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  1. #1
    The Patient Nario64's Avatar
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    No love for the hunter in 5 mans...

    (Sorry if this thread is up somewhere else, I tried looking for one)

    I just dinged 86 and haven't really played in over a year. I don't enjoy questing anymore so I've been leveling through the dungeon finder and running around exploring in Pandaria.

    Now... usually if I just go brain dead in a 5 man and auto shoot all the trash and boss, everyone is content and a run goes normally. Now if I actually do what I do best and play a hunter the way it's always meant to be played, I get kicked from the group, and no one says a word...

    My last group I was playing like the good old days, perfect dps rotations, MD'ing the tank on every pull, sometimes pulling a group slightly before the tank gets there but it's not like he wasn't going to pull them in 2 seconds anyways. I don't pull anything that wasn't expected to be pulled but I'm guessing because I'm taking the actual pull away from the tank that he got butt-hurt?


    I have read a couple other posts about issues with casuals like non-gemming (which may also have something to do with it, I didn't gem my level 85 LFR gear because I knew I'd be replacing them in Pandaria shortly), ninja pulling hunters, and such. I didn't feel like it was ninja pulling but I guess that's how they saw it.


    The example: In that 5 man where you head left first, kill the water boss that in phase two just twirls around. After that first water boss I run (with the help of rocket boots) ahead down the hall to get ready for the next trash. I set fire and ice and snake traps infront of it, waiting for everyone. Our tank is a DK. Everyone gathers, I MD the tank, he starts to walk forward so I MultiShot the group, making them walk the 1 yard into my trap. We kill the pack, tank runs towards the next pack, I MD and shoot just as the tank gets there... no issues yet in my book... I'm dpsing and.... Loadscreen....
    I could add that I didn't stand with the group on the water boss (but didn't get hit by anything) and MD'd the water spirits to the tank as they spawned. That might have annoyed him too.


    I miss the good old days where you actually had to work with people, ASK them to do something or not do something, rather than kick and replace. Remember when you had to run to a dungeon? People didn't kick people during those unless it was a major hindrance, it helped people learn to work together.


    Yes this is a bit of a rant, but it's been bugging me.

  2. #2
    One tip: never pull instead of the tank.

    You might be doing the right thing with the MD and all that, but a lot of tanks go rampaging crazy if you do "ninja pull".
    Especially if you are a hunter, since the eternally existing (and kinda valid) stereotype of a "HunTARD" is always looming above everyone who parties with a hunter.

    So just sit yo tight lil hunter ass behind and wait for the tank to do his pull, then go roxxor on the dps charts.

  3. #3
    The Patient Nario64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    One tip: never pull instead of the tank.

    You might be doing the right thing with the MD and all that, but a lot of tanks go rampaging crazy if you do "ninja pull".
    Especially if you are a hunter, since the eternally existing (and kinda valid) stereotype of a "HunTARD" is always looming above everyone who parties with a hunter.

    So just sit yo tight lil hunter ass behind and wait for the tank to do his pull, then go roxxor on the dps charts.
    I'm currently running no mods so I can't tell what my dps is at, I just knew I had my best rotation going that run so I knew I was doing the best I could. But I miss the days when I ice trapped 2 mobs, slept another, and MD'd the last 2 to the tank, and that was my job.

    If I pull as the tank is running towards a group I don't consider that as a ninja pull... but maybe they do. It just frustrates me how any adaptation to the group's dynamic is gone. There's only 1 way to do a 5 man run these days, any way different is frowned upon. Even if it's more efficient.

  4. #4
    Not sure why this required a topic. If people made topics every time they got kicked from a group for doing something dumb, these forums would overload and die.

    And yeah, it isn't your place to pull for the tank unless the tank says 'hey, MD those to me' or something. Imagine you're sitting somewhere, eating, and someone runs over and shoves more food in your mouth as if to say 'HEY HERE EAT THIS TOO LOLZ' - that is pretty much what you're doing when you rush ahead and pull. Tanks consider many things when pulling - availability of spells, AOE cooldowns, healer's mana, damage taken, etc etc etc. You, as a hunter, are not in a position to speak for any of those on a tank's behalf. Your job is to kill what the tank pulls, not pull or otherwise try and dictate the pace/how much the tank should be doing/etc.

    So, no the tank wasn't being 'butthurt' - he/she was probably tired of ending up in yet another dungeon with someone trying to do their job for them. Don't like getting kicked? Don't do what you did. Because more often than not, you're either going to piss off the tank or the healer, because you're giving them more to deal with as well.

    Edit: it was never part of the group's 'dynamic' to rush off and pull more crap for a tank to deal with. I did that in vanilla, thinking I was being a helpful little hunter, and got bitched at for it then. Haven't done it since unless I was asked/told to MD something.

    TLDR: let tanks go at their own pace and worry about doing the job you signed up for: killing stuff.
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2013-04-29 at 03:04 PM.

