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  1. #1
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    I'm just fed up with horde and alliance

    Yus. I've come to the realization that, while theres still that feeling I have about still thinking of the horde as my faction, I've come to realize its based upon what I use to like about the horde, and in a strange way, what I respected about the alliance.
    From WC3 to Wrath days, I actually enjoyed the faction conflict, the sense of pride in my own faction, but also that sense of balance with the other. And lets be honest here, i think many of us did as well.

    So many threads these days is spoken out from the alliance at the dissatisfaction with the current lore, and losing there own sense of faction identity. Likewise, as horde, I don't feel any sense of pride in my faction anymore given all the current crap its gone though under Garrosh. From wc3 to wrath days, the horde felt like a unified group of misfits finding a common ground, and the odd quirks in there races didn't matter, the real feel of the faction came from its honor to each other.

    Nowadays, the horde is split apart and the racial sense of togetherness has eroded, orcs and trolls/tauren are no longer friends but fighting one another. And the alliance keeps wanting to feel any sense of faction pride it once use to feel, but never gets.

    And all this steamed from cataclysm, when the world was remade and the fundemental changes made to the horde and alliance caused these changes, you know the ones, those that people thought were so cool because they shook up the status-quo? Its not done you any good now has it?

    Infact the only ones who have gotten anything out of any of this are those who just like to see things burn and bad shit happening.

    Am I the only one that wishes cataclysm never happened, and all this misplaced storytelling was cast off? I've never felt more detached from the faction i use to love playing as, and I don't see any faction pride left even on the other side of the fence.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 12:00 AM ----------

    Edit: Infact the only satisfaction I've had storywise in mists has come from the pandaren, and not the faction based sides, just those in pandaria. I see the new battleground they made set in valley of the four winds, and instead of wooting for faction pride, all I think is 'oh god, what are these dumb fu**s doing now?'
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  2. #2
    Yeah personally the factions thing just feels more and more like something from a 90's mmo. I get the factions are great for flavour, but not being able to talk with the other faction, just being players you kill or outright ignore and walk past just makes the other faction feel like a void in your experience thats "not for you".

    Personally at this point i play wow for the new areas to explore in an expansion and the raids, as a mostly alliance player i get why everyones trying to depose garrosh, but i dont see a horde player and think "theres the enemy". What if its a tauren resto druid? is this some abomination my dwarf paladin would never do anything but try to murder?

    Frankly the events of ulduar, halls of origionation, the throne of thunder and the sunwell have shown that after all our characters have been through we know theres far bigger problems to deal with.

    at the end of the day the communication is the problem both as a gameplay mechanic and in story. The orcs need lumber and cut down trees right? well shouldnt the gardians of the woods try and teach them about replanting trees for future lumber or something? nope because red is dead and vice versa. Its stupid even from a lore perspective. these people shouldnt like each other, but after all they have been through they know there are literal demons who want nothing more than to enslave them all and make their world burn. factions are so beneath that.

  3. #3
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Its not even so much the duelaity between the factions. Back before cataclysm, I felt that sense of pride and even enjoy it. And I think did so many others. You know on my old server, which was nicely populated, as horde we often dealt with faction raids in orgrimmar or undercity 3-4 times a week, full on pvp raids fighting to stop the alliance trying to kill faction leaders. and in retort horde did the same back in stormwind or darnassus or ironforge, and I can tell you it felt like people were proud of there faction and why they were fighting there.

    I haven't seen a single raid on orgrimmar thoughout cataclysm, and if any does occur, i don't see it happening in mists either. People don't want to raid cities anymore, and I think its just off the faction people don't care about faction pride or having that overall fun feel of fighting one another in big world pvp brawls.

    Neither horde or alliance has felt the same in the last 4 years, and I blame it on a combination of story and gameplay mechanics.
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  4. #4
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Agreed OP. I liked the factions conflict while it was kept in the background, like some cover operation here and there you stopped, some random village you burned and acted like nothing happened etc. It was like a Cold War, with NATO and the Warsaw Pact poking one another in 3rd world countries so they wouldn't do it directly to not risk a war. That was interesting. The moment they brought it as a full war, it wasn't so enjoyable anymore.

    I still remember going with Varian to the Undercity and when he said "that's it, it's war now" I was like "oh shut up, you're not my king". And now... he's the king of night elves too because of this war.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Sky High's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Its not even so much the duelaity between the factions. Back before cataclysm, I felt that sense of pride and even enjoy it. And I think did so many others. You know on my old server, which was nicely populated, as horde we often dealt with faction raids in orgrimmar or undercity 3-4 times a week, full on pvp raids fighting to stop the alliance trying to kill faction leaders. and in retort horde did the same back in stormwind or darnassus or ironforge, and I can tell you it felt like people were proud of there faction and why they were fighting there.

    I haven't seen a single raid on orgrimmar thoughout cataclysm, and if any does occur, i don't see it happening in mists either. People don't want to raid cities anymore, and I think its just off the faction people don't care about faction pride or having that overall fun feel of fighting one another in big world pvp brawls.

