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  1. #21
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by liljc711 View Post
    What if they changed touch of karma to do direct dmg instead of shitty dot. My burst classes just run through it no problem, and dk i can just conversion lolheal through it, or if that's too powerful maybe 75% dmg, possible glyph idea?.

    Also, they need to allow touch of karma to be used while stunned/silence? it would definitely help counter openers until you're able to build chi to pop other survivabililty cds.
    No survivability skills take Chi to use, so I'm not sure what you mean. I'd really rather see a Dampen Harm buff, though. I could see people complaining about a ToK buff.

  2. #22
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Even after the 5.3 nerfs WW is perfectly fine. They're able to contend with the best melee (which happen to be hybrids atm) and have enough active defense to ensure that they're a threat.

    Just as most people don't know how to deal with WW monks more others don't even know how to play them. A good WW monk will make you wish you were versing a T2 rogue instead.

    But there is ONE very major problem with the class: it's dependence on RNG avoidance (random dodge/parry) against melee. RNG avoidance outside of heavy cds just needs to be completely removed and classes such as monks and to a much lesser extent rogues and ferals that rely on them need to be compensated. There's no reason to have this retarded anti-melee mechanic in the game when casters are already flat out better in most regards. AND this defense only works negatively for the classes that have them due to how much CC there is completely negating the defense in the first place in rated play.
    Dueling Rogues as a Brewmaster is hilarious. It's basically a game of mashing buttons and PRAYING something will actually land so you can begin building combo points/chi/whatever.

    Avoidance in PvP is so fucking stupid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  3. #23
    Windwalkers by design are built for sustained DPS. Not only does sustained DPS not really work in PvP, but they can hardly even set it up properly to start sustaining to begin with. IMO Windwalkers are never ever a threat.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    Windwalkers by design are built for sustained DPS. Not only does sustained DPS not really work in PvP, but they can hardly even set it up properly to start sustaining to begin with. IMO Windwalkers are never ever a threat.
    Recently I decided to stack mastery as high as I could for arena, and dropped Ring of Peace for Leg Sweep (only switched back to ring for playing against double-melee). The results have been positive/hilarious. Playing Monk/ShadowPriest/RShaman

    Basically, we dick around and play cheesy defense until I have 10 Tigers Eye, and then dump CC on the other team's DPS. Pop tigers eye, do Chi Wave->FoF->Leg Sweep + SPriest burst on the healer. If it's not a Paladin, they're done.

    Mt TeB with this setup is over 50%... tell me that's not burst. 1v1 I can kill my Shaman teammate from about 80% to 0 (via touch of death ofc) with TeB by doing what I described above.

  5. #25
    Most prominent problem seems to be that most Monk players are not very good. Usually they run around doing little to no pressure, but the few good ones I've faced in 3s... Except for a long ramp up time, they are a real threat.

  6. #26
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halifax View Post
    Recently I decided to stack mastery as high as I could for arena, and dropped Ring of Peace for Leg Sweep (only switched back to ring for playing against double-melee). The results have been positive/hilarious. Playing Monk/ShadowPriest/RShaman

    Basically, we dick around and play cheesy defense until I have 10 Tigers Eye, and then dump CC on the other team's DPS. Pop tigers eye, do Chi Wave->FoF->Leg Sweep + SPriest burst on the healer. If it's not a Paladin, they're done.

    Mt TeB with this setup is over 50%... tell me that's not burst. 1v1 I can kill my Shaman teammate from about 80% to 0 (via touch of death ofc) with TeB by doing what I described above.
    Wait, I thought Touch of Death couldn't be used on players.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    windwalkers have everything and then some.

    - disarm ( 2 if specced into )
    - stun ( 2 if specced into )
    - cloak of shadows
    - 90% shield wall
    - 20% shield wall with 20% extra hp
    - extra trinket
    - insane mobility and self freedoms
    - snare and a root
    - healing
    - blanket silence baked into interrupt
    - ranged instant cc
    - lock portal kinda mechanic
    - execute that actually straight up kills people from 10%

    its just the fact that its the new class and most ppl are just fine playing their current mains. thus the class is filled with "bad" rerollers who cant utilize all the tools they got.
    Last edited by Wootylicious; 2013-05-02 at 10:06 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Wait, I thought Touch of Death couldn't be used on players.
    The 4 piece PvP bonus allows it to be used on players who are under 10% HP. It's basically execute, only guaranteed to kill through anything except cheat death mechanics. It can also be glyphed to be free, which is great because usually when I'm finished my burst move I'm out of chi/energy, and my target is usually in that Touch of Death range.

  9. #29
    They certainly kick my rogues ass all over the place if i end up one on one with them in the arena.