  5. #5
    I usually do 50-60% of total dmg in dungeons. MD pulling and all. Yet to get kicked for it. I guess i was just lucky.

    If the tank is actually playing (not eating, watching TV, sending E-mails) he should be happy that you help him chain pull. All you have to do is not cross the line of his capabilities and healer capabilities on harder pulls and give them some time to breathe.

  6. #6
    Problem: Lack of communication.

    I would have done the same as you on my hunter, with a little difference, I would have asked / whispered the tank if he /she / it is ok with it, and would not have done all the MD-Pulling if Tank diagreed with it! That is all.
    Going to McDonalds for a salad is like going to a brothel for a hug.

  7. #7
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Donwload Skada and actually check you're not lagging far behind on DPS (probably not, since you're a Hunter and lol Serpent's Spread), but just in case. Other than that, just stop pulling for the tank and make sure your pet is in a DPS spec with Growl off.

    Also, no offence intended OP, but chances are you're not doing a "perfect DPS rotation". The fact you said rotation is a big part of that. >.>
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2013-04-29 at 03:11 PM.

  8. #8
    Hhmm, can say I miss the "old times" as well sometimes. As a tank, its annoying how Not A Single Dps goes on the same mob as me... then go qq if they get aggro "cos hey, you got a 600% threat buff wtfnoobtank?!". Cant even do things like corner pulls etc anymore haha. But yes, seems they got hurt by you doing MD (I only get annoyed if its the boss thats pulled right when Im about to pop Army of the Dead as blood tank)
    I was Once a Nab
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    that I REALLY was a Nab

  9. #9
    Perhaps you should try running an instance with a group a friends or a tank that is able to communicate with you about pulls. In a random you don't know what that tank intends to do, when hes going to use specific AoE abilities or if hes even ready for more trash. They could be a novice tank from the sounds of it since they didn't pull all the trash up to the boss in a single pull. You never know, but yes pulling for a tank can indeed throw them off if they are not expecting it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Celoric View Post
    I usually do 50-60% of total dmg in dungeons. MD pulling and all. Yet to get kicked for it. I guess i was just lucky.

    If the tank is actually playing (not eating, watching TV, sending E-mails) he should be happy that you help him chain pull. All you have to do is not cross the line of his capabilities and healer capabilities on harder pulls and give them some time to breathe.
    Yeah and I run up and grab your jaw while you're eating, pushing it up and down faster, you should be happy that I'm helping you spend less time on dinner. Right?

    If I'm tanking, I don't care if you do 80% of the damage. I'll pull what I feel I can safely tank, or what can be safely healed. Impatient asshats who are like 'PULL MOAR GOGOGOGO' and run off to aggro a ton of shit when I'm already tanking a ton of mobs probably make up 4/5ths of the people I've votekicked.

    Absolutely one of the single most annoying things to encounter, as a tank, in a dungeon or raid.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Yeah and I run up and grab your jaw while you're eating, pushing it up and down faster, you should be happy that I'm helping you spend less time on dinner. Right?

    If I'm tanking, I don't care if you do 80% of the damage. I'll pull what I feel I can safely tank, or what can be safely healed. Impatient asshats who are like 'PULL MOAR GOGOGOGO' and run off to aggro a ton of shit when I'm already tanking a ton of mobs probably make up 4/5ths of the people I've votekicked.

    Absolutely one of the single most annoying things to encounter, as a tank, in a dungeon or raid.
    Have to go with this, i absolutely never pull instead of the tank, unless its a guild run and we faceroll everything. Landing in a random dungeon means to me, i wait and see what the tank is about to do, if he picks up a pack and goes on to pull another - sure ill misdirect that to him, if he doesnt i wait. Regardless of the fact that i can probably solo any of those packs by kiting. I can very much understand that its annoying to both healer and tank, to decide instead of them how much of a load they can carry, doing the opposite is just ass...

  12. #12
    Never pull ahead of the tank no matter the circumstance unless you have permission to. Honestly it's just annoying and could cause a wipe if the tanks not ready for it. Bottom line is you joined the group to dps not tank.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Yeah and I run up and grab your jaw while you're eating, pushing it up and down faster, you should be happy that I'm helping you spend less time on dinner. Right?

    If I'm tanking, I don't care if you do 80% of the damage. I'll pull what I feel I can safely tank, or what can be safely healed. Impatient asshats who are like 'PULL MOAR GOGOGOGO' and run off to aggro a ton of shit when I'm already tanking a ton of mobs probably make up 4/5ths of the people I've votekicked.

    Absolutely one of the single most annoying things to encounter, as a tank, in a dungeon or raid.
    Pretty much this. Tanking itself is so boring these days, so last thing any tank wants is some DPS trying to do hes job.