    Neither horde or alliance has felt the same in the last 4 years, and I blame it on a combination of story and gameplay mechanics.
    I think it has more to do with everyone getting the mount, and after they did, whats the point aside from some honor? on my old server (stormscale) there where raids by both Allies and horde on the faction capitals happening all the time in Wrath and on through Cata. but i never felt it went beyond getting the mount and taking a dump on the opposing faction.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Frankly the events of ulduar, halls of origionation, the throne of thunder and the sunwell have shown that after all our characters have been through we know theres far bigger problems to deal with.

    at the end of the day the communication is the problem both as a gameplay mechanic and in story. The orcs need lumber and cut down trees right? well shouldnt the gardians of the woods try and teach them about replanting trees for future lumber or something? nope because red is dead and vice versa. Its stupid even from a lore perspective. these people shouldnt like each other, but after all they have been through they know there are literal demons who want nothing more than to enslave them all and make their world burn. factions are so beneath that.
    First up, after the events of Warcraft 3, all the races should have known better since the Legion had just about conquered the world. Archimonde was close, very close to winning the fight, but they beat him together, then went back to their cold war and ignored the Scourge and knew Sargeras was still out there with the Burning Legion. That was the whole purpose of the Argent Dawn, to unite and fight the threats against the world.

    As for the second, don't make fun of Blizzard's plot holes. The Night Elves don't like the Orcs because they clear-cut forests, but they're super cool with the humans who are doing the same in Elywnn Forest, and the Dwarves and Gnomes who exploit their own lands and blow nature up.

    You have to blame the people that are always saying "But it's WARcraft, we want WAR.".

  7. #7
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    now before anyone throws this in, I will say the one good thing that came out of the current plot in wow has been seeing some characters getting development who didn't before (Vol'jin, Varian, Anduin, Jaina, Lor'themar, Rommath, Aethas), but despite that being the only plus in all this, it doesn't make up for that lack of faith in either of our factions. If anything, all it would get is a very mild and uncaring 'woot' escaping peoples breath. 'oh look, jaina did something... woot..'

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 12:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainArlong View Post

    You have to blame the people that are always saying "But it's WARcraft, we want WAR.".
    Oh I DO blame those people. But the problem is blizzard listened to those people, just like they listened to people who complained about how easy wrath content felt like, so they made cataclysm content hardcore, and admitted they shouldn't have done that just because of what a minority had said. The same should also go for this group you mentioned, the 'this is WARRRcraft' group.
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  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Feral Camel's Avatar
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    I've got to disagree with you Trassk. I love the concept of the factions being at war. I also think its been pretty handled well. Quest lines like the Southern Barrens are a great example of this.

    As for faction pride. I can't really comment. Through my experience, the only group to ever show pride has been the Horde, and I've always though those that do go a bit over the top.

  9. #9
    I am also tired of the pointless war. I liked how it was pre-War.
    A cold-war state, with the factions teaming up against the big bad.

    Now they blow each other up while trying to fight the big bad at the same time, and it gets unrealistic.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Yus. I've come to the realization that, while theres still that feeling I have about still thinking of the horde as my faction, I've come to realize its based upon what I use to like about the horde, and in a strange way, what I respected about the alliance.
    From WC3 to Wrath days, I actually enjoyed the faction conflict, the sense of pride in my own faction, but also that sense of balance with the other. And lets be honest here, i think many of us did as well.

    So many threads these days is spoken out from the alliance at the dissatisfaction with the current lore, and losing there own sense of faction identity. Likewise, as horde, I don't feel any sense of pride in my faction anymore given all the current crap its gone though under Garrosh. From wc3 to wrath days, the horde felt like a unified group of misfits finding a common ground, and the odd quirks in there races didn't matter, the real feel of the faction came from its honor to each other.

    Nowadays, the horde is split apart and the racial sense of togetherness has eroded, orcs and trolls/tauren are no longer friends but fighting one another. And the alliance keeps wanting to feel any sense of faction pride it once use to feel, but never gets.

    And all this steamed from cataclysm, when the world was remade and the fundemental changes made to the horde and alliance caused these changes, you know the ones, those that people thought were so cool because they shook up the status-quo? Its not done you any good now has it?

    Infact the only ones who have gotten anything out of any of this are those who just like to see things burn and bad shit happening.

