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  1. #1

    Regarding LFR and hours wasted.

    Before I start I'd like to say this isn't a QQ thread about the LFR loot system or any such thing.

    I was just thinking that if LFR is designed for (in the words of Blizz) "people who want to see content they normally would not have access to" then why could they not just keep the item level of the gear that drops there low enough that normal mode raiders don't feel like they HAVE to do LFR every week in order to make best use of their character?

    I kind of understand having the 476 ilvl gear from MsV and even to a certain extent the 483 from HoF and TOES as this provides that initial stepping stone from HCs to Normal mode that some would require. But after that any half decent guild should be able to gear their raiders up through the previous tier and valour gear surely?

    Once again this isn't a thread to moan about the loot system I get that RNG is RNG, it's just an idea I'd like to get other's thoughts on.

  2. #2
    The item level is fine. The gap between what you can do in LFR gear vs Normal vs Heroic (Thunderforged) is already great.

    The system is fine.

  3. #3
    why does it even matter normal mode raiders are in LFR? this only increases the chance your LFR group will succeed and not wipe.

  4. #4
    The system is most certainly not fine. Seeing as it lacks Heroic Dungeons.
    Shahad , Kevkul , Shaithan
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  5. #5
    Normal ToT isn't balanced around LFR ToT/heroic ToES gear levels.

    You don't need to be full ToT LFR geared to succeed in normal ToT. Executing mechanics better will get you further than ~6 ilevels.

  6. #6
    So am i really the only normal mode raider who would rather not have to spend another 2 to 3 hours every wednesday in LFR? It's mind numbing even when it goes smooth.

  7. #7
    Blizzard can't do a lot about the way people feel. No one should have to do LFR for normals. If you're really struggling that hard, it's more likely a player issue (not necessarily the individual, but can be the group) than it is whatever throughput that could be gotten from having LFR gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    So am i really the only normal mode raider who would rather not have to spend another 2 to 3 hours every wednesday in LFR? It's mind numbing even when it goes smooth.
    So don't. It's as simple as that.

  8. #8
    High Overlord cynsacat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    But after that any half decent guild should be able to gear their raiders up through the previous tier and valour gear surely?
    The problem I see with this mode of thinking... Is that you're still at the mercy of drops. If you don't get the right drops to gear that character up, then you have to wait for another week, and then another, and so on. As an individual character, that might be acceptable; however, if you're a guild looking to gear up a new raider or a new class/role to fill a spot or whatever, as stated, then that can be problematic. So LFR providing viable gear is just another chance to make that process a little more forgiving. It'd be pretty crappy if nine people were waiting for one person to get geared up for six (random number) weeks.

  9. #9
    Of course not I understand that. But as a raider who likes to try and give myself every advantage I can if 502 LFR items exist then I'm going to try to get them. But however if the ToT LFR gear was scaled to an ilvl of say 490 or something I could spend those 3 hours doing something less frustrating

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    Of course not I understand that. But as a raider who likes to try and give myself every advantage I can if 502 LFR items exist then I'm going to try to get them. But however if the ToT LFR gear was scaled to an ilvl of say 490 or something I could spend those 3 hours doing something less frustrating
    that's called an option, blizzard are there to give you options, not pigeon hole every upgrade into only 1 tiny area of the game that always requires 9/24 others to do anything.

    5.3 adds heroic scenarios, the option to try your luck at an ilvl 516 drop. keyword = OPTION.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by cynsacat View Post
    The problem I see with this mode of thinking... Is that you're still at the mercy of drops. If you don't get the right drops to gear that character up, then you have to wait for another week, and then another, and so on. As an individual character, that might be acceptable; however, if you're a guild looking to gear up a new raider or a new class/role to fill a spot or whatever, as stated, then that can be problematic. So LFR providing viable gear is just another chance to make that process a little more forgiving. It'd be pretty crappy if nine people were waiting for one person to get geared up for six (random number) weeks.
    So in which case the whole "LFR is not to gear up but to see content" is invalid?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 02:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    that's called an option, blizzard are there to give you options, not pigeon hole every upgrade into only 1 tiny area of the game that always requires 9/24 others to do anything.

    5.3 adds heroic scenarios, the option to try your luck at an ilvl 516 drop. keyword = OPTION.
    It's not an option if it's an upgrade, bud.

  12. #12
    High Overlord cynsacat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    Of course not I understand that. But as a raider who likes to try and give myself every advantage I can if 502 LFR items exist then I'm going to try to get them. But however if the ToT LFR gear was scaled to an ilvl of say 490 or something I could spend those 3 hours doing something less frustrating
    Okay, granted. That's a fair point. So you're just talking about scaling the LFR of the next tier down to the same (or similar) ilvl as the previous tier... In this case, I think there are several different factors at work, like heroic ilvl gear and the item upgrade system via valor. I think they were intending LFR gear to at least be remotely viable to raiders early on, which seems to be what's troubling you... There's not much that I can say for that, other than reinforcing the idea that marginal upgrades aren't really all that mandatory unless you're borderline on a boss (in which case the headache of LFR may be worth the reward) or doing heroic modes (to the same end).

    Not very comforting, I realize. But maybe you're a little TOO ilvl focused if neither of the above scenarios is true.

