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  1. #41
    As someone who mostly plays draenei I really don't care about either faction. Draenei aren't included in alliance lore. Draenei don't have any current reason for fighting the horde. I'm not sure where I'm supposed to get faction pride from. Is it from seeing draenei be used as quest fodder as part of a human army under human command in a human base with human themes doing human things?

    Beyond that the only time draenei really do things they're neutral. The bulk of their involvement in BC was neutral. In Wrath they joined the Argent Crusade because the alliance refused them. In Cata they were part of the Earthen Ring. And of course Velen's orders the last time we saw him was, "Go heal the Cataclysm and be examples that the mortal races of Azeroth should stand together against the darkness," or something similar. Next time draenei will get lore will be neutral for the Army of the Light. Why am I supposed to care about factions when draenei are essentially neutral? Why can't I go neutral and group with everyone like the NPC draenei do?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayb View Post
    Why isn't it a Nelf or a Human the one going crazy warmonger for a change? .
    Hell when do we get to attack an Alliance capital, this is the second Horde capital that gets attacked
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  3. #43
    I still have to laugh at "faction pride". Time to grow up, folks. People are identifying way too much with this stuff. It's scary. I can't fathom how people can be so discontented over lore stuff in the game, getting all worked up ... over, whatever, I can't even sum up in words what it's supposed to be about.

    There are some good and some not so good things in current Warcraft lore, but hey, it's just - a story. As a player, I'm kinda witnessing it, and being somewhat entertained. How can anyone get so irrationally emotional about it. Someone else is making up the stuff, man, you can't expect it to be tailored to your personal worldview and self-conception.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayhos View Post
    every video game has gamey aspects to it

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    I still have to laugh at "faction pride". Time to grow up, folks. People are identifying way too much with this stuff. It's scary. I can't fathom how people can be so discontented over lore stuff in the game, getting all worked up ... over, whatever, I can't even sum up in words what it's supposed to be about.

    There are some good and some not so good things in current Warcraft lore, but hey, it's just - a story. As a player, I'm kinda witnessing it, and being somewhat entertained. How can anyone get so irrationally emotional about it. Someone else is making up the stuff, man, you can't expect it to be tailored to your personal worldview and self-conception.
    Why are people identifying so much in a sports team, singer/performer, religion of a so called god, ...
    It's all the same. Who are you do deside what one should or shouldn't do?

  5. #45
    I got to admit I agree that the faction conflict is getting stale.

    What really bugs me is that Blizzard has now developed it into a major story arc where the Horde is going to once again lose a major war with the Alliance to be taught a lesson about aggression and corruption that was already taught in WC3.

    To me the factional conflict was always between two evenly matched superpowers, one side pushes the other pushes back, and so it goes.

    By having Orgrimmar the end raid of MOP Blizzard has written in a resolution to the factional conflict that ends in one faction literally being dominated. Many alliance players are already asking why they shouldn't crush the Horde once Orgrimmar is done with, and those players have a very good point. There is no reason why the alliance should show any kind of mercy or solidarity with the horde.

    With the devs already talking about the Alliance taking the lead as the unified victorious juggernaut next expansion, I seriously wonder where this leaves the Horde as a faction. They have been repeatedly beaten (second war internment camps, alliance outland expedition, now Orgrimmar) and splintered over the years (into 3 separate Horde's no less), is there anything left?
    Last edited by Briga; 2013-04-29 at 09:36 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Shengar View Post
    Why are people identifying so much in a sports team, singer/performer, religion of a so called god, ...
    It's all the same.
    Yep, all the same nonsense. However, the MMO lore and the God are two particularly unreal and non-existing examples of things to unreasonably identify and get involved with.

    Who are you do deside what one should or shouldn't do?
    Well I'm Jimmy Hellfire, nice to meet you here. I don't see where or how I'm deciding anything for anybody, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayhos View Post
    every video game has gamey aspects to it

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I liked back when the real conflict between the Alliance and the Horde was mostly background stuff, with quest lines about it here and there as you level up, but mostly it was the journey of your character.