  10. #30
    To respond to the title: imo, not really. I'm currently on a break (still watching streams and stuff) and I'm a pretty bad PvPer, so my opinion doesn't matter that much. But as an enhancement shaman, I can kind of relate to you WWs. Not that I feel like I have no real burst (which is pretty much stupid as I pretty much outdamage anyone atm) but rather that there's something missing. I don't really like the fact that my single target damage is going to be buffed come 5.3, I'd rather have some more cc/survivability. It's pretty much the contrary for WWs I guess.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Wootylicious View Post
    windwalkers have everything and then some.

    - disarm ( 2 if specced into )
    - stun ( 2 if specced into )
    - cloak of shadows
    - 90% shield wall
    - 20% shield wall with 20% extra hp
    - extra trinket
    - insane mobility and self freedoms
    - snare and a root
    - healing
    - blanket silence baked into interrupt
    - ranged instant cc
    - lock portal kinda mechanic
    - execute that actually straight up kills people from 10%

    its just the fact that its the new class and most ppl are just fine playing their current mains. thus the class is filled with "bad" rerollers who cant utilize all the tools they got.
    Listing abilities in a vacuum is a horrendous way to argue that monks are good. Also some of those are incorrect anyways. Also saying its a L2P issue because the class has only been out so long... lol? In arena 3s Shaman, priest, rogue, priest, mage, hunter, pally, druid, dk, warrior, and lock > monks above 2.2k. You might say "lol ret sucks in 3s" I agree. However you have at least one very decent spec for 3s. All of those aforementioned classes have at least one spec that is better THAN MONKS ENTIRE CLASS IN 3V3 according to rep vs global rep.

    MW monks are 0.9% of the population above 2.2k while being 1.7% of the playerbase. Take a look at another healer for instance and you'll see with Resto shamans at 13% rep above 2.2k while only having 3.4% of the playerbase. WW is better in 3s though for sure, a whopping 1.7% above 2.2k while having 2.8% playerbase globally -_-

    Also when DKs came out and were OP everyone rolled one, at least as an alt. People don't mind rerolling for a good class (plz don't bring up the argument of they start at 1 vs 55, with heirlooms etc 1-55 FLYS by). Monks are one of the most fun classes I've ever played. However some of their fundamental mechanics need to be tweaked.

    Whats in store for them in 5.3 though! A revert of the RSK nerf and a nerf to Ring of Peace vs melee. Awesome.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Wootylicious View Post
    windwalkers have everything and then some.

    - disarm ( 2 if specced into )
    - stun ( 2 if specced into )
    - cloak of shadows
    - 90% shield wall
    - 20% shield wall with 20% extra hp
    - extra trinket
    - insane mobility and self freedoms
    - snare and a root
    - healing
    - blanket silence baked into interrupt
    - ranged instant cc
    - lock portal kinda mechanic
    - execute that actually straight up kills people from 10%

    its just the fact that its the new class and most ppl are just fine playing their current mains. thus the class is filled with "bad" rerollers who cant utilize all the tools they got.
    Listing every class mechanic can be done for any class, and will make it look stupid in comparison to others.

    Many top-level PvPers have said that Monks lack the survivability to stay alive vs a lot of comps. It's not uncommon for a Monk to use their disarm, ring of peace, portal, shieldwall and karma just to stay alive against the openers of some comps (mainly thug and tsg). They have 0 passive defenses and only 1 spell that can keep them alive against spike damage (karma), which can't be used while stunned (hence the need for an extra trinket) and can easily be bursted through.
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2013-05-02 at 02:51 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by lokatii View Post
    I beat a monk who's main has been 2700+ in 3s, he has a ton of tyrannical on his monk as well. I beat him with greater than 90% of my hp remaining on both my lock and my hunter.
    Not sure if serious. >.>

  14. #34
    WW monks were never a threat, we could do some pretty beefy dmg at points in 5.1 but our dmg nerfs took a chunk out of us. Yeah you can stack TeB in defense and then try for a kill, but any time with half a brain is going to see that coming and work to defend against it.

    It's a shame really, WW monk is a really fun class to play, but I quit WoW just because of how bad it was/is this season in a lot of areas (especially group pvp). If they fixed the class I would resub just to play it because I enjoyed it a ton. I leveled up my DK I put on the backburner after Cata before I quit WoW and was destroying people in pvp with half the gear of my WW monk, but DK pvp is very boring as frost and as Unholy I just dont like it as much.

  15. #35
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wootylicious View Post
    windwalkers have everything and then some.