    Also, just because seeing content is the INTENDED use, it doesn't mean there aren't peripheral uses, as well. It can be helpful without that being its sole purpose or reason for creation.
    Last edited by cynsacat; 2013-04-29 at 01:37 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post

    It's not an option if it's an upgrade, bud.
    unless you are pushing for world top 50, it pretty much is optional, if you haven't finished and cleared heroic lei shen, going balls to the wall for every tiny upgrade isn't worth it because you might as well just add in another 2-3 raid days which would give you far more gear and progress. if you need LFR upgrades you are very casual and i doubt you're really playing so hardcore you must farm like crazy.

    if you don't have time for those 2-3 raid days, you don't have time to be sitting in LFR for 3 hours and running a heroic scenario every day....see where i'm going if you're going to spend more and more time farming gear...just make it normal mode raiding more time spent raiding will get your raid group far more progress and gear than hours and hours of LFR.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by cynsacat View Post
    Okay, granted. That's a fair point. So you're just talking about scaling the LFR of the next tier down to the same (or similar) ilvl as the previous tier... In this case, I think there are several different factors at work, like heroic ilvl gear and the item upgrade system via valor. I think they were intending LFR gear to at least be remotely viable to raiders early on, which seems to be what's troubling you... There's not much that I can say for that, other than reinforcing the idea that marginal upgrades aren't really all that mandatory unless you're borderline on a boss (in which case the headache of LFR may be worth the reward) or doing heroic modes (to the same end).

    Not very comforting, I realize. But maybe you're a little TOO ilvl focused if neither of the above scenarios is true.
    Yeah I think you're probably right that marginal upgrades aren't that mandatory but an upgrade is still an upgrade all the same.

    I appreciate the amicable discourse all the same

    Was an idea I thought i'd put out there and it's nice that someone at least can debate and discuss rationally

  15. #15
    If you are a "normal mode raider" there is simply no reason for you to feel "forced" to run LFR. You are not pushing top 100 kills on bosses, and not to mention you should already have better gear from normal mode HoF/ToES (504 upgraded) and normal ToT.

    I do LFR on characters that are not guaranteed to get even a normal raid for ToT every week, just to increase the chance of someone accepting them into one sooner or later, and on my main for the occasional offspec loot and because I enjoy doing LFR with a few guildies a lot more than spamming heroic dungeons or scenarios.
    Last edited by turskanaattori; 2013-04-29 at 01:50 AM.

  16. #16
    High Overlord cynsacat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    Yeah I think you're probably right that marginal upgrades aren't that mandatory but an upgrade is still an upgrade all the same.

    I appreciate the amicable discourse all the same

    Was an idea I thought i'd put out there and it's nice that someone at least can debate and discuss rationally
    Hehe, I totally understand. I wrestle with the same thing here and there; LFR can be brutal (and not just for the wipes but for the rampant negativity and immaturity in it). But as a normal-mode raider, I have just resigned myself to ONLY doing LFR when I really feel up to it... Or if my raid team is really struggling to squeak by in a progression fight. ^.^ It's a happy balance.

    It's good that you're so motivated to upgrade, though! It shows dedication. Good on you.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turskanaattori View Post
    If you are a "normal mode raider" there is simply no reason for you to feel "forced" to run LFR. You are not pushing top 100 kills on bosses, and not to mention you should already have better gear from normal mode HoF/ToES (504 upgraded) and normal ToT.

    I do LFR on characters that are not guaranteed to get even a normal raid for ToT every week, and on my main for the occasional offspec loot and because I enjoy doing LFR with a few guildies a lot more than spamming heroic dungeons or scenarios.
    i do lfr on my main only for peices that come from bosses my guild hanst killed yet since were progressing on quon atm and secrets i had better luck with them in lfr but this week got 0/12 and i lack 4

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by turskanaattori View Post
    If you are a "normal mode raider" there is simply no reason for you to feel "forced" to run LFR. You are not pushing top 100 kills on bosses, and not to mention you should already have better gear from normal mode HoF/ToES (504 upgraded) and normal ToT.

    I do LFR on characters that are not guaranteed to get even a normal raid for ToT every week, and on my main for the occasional offspec loot and because I enjoy doing LFR with a few guildies a lot more than spamming heroic dungeons or scenarios.
    I just can't agree. If an item has better stats then I'm going to want that item. Certain LFR trinkets are going to be better than previous tier normal trinkets. Is wrong that I should want those items if they're available?

    Maybe I'm just of a different mindset then. Although my original point still stands that if Blizz consider LFR "a chance to see content and not a means to gear up" which is something I see here ALOT.

    Anyways it's been interesting to see peoples replies

    Back to skulking around for another 5 months

  19. #19
    As a normal causal raider I decided 1 month into 5.2 that i was never running LFR again. When my guild killed majordomo we stayed 30 mins past raid end time so we could experience Ragnaros. At the end of 5.1 we still hadn't cleared Terrace of the Endless Spring. When 5.2 hit we didn't use Terrace(even with the nerfs) to gear up. Our raid was so sick of terrace from LFR we opted to gear up through valor, Trash drops and Jin. I decided Mop was my last expansion at the end of Cata. I love wow, just ready to move in a different direction. LFR ruined Madness of Deathwing for me and i won't allow it to ruin Garrosh. I won't experience my last wow raid boss in some water downed, wait until we have 10 stacks of determination(Or fail buff as i like to call it), LFR Raid group.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    The item level of the Lfr gear is already too low. I run throne of thunder every week for valor; It'd be nice if there was some upgrades in the instance.

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