    I think that the real issue is that there was barely any transition from being a 'background story' and went straight to 'in-your-face story'. It went from the 'story of your character's journey', to 'the war which your character participated'. Your character basically went from protagonist to support character in the time that it takes to snap your fingers.
    I think pretty much this. Even 1-60 content was revamped to be one linear story instead of just linear zone progression. The sense of discovering the random conflicts that involve each zone have vanshished.

    Also I think it's fair to say that the story would've probably played out better and everyone would be a lot happier if the roles were reversed and Varian was the mad king and Garrosh was the unifying leader for the horde proving his right to be warchief. Think about it, Alliance got shafted in Cata...thats just a fact. This entire xpac could've been about them. (i believe it was promised to be too right? When they announced the destruction of Theramore i believe it was said first the alliance would need to lose more to gain more? Something to that effect) Anduin could've been built up to be the redeemer and topple his father, and the years spent building up garroshs lore wouldn't be wasted. (Seriously. ..weve been following his progression since bc...Varian just decided to come home one day and be king again). They could have even said that the real Varian died and it was his evil twin imposter that lived? Does anyone even remember that storyline? Probably not. Because a lot of lore has been wasted, and Blizzard have written themselves into a hole.

    I played horde for 5 years, never touched an alliance toon once, and I miss having respect for my faction as well as the opposing faction.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    Yep, all the same nonsense. However, the MMO lore and the God are two particularly unreal and non-existing examples of things to unreasonably identify and get involved with.


    Well I'm Jimmy Hellfire, nice to meet you here. I don't see where or how I'm deciding anything for anybody, though.
    becouse focusing into an ingame faction/team makes things more intresting and exiting it also brings people together. Thinking your above it all and just a story well that makes the entire game alot more boring and kills social interaction instead. Just like LFR did with the social part of wow bam gone. No faction you like and want to compete for? Bam boring mmo ?. Faction pride alone is one of the reasons wow is so succesful but far from the only one.

  9. #49
    Stood in the Fire Schaapa's Avatar
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    Anduin is a brat. "Oh I believe the horde and the alliance is essentially good." Right, because you're such a person to judge the factions what with your disobedience and running away and mind controlling and what not.

    Wrathion says the war has to end, soon. Try telling that to your writers. Nobody will listen.

    It feels so lame not to have an effect on things.
    Surrounded by idiots

  10. #50
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    It would be lame if things were the same forever, it's good to stir shit up.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by GalacticSoap View Post
    Also I think it's fair to say that the story would've probably played out better and everyone would be a lot happier if the roles were reversed and Varian was the mad king and Garrosh was the unifying leader for the horde proving his right to be warchief. Think about it, Alliance got shafted in Cata...thats just a fact. This entire xpac could've been about them. (i believe it was promised to be too right? When they announced the destruction of Theramore i believe it was said first the alliance would need to lose more to gain more? Something to that effect) Anduin could've been built up to be the redeemer and topple his father, and the years spent building up garroshs lore wouldn't be wasted. (Seriously. ..weve been following his progression since bc...Varian just decided to come home one day and be king again). They could have even said that the real Varian died and it was his evil twin imposter that lived? Does anyone even remember that storyline? Probably not. Because a lot of lore has been wasted, and Blizzard have written themselves into a hole.

    this all the way ^
    'Words do not win wars. That is a tragedy.'

  12. #52
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    Indeed. Can you imagine if they cut out CRZ completely and let you have both factions from your own server in your:

    1. Guild.
    2. Party.
    3. Raid.
    4. Auction house.

    BAM! Suddenly there's (roughly) twice as many people to play with. People like me whose main raid guild died and now raid in the other faction would be able to actually get use out of our cross faction alts WRT to professions, etc.

    Hell, they could even leave everything else about the factions intact - still can't visit the "enemy" cities or the guards will get you, etc. They could even use phasing to enforce that somehow.
    They wouldn't even need to do phasing or whatnot, they just need to do a few things:
    1. Make the player understand he's a mercenary in a way, not the fairest member of his faction.
    2. Make the player understand the players playing the other faction are also mercenaries, so working together is not that unthinkable.
    3. Allow people from different factions to speak with eachother.
    4. Allow people from different factions to group together, do dungeons and raids together.
    5. Allow people from different factions to be in same guild.
    6. Make the auction house region wide. That means, if I put something here on the AH, everyone on every EU server will be able to buy it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 01:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Hell when do we get to attack an Alliance capital, this is the second Horde capital that gets attacked
    Theramore was an Alliance capital in lore. At least your capitals aren't craters after we attacked.