    Am I the only one that wishes cataclysm never happened, and all this misplaced storytelling was cast off? I've never felt more detached from the faction i use to love playing as, and I don't see any faction pride left even on the other side of the fence.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 12:00 AM ----------

    Edit: Infact the only satisfaction I've had storywise in mists has come from the pandaren, and not the faction based sides, just those in pandaria. I see the new battleground they made set in valley of the four winds, and instead of wooting for faction pride, all I think is 'oh god, what are these dumb fu**s doing now?'
    People seriously need to stop treating Horde and Alliance as anything more than fiction. It is just a video game and the factions exist mostly as a game play mechanic and in video games mechanics trumps lore nearly every time. Want great storytelling that is well written? Go read a book. Stop trying to get best selling quality work out of a video game because it just flat out isn't going to happen.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    People seriously need to stop treating Horde and Alliance as anything more than fiction. It is just a video game and the factions exist mostly as a game play mechanic and in video games mechanics trumps lore nearly every time. Want great storytelling that is well written? Go read a book. Stop trying to get best selling quality work out of a video game because it just flat out isn't going to happen.
    So outside bg's where exactly does this faction mechanic serve a purpose now? world pvp? maybe if it was 2004. nowadays? not so much.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord Damsbo's Avatar
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    Liking the "none faction bash" perspective OP.. But yeah; I think Theramore was supposed to bring back the unity of a faction - either way, that didn't do it for me.. I cant say I would do a better job myself, but I just need something to make me go "Wrraaar dey tok our jeebs". You know?
    I like juice

  13. #13
    Well they have favored horde all of cata more or less. And one of the big tie ins for MoP is the stuff with g-rash gettin overthrown or something so for a whole content patch it will be focused on horde again and their leadership blah blah blah.

    I will never forgive them for messing up the coolest leader in the game (imo) in the lamest way ever. Poor old Magni Bronzebeard It was more of less like "oh hes turned to stone next topic"

    Not sure how the horde side quests were but LK did seem to favor alliance more with tirion but it was based on another continent not on home turf.
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  14. #14
    Faction conflict pre-Cata? For me that was always provided by the players via world PvP (Thing of the past)
    I don't know, I suppose I'd have to think on it to really remember what the story was like before the Wrathgate... (Battle for the Undercity, that is).

    I mean, dwarven diggers in Mulgore, orcs vs. night elves in Ashenvale, few orcs in Redridge... Classic wasn't direct conflict. Those were proxy conflicts at best, outside Ashenvale.
    Outland was Thrall and Rexxar-centric Horde side, Alliance side must've been asleep with Khadgar in Shatt 'cause I can't remember.
    Wrath... Yeah that's when they started upping Varian to make the Alliance actually have somebody more important because they weren't doing anything with Tyrande, Magni, or Jaina that's for sure!
    Last edited by Shibboleths; 2013-04-29 at 02:20 AM.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
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    I like it and the fact that you are feeling these emotion makes me like it even more. That's story telling. Also why I have over time gain some Horde pride. For me its all ways been sin'dorei pride.

    So yes I love that Blizzard can make people feel like this.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    I will never forgive them for messing up the coolest leader in the game (imo) in the lamest way ever. Poor old Magni Bronzebeard It was more of less like "oh hes turned to stone next topic"
    Yeah this still bugs me, the dude made the ashbringer for petes sake and what happens to the guy? one day hes in ironforge saying stuff like "strength, honour, these i see in you" and the next hes a diamond statue in a perpetual scream and for people who didnt already they have to go read the shattering to find out how the dwarfs lost their king.
    That and uldum are the most nerdrage worthy copouts they've done in my opinion.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    Indeed. Can you imagine if they cut out CRZ completely and let you have both factions from your own server in your:

    1. Guild.
    2. Party.
    3. Raid.
    4. Auction house.

    BAM! Suddenly there's (roughly) twice as many people to play with. People like me whose main raid guild died and now raid in the other faction would be able to actually get use out of our cross faction alts WRT to professions, etc.

    Hell, they could even leave everything else about the factions intact - still can't visit the "enemy" cities or the guards will get you, etc. They could even use phasing to enforce that somehow.

  18. #18
    I am Murloc! prwraith's Avatar
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    What's funny is both alliance and horde have the same general lack of agenda.

    The writing in wow is pretty much herpderp I'm going to fight this guy because he's green, and I'm gonna fight this guy cuz he's white.

    Honestly they point it out all the time in game. WC3 They work together. WOTLK they work together. Pandaria they work together.

    The writers are basically saying, yea they're better together but we're gonna make em fight because uhh we have no freaking clue what else to do.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solzan Nemesis View Post
    I like it and the fact that you are feeling these emotion makes me like it even more. That's story telling. Also why I have over time gain some Horde pride. For me its all ways been sin'dorei pride.

    So yes I love that Blizzard can make people feel like this.
    All I ever felt about the factions was hatred. 7-8 years of being ganked by horde. Then being "forced" (alliance guild died, horde guild raids still and I have a spot) to play horde this expansion.

    Let's see what else: Bolvar Fordragon is to Alliance as Thrall is to the Horde - original faction leaders, etc. Blizzard shat all over Bolvar, Thrall gets to go have kids, marry his true love, yadda yadda yadda. Finally, a blizzard employee calls alliance players... well.. you know what he called us. Sure, he apologized, but it stuck with me. This is how the horde has always treated me, this is how blizzard has treated me.

    So. Pride? Nope. They can all burn for all I care.

  20. #20
    Brewmaster dacoolist's Avatar
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    Do what I do. Make a toon on both factions: Filthy Alliance, and Horde - Baby!

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