    - disarm ( 2 if specced into )
    - stun ( 2 if specced into )
    - cloak of shadows
    - 90% shield wall
    - 20% shield wall with 20% extra hp
    - extra trinket
    - insane mobility and self freedoms
    - snare and a root
    - healing
    - blanket silence baked into interrupt
    - ranged instant cc
    - lock portal kinda mechanic
    - execute that actually straight up kills people from 10%

    its just the fact that its the new class and most ppl are just fine playing their current mains. thus the class is filled with "bad" rerollers who cant utilize all the tools they got.
    Meh, partly. I'd say I'm pretty damn good at it but theres some pretty glaring weaknesses (stuns kill you if you dont have Nimble Brew or Trinket)

    And... your list isn't even correct. A bunch of things wrong/not as good as they sound.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 06:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thelordymir View Post
    WW monks were never a threat, we could do some pretty beefy dmg at points in 5.1 but our dmg nerfs took a chunk out of us. Yeah you can stack TeB in defense and then try for a kill, but any time with half a brain is going to see that coming and work to defend against it.

    It's a shame really, WW monk is a really fun class to play, but I quit WoW just because of how bad it was/is this season in a lot of areas (especially group pvp). If they fixed the class I would resub just to play it because I enjoyed it a ton. I leveled up my DK I put on the backburner after Cata before I quit WoW and was destroying people in pvp with half the gear of my WW monk, but DK pvp is very boring as frost and as Unholy I just dont like it as much.
    Not THAT bad. Just learn to bait defensives with Xuen, keep trinket and nimble for during TeB and you can kill someone pretty quick.

  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    It's starting to feel like I'm outshined in almost every way by Warriors, Druids, Rogues, DKs and Paladins. Often it feels like all I have to get by are Touch of Karma and Ring of Peace (which looks to be being nerfed to being magnitudes inferior to its current state).

    So yeah, please state your class and spec and how you feel about fighting Windwalkers.
    I rarely see monks but when I do, there's only two types of WW monks that I encounter... bad WW monks that feel like they're tickling you and then there's the WW monks that rip your ass to shreds.

    I never know which one i'm going to get when I see one so I try to take them all seriously. I have several characters I do random BGs on in full PvP gear but some monks can keep me slowed, stay on my ass and just rip me up on any of my casters.

  17. #37
    I don't think WW Monks are bad at all. In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and say that their blanket silence on interrupt needs to be removed. You shouldn't be rewarded for being faked.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    (stuns kill you if you dont have Nimble Brew or Trinket)
    Trust me monks aren't the only one suffering from dieing in a stuns.

    OT: despite RoP nerf i think WW will be in a better spot next patch due to PvP power coefficient nerf being partly ofset for WWs with dmg buff and some top classes nerfs. It's around the same as for rets - if you pull through popular setups offensive cds you have a pretty good chance to overtake them, unfortunatly it's rather hard to do against competent tier 1 setups.

  19. #39
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    Listing every class mechanic can be done for any class, and will make it look stupid in comparison to others.

    Many top-level PvPers have said that Monks lack the survivability to stay alive vs a lot of comps. It's not uncommon for a Monk to use their disarm, ring of peace, portal, shieldwall and karma just to stay alive against the openers of some comps (mainly thug and tsg). They have 0 passive defenses and only 1 spell that can keep them alive against spike damage (karma), which can't be used while stunned (hence the need for an extra trinket) and can easily be bursted through.
    for comparison rogues die easiest in stuns, have zero passive defenses and have feint & joke combat readiness ( which actually takes time to build up to 50% reduction and only if your gettin hit by physical stuff ) to "keep" them alive against spike dmg. id trade combat readiness for touch of karma anyday. ofc comparing is bit stupid but u cant deny they dont have the toolset to work in arenas.

    nimble brew becoming mw spell too might actually make mw monks very strong in 3s if they adress the fact that they gotta stand still to push out healing.

  20. #40
    more range on disable would be nice. DAMPEN HARM a complete rework would be nice... So far ive had it on for 7 full durations vs fx ench/war, Feral/hunter, Hunter/rogue. W/o it proccing ONE charge. Imho that is just retarded, since its the closest we come to a defensive melee ability... Healing elixirs is jsut meh, trade Derps cd for 15% self heal. Id like to see healing elixirs being a ability for itself, unless they do something to dampen harm... (FX Melee dmg taken reduced by 30% the first 12 seconds of dampen harms duration).....
    Fist of fury is utterly USELESS vs pet combos, imagine going on a dk, while him and the hunter is on you. When u FoF you hit 3 targets, meaning u crit like 15k on maintarget.
    Maybe make FoF do 80% of normal dmg to maintarget(if multiple targets are present), and no dmg to the others, but still stunning in same cone range as it is now.

    WW monk is one of the most enjoyable classes for me, they just feel so soft.

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