    You also visited Darnassus for the Divine Bell, so stop complaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by GalacticSoap View Post
    Also I think it's fair to say that the story would've probably played out better and everyone would be a lot happier if the roles were reversed and Varian was the mad king and Garrosh was the unifying leader for the horde proving his right to be warchief. Think about it, Alliance got shafted in Cata...thats just a fact. This entire xpac could've been about them. (i believe it was promised to be too right? When they announced the destruction of Theramore i believe it was said first the alliance would need to lose more to gain more? Something to that effect) Anduin could've been built up to be the redeemer and topple his father, and the years spent building up garroshs lore wouldn't be wasted. (Seriously. ..weve been following his progression since bc...Varian just decided to come home one day and be king again). They could have even said that the real Varian died and it was his evil twin imposter that lived? Does anyone even remember that storyline? Probably not. Because a lot of lore has been wasted, and Blizzard have written themselves into a hole.
    At this point, I have to agree.

  13. #53
    I am Murloc! Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    They wouldn't even need to do phasing or whatnot, they just need to do a few things:
    1. Make the player understand he's a mercenary in a way, not the fairest member of his faction.
    2. Make the player understand the players playing the other faction are also mercenaries, so working together is not that unthinkable.
    3. Allow people from different factions to speak with eachother.
    4. Allow people from different factions to group together, do dungeons and raids together.
    5. Allow people from different factions to be in same guild.
    6. Make the auction house region wide. That means, if I put something here on the AH, everyone on every EU server will be able to buy it.
    OI, that's not gonna work.
    1. Look's at his "of the horde" tittle, then on his tabard of conquest. I don't think im neutral after all.
    2. Look's at alliance players tittle, tabard and rbg mount. I doubt this guy is neutral either.
    3. This would be deligthfull. "Oh look someone seems to have problem leaving GY in WSG", "Guys guys guys why so bad ?" "Your mom is so fat the thought that "heavy support" means she will have more benefits.
    4."It looks like we have a little lamb lost in dark forest - guess who's gonna get vote kicked kid ?"
    5. My immersion just got kicked in a ballsack.
    6. Can you imagine how hard would be to sell anything ?

  14. #54
    Scarab Lord Azutael's Avatar
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    As a forsaken player, things are only getting better and better :P
    Well apart from the kor'kron in UC, and the hate for the forsaken from the orcs especially of course.

    But otherwise the horde races are not exactly getting along, and how they are going to resolve that I don't know. Can't expect that if garrosh is killed, redeemed or whatever. That everything will go back to normal.
    Perhaps we will see the horde fall even more apart ? Difficult to say until we see what happens in the siege of Orgrimmar.

  15. #55
    Theramore was an Alliance capital in lore. At least your capitals aren't craters after we attacked.

    You also visited Darnassus for the Divine Bell, so stop complaining.
    Theramore is not a capital its simply not powerful enough. One of the reasons why Jaina was always diplomatic is because Theramore was vulnerable on the Horde's doorstep. She wilfully committed to the war in Cata (taurajo and barrens/durotar advances)and it turned out badly for her.

    Visiting Darnassus sneaking around like a rat is hardly an attack on a capital. Alliance stormed into Undercity in force behind king chin and is going to do the same in Orgrimmar again.

