrimmar. Bolvar v.2 maybe? Hanging in chains atop Garrosh throne.
    "There must always be a Warchief"..... "let me take this ???"...

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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    why would you assume Thrall would be corrupted by the sha of pride? You actually think he'd be corrupted by such a sha, when you have Garrosh there?
    Why wouldn't he be affected by pride?

    He isn't a spineless coward. Moreover, being humble has nothing to do with lacking pride. He takes pride in the Horde that he built, pride in his child, pride in all he has tried to accomplish, and to see what Garrosh has turned the Horde into... it's almost like defamation of Thrall's legacy and the memory of their ancestors, which would stand as an affront to his pride. He is full of pride when he decides to saunter into Ogrimmar on his own to try and raise an army.

    There is no doubt that Thrall is a proud orc, and he has many things to be proud of. I see no reason why the Sha of Pride (if Garrosh has it with him in Ogrimmar) wouldn't take advantage of that and try to turn him as well. If Blizz didn't want to make him a completely worthless character, they would make it so that he isn't able to resist the corruption.

  18. #38
    I am Murloc! Sky High's Avatar
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    meh, I'm willing to bet the biggest lose the horde will have major character's wise will be Garrosh. Metzen's alter ego will be around as long as this franchise exists. Vol'jin and Lor'themar have been given to much attention to be put up to the chopping block, in any way beyond speculation. MAYBE they will kill off some of the lesser Orc characters like Entrig and Saurfang (which i don't want them to, but again this is speculation). I would have hopped Blizzard would make or at teh least retcon a new Orc character who is in a lot of ways like thrall and in ways like Garrosh. one who has genuine respect for all the horde races but also cut throat enough to stick it to the allies when the situation called for it. but of course this is all just wishful thinking, that mantle has pretty much fallen to Vol'jin.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 03:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    He isn't a spineless coward. Moreover, being humble has nothing to do with lacking pride. He takes pride in the Horde that he built, pride in his child, pride in all he has tried to accomplish, and to see what Garrosh has turned the Horde into... it's almost like defamation of Thrall's legacy and the memory of their ancestors, which would stand as an affront to his pride. He is full of pride when he decides to saunter into Ogrimmar on his own to try and raise an army.

    There is no doubt that Thrall is a proud orc, and he has many things to be proud of. I see no reason why the Sha of Pride (if Garrosh has it with him in Ogrimmar) wouldn't take advantage of that and try to turn him as well. If Blizz didn't want to make him a completely worthless character, they would make it so that he isn't able to resist the corruption.
    this makes a lot of sense. Blizz has made it clear Garrosh is to be fought as he is, but that doesn't mean he cant twist or corrupt other horde characters to be bosses in SoO.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Im not gonna lie, one thrall-centered chain quest per century is more than enough. Let other characters shine for once.
    It should be Saurfang.

    Mind you, there'd be no need for a siege...or rebellion for that matter...if he went.

    EJL

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    I don't think there is any kind of Thrall hate. Thrall is a character who is pretty much unhateable. He is proud but knows how to be humble. He is both a powerfull warrior and a talented shaman. He is patient but can act quickly if required. This guy is pretty much unflawed. People often perceive it as a flaw, and call him "Green Jesus" - and I'm totally supporting it. Thrall is green, and Jesus is awesome. How to hate such a character?

    The problem is with the developement. In Cataclysm Thrall was being showed to our throats every few minutes. He literally became a central character in a game that didn't really have one, and it felt quite awkward. The culmination in Dragon Soul... well, I guess everybody connected to the creation of both story and mechanics of this raid already knows how much he screwed up. Thrall being the Ultimate Deus Ex Machina was going one step too far.

    Thats pretty much the problem. The overdevelopement of this character made him tired, at least for some time. MoP started developing many other important characters, like Jaina, Vol'Jin, Baine, Anduin, Varian or Chen, nobody felt we need another one in this box. So, when Thrall comes in AGAIN, after having so much screen time already, and starts playing martyr, it doesn't feel right. Blizzard (Metzen) made a mistake with Thralls silly developement in Cata, they should let go a bit.
    Thrall is a very easy character to hate. Just look at his Hypocrisy in tides of war.
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