  14. #14
    Well, two things here. If you were MD pulling for the tank, regardless of how many secs behind he was, I can totally see why they would kick you. I just don't think it can be stated enough that Hunters aren't gods (my original main was a hunter, so I'm not Hunter biased) and shouldn't act\think they are. We have hunters that think they are better tanks, than the tanks, so they let their pets growl stay on, they pull for the tank, they pull mobs off the tank and then run 10 miles away kiting the mobs, many times letting everyone know how awesome they are because they were able to kite the mob etc etc.

    A great player, regardless of class, makes the whole group perform better. Not because they carry the workload, but they help to make everyone's job easier or gets everyone else involved. Sometimes I get in a group of people who just ding 90, sometimes I get AoE happy and pull mobs off the tank, while I could rant about the crappy tank, I avoid all the drama, by simply typing "sorry" and we continue on happy and carefree.

    With all that said, Sometimes, a group just doesn't want to share loot and so they kick anyone who might roll against them or their buddies. Last time I got kicked from a group was at the start of cata, we had only gotten to the 2nd trash back and one of them said "Bob just signed on" 5 secs later I was kicked. That's the wonderful game we play sometimes
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-04-29 at 03:27 PM.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Hanto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guldur View Post
    Problem: Lack of communication.
    I agree. I don't play a hunter, but I've played plenty of tanks. I get a bad vibe if the hunter starts pulling ahead of me without even asking, and I'm quick to kick if they think they're gonna start leading and possibly wiping the group because they're trigger happy. If a hunter asks, I'll usually be okay with it based on how much he intends on pulling ahead. Automatically assuming it's cool ticks me off.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nario64 View Post
    I'm currently running no mods so I can't tell what my dps is at, I just knew I had my best rotation going that run so I knew I was doing the best I could. But I miss the days when I ice trapped 2 mobs, slept another, and MD'd the last 2 to the tank, and that was my job.

    If I pull as the tank is running towards a group I don't consider that as a ninja pull... but maybe they do. It just frustrates me how any adaptation to the group's dynamic is gone. There's only 1 way to do a 5 man run these days, any way different is frowned upon. Even if it's more efficient.
    You probably did the right thing but I can understand why they kicked you. After the first boss you rushed to the next one and waited just to pull the next group as soon as the others arrive. It's fast and efficient but for a lot of casual players it's too fast. Just let the tank pull or ask the group if you can pre-pull things to speed up. Also keep in mind what the other people in your group are doing. How much mana did the healer have left? What about the other DPS?

    You're an advanced player that knows how stuff works but imagine the rest of your group are new players. Maybe first time in the dungeon or maybe even first time in a dungeon at all and now there's a DPS that wants to do stuff as fast as possible. That could be too much for new players that are still learning. In addition you're a DPS and there are a lot of DPS out there waiting for a group so they can replace you very fast.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Well, two things here. If you were MD pulling for the tank, regardless of how many secs behind he was, I can totally see why they would kick you. I just don't think it can be stated enough that Hunters aren't gods (my original main was a hunter, so I'm not Hunter biased) and shouldn't act\think they are. We have hunters that think they are better tanks, than the tanks, so they let their pets growl stay on, they pull for the tank, they pull mobs off the tank and then run 10 miles away kiting the mobs, many times letting everyone know how awesome they are because they were able to kite the mob etc etc.

    A great player, regardless of class, makes the whole group perform better. Not because they carry the workload, but they help to make everyone else's job easier or gets everyone else involved.

    With all that said, Sometimes, a group just doesn't want to share loot and so they kick anyone who might roll against them or their buddies. Last time I got kicked from a group was at the start of cata, we had only got the 2nd trash back and one of them said "Bob just signed on" 5 secs later I was kicked. That's the wonderful game we play
    This. One of the best posts I've read on these forums, very well said.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Guldur View Post
    Problem: Lack of communication.

    I would have done the same as you on my hunter, with a little difference, I would have asked / whispered the tank if he /she / it is ok with it, and would not have done all the MD-Pulling if Tank diagreed with it! That is all.
    This makes all the difference, I've had rogues/hunters ask if they could do stuff like this when i'm tanking before or I'm in a group of all friends and we're in vent or what have you and it's always a super smooth run.

  19. #19
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    I do this as well. But sometimes you run into scumbag tanks who think they are actually beneficial to the group. Newsflash, my damn pet can tank 5mans. Which ive had to do twice because of diva's leaving.

    Im awaiting the day that Blizzard says "fuck it" and just adds npc tanks, effectively getting rid of divas and long ass queues once and for all.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer SL1200's Avatar
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    I'm a hunter too, but I would never pull for a tank on purpose unless they asked me to do it. Let the tank do their job and you won't get booted. Not getting kicked for pulling is much faster than saving a half second by pulling the group on the tank and ending up having to reque.
    Last edited by SL1200; 2013-04-29 at 03:35 PM.

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