  16. #56
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    OI, that's not gonna work.
    1. Look's at his "of the horde" tittle, then on his tabard of conquest. I don't think im neutral after all.
    2. Look's at alliance players tittle, tabard and rbg mount. I doubt this guy is neutral either.
    3. This would be deligthfull. "Oh look someone seems to have problem leaving GY in WSG", "Guys guys guys why so bad ?" "Your mom is so fat the thought that "heavy support" means she will have more benefits.
    4."It looks like we have a little lamb lost in dark forest - guess who's gonna get vote kicked kid ?"
    5. My immersion just got kicked in a ballsack.
    6. Can you imagine how hard would be to sell anything ?
    1. You're a mercenary, you work for who pays you best, if the Horde is that, good for you. Look at this Argent, Cenarion, Earthen Ring, etc tabards I have here and all the titles associated with them to support my view.
    2. I wonder why am I working with orcs from the Earthen Ring... guess I'm a Horde night elf.
    3. Disabled in battlegrounds and arenas. Enabled in the world though. If Rift players can take being able to speak with one another cross faction, so can WoW players.
    4. The guy doing the worst dps and sitting in fire, the healer who doesn't heal, the tank who dies too easily.
    5. Because there aren't mercenary factions out there, right?
    6. It would be quite easy, works in Guild Wars 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    Theramore is not a capital its simply not powerful enough. One of the reasons why Jaina was always diplomatic is because Theramore was vulnerable on the Horde's doorstep. She wilfully committed to the war in Cata (taurajo and barrens/durotar advances)and it turned out badly for her.

    Visiting Darnassus sneaking around like a rat is hardly an attack on a capital. Alliance stormed into Undercity in force behind king chin and is going to do the same in Orgrimmar again.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Theramore
    "Theramore Isle (a.k.a. Theramore Keep or simply Theramore) was a human city[3] located in a rocky island east of Dustwallow Marsh, and was the capital of the kingdom of the same name."

    Theramore was a capital. Theramore was never vulnerable, and this isn't the reason Jaina was diplomatic. Jaina was diplomatic because she believed in Horde-Alliance peace. Theramore itself is a city sitting on an island in the middle of the swamp, it has a great defenses by land, and has a harbour with ships in it, well... had. So great defenses by sea. In fact, Garrosh needed the equivalent of a nuke to get rid of it.

    True on Undercity, though you're storming Orgrimmar too.

  17. #57
    I am Murloc! Arrashi's Avatar
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    I think that the diffrence is that i dont remeber killing 200k members of either argent crusade or cenarion circle. My achievments tab hovewer claims that i indeed murdered over 200k of alliance citizens and this may infact cause a little problems while interacting with them.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    I get the factions are great for flavour, but not being able to talk with the other faction, just being players you kill or outright ignore and walk past just makes the other faction feel like a void in your experience thats "not for you".
    Isn't that the whole point? I think it's easily the best part of the game.

  19. #59
    Heh. I never liked the Horde/Alliance conflict.

    I rather we build awesome stuff than nuke each other into the stone age.

    The kind of combat I like is the "sporting" kind. Like "hunting" and "brawling". You know, without the all the drama and shit.

    Look at Monster Hunter. It has practically zero story worth a damn. You hunt ... because you are a hunter. You can be proud of your skill as a hunter. No guilt.

    Or a brawl where it's basically you fight each other than go home at the end of the day and have an ale bragging about your battles. Again, no guilt or "moral dilemmas".

  20. #60
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I think that the diffrence is that i dont remeber killing 200k members of either argent crusade or cenarion circle. My achievments tab hovewer claims that i indeed murdered over 200k of alliance citizens and this may infact cause a little problems while interacting with them.
    Funny you say that, since I killed countless goblins just to get an admiral hat yet the goblins love me thanks to me freeing one single goblin over and over and donating cloth (which they probably used to take care of the wounded from my attacks.

    Also, it may cause a problem when interacting with npcs. Which is why Alliance npcs won't love you, and will still attack you on sight. But why would it create problems when dealing with mercenaries that are simply of races that form the Alliance? I mean, Thrall did kill humans, he even did it before getting to the Maelstrom, yet my night elf had no problem dealing with him... sure, you might say the future of the world was at stake... but in Hyjal when his essence was split in 4, it wasn't anymore so much as nobody knew he can use the Demon Soul and whatnot.
    What about the Scryers in Shattrath? They killed draenei, the draenei say that's why they're unhappy... yet you can join them even as a draenei! You can join the Aldor as an orc even after having carried genocide on their race a few years back.

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