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  1. #1

    ToT Horridon & [Prot] Paladin DPS

    Hey - can anyone tell me why protection paladins have such high damage done on this fight?

    I play a survival hunter and here is a log from my horridon kill last night
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...?s=8966&e=9607

    As you can see I was able to stay way ahead of the paladin tank, however other dps classes seemed to struggle.

    I have looked at other guilds logs for horridon encounters and to me it seems prot pallys still rank high on the dps meters for this fight.

    Please advise.

  2. #2
    Tanks actually do competitive damage with vengence. I only looked briefly, but I assume you switch tanks every door, rather than have one tank do adds the whole time. By switching off, hes going into the adds with 20 seconds of full vengence from tanking the boss, and then aoe's the first and third door, which have more adds than 2nd and 4th. Any class that doesn't have a strong aoe will lose to the paladin, especially if he stacks haste due to how they work. Beyond the basic, I don't really know too much.

  3. #3
    Vengenance, and the fact that most (if not all) tank specs encourage you to cap hit/expertise and then usually a secondary stat that helps you deal more damage. That and there are a lot of adds to AOE down.

  4. #4
    The more damage you take the more damage you do (vengeance)

    Couple this with the highest damage recieved phase the boss has a debuff that makes him take loads more damage. Those two factors together tip it in the tanks favour. It shouldn't just be palas. It should be any tank.

  5. #5
    Prot Paladins are the tanks that have it easiest to solotank Horridon, both normal and heroic. Thus the only one that should be on boss 100% of the time, all the while the boss is taking increasing amounts of dmg and the tank gets more and more vengeance.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pt...?s=2254&e=2785

    Thats my guilds log from this week, me being the Prot Paladin. Its Heroic, but I could have done way more dps if I glyphed more singletarget and focused more on dps and less on staying alive. And if my co-tank didn't find it fun to taunt all the time in last phase.

  6. #6
    It's just vengeance really, I tank as a protadin on this fight and while we don't do the solo tank strat my damage is still fairly high on the fight due to vengeance from all the adds hitting me. Not to mention that if its a hasteadin he'll do even more damage once he builds vengeance. But yeah, with triple puncture building up in damage a tanks vengeance gets pretty high pretty quickly and you'll see a rise in damage

  7. #7
    In heroics prot paladin is like one and a half DPS and sick self heal.

  8. #8
    A tank full time on a boss with a 50% increased damage taken debuff per gate charged (200% by final gate) = high dps.

  9. #9
    A properly played tank beats a properly played dps for damage on basically every progression encounter without any cheesing. This has been the case since they effectively uncapped vengeance.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    A properly played tank beats a properly played dps for damage on basically every progression encounter without any cheesing. This has been the case since they effectively uncapped vengeance.
    Yup! Now I just have to get that into my raid team's tanks.... sigh.
    So many people are stuck in that old mindset of "My dps doesn't matter, so I shouldn't try to maximise it".

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Yup! Now I just have to get that into my raid team's tanks.... sigh.
    So many people are stuck in that old mindset of "My dps doesn't matter, so I shouldn't try to maximise it".
    Are there any tanks that don't get better dps out of trying to minimize damage intake? I'm not aware of all specific tank mechanics. Paladins want to maximize holy power generation for SotR uptime, which means hitting buttons hard. Monks want to keg smash on cd because it's their biggest chi generator, and blackout kick pretty much only chi spender which gives shuffle. Warriors need as much rage as possible for barrier/block which means hitting rage-generation abilities quick. DK want diseases up and rune strike for more rune regeneration, and death strike hits for a lot afaik. Bears are bears and I haven't played it in ages so no clue.
    It just seems that with the current active mitigation model, tanks cycling through resources quick to maximize defenses will also give proper dps. Unless you'd specifically talk about semi-afk'ing when other tank taunted (and even then they'd get no vengeance intake so their dps during actual tanking time matters a lot more), they can probably be more defensive if their damage is really low.

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    A properly played tank beats a properly played dps for damage on basically every progression encounter without any cheesing. This has been the case since they effectively uncapped vengeance.
    Maybe for HC progression where the damage is so much more but I doubt thats the case for quite a few normal bosses.
    Jin'rokh, megaera, primordius etcetc all come to mind. Tanks can definately contribute meaningfully to damage done though, unlike in the past.

  13. #13
    I can see jin'rokh somewhat, but on megaera I'm still sort of competitive (although killing heads in 1-2 breaths now sucks for vengeance) but no clue what your tanks are doing on primordius. Getting mutated combined with the debuff that makes you do extra damage adds up quickly.

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  14. #14
    Thanks for the comments all

    We did have a warrior tank on gates 1 and 3 but he really struggled with the adds and his dps seemed to just be normal warrior tank dps so I guess he wasn't taking full advantage of vengence. I've yet to see a warrior tank do such high damage as a prot paladin can do.

    We put the paladin tank on gates 1 and 3 because he handles the adds better. Aswell as topping the dps meters, he's not that far behind on the healing meters either.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    Are there any tanks that don't get better dps out of trying to minimize damage intake? I'm not aware of all specific tank mechanics. Paladins want to maximize holy power generation for SotR uptime, which means hitting buttons hard. Monks want to keg smash on cd because it's their biggest chi generator, and blackout kick pretty much only chi spender which gives shuffle. Warriors need as much rage as possible for barrier/block which means hitting rage-generation abilities quick. DK want diseases up and rune strike for more rune regeneration, and death strike hits for a lot afaik. Bears are bears and I haven't played it in ages so no clue.
    It just seems that with the current active mitigation model, tanks cycling through resources quick to maximize defenses will also give proper dps. Unless you'd specifically talk about semi-afk'ing when other tank taunted (and even then they'd get no vengeance intake so their dps during actual tanking time matters a lot more), they can probably be more defensive if their damage is really low.
    I cannot tell you a whole lot about the other tank specs, but for example a Death Knight will do a lot less damage if he tries to time death strikes properly in order to be less spiky to heal, than if he is just mashing his buttons. Also a druid can decide not to use faerie fire in empty gcds, and still have the maximum survival.

    But that wasn't actually what I ment. I was more thinking along the lines of using encounter mechanics to max your damage. And getting the most out of your dps cooldowns and such.
    Or even coordinating with the healers and get some extra vengeance when there is no damage going out and such. Cheesing vengenace - asking yourself if survial is the most important here, or if you should be doing some more dps in stead (use maul in stead of the other active mitigation as a druid)

    To be quite fair, I am quite unsure what exactly my tanks do, that makes them do so much less damage than they could be doing. (Only talking about druid and death knight here as I play those).

  16. #16
    Horridon is an encounter where a tank can and should be doing unusually high DPS, because the boss has a damage-taken debuff that increases as the encounter progresses. In general, DPS (especially ranged DPS) shouldn't be attacking the boss for most of the encounter, but the tank(s) should.

    Just be happy that the tank is helping kill things.

    Why the protadin is taking more advantage of it than the warrior, who knows, but I wouldn't draw any immediate conclusions from that without looking at how both tanks were performing.

  17. #17
    Vengeance in phase 2 is insane, especially when you get a dire call and war god's shout in quick succession,

  18. #18
    Your pally did 83.6% of his damage against horridon which gets a nice 50-200% damage taken debuff he also tanks the majority of the last phase. Comparing to your warrior tank he has horridon on door1 when he doesn't have a damage taken debuff yet and he doesn't tank anything after Jalak dies and the pally takes over on the boss.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Paladins aren't the only tanking class, that will do that amount of dmg. I did 261k as Guardian (Heroic though) and could easily do more, now that I got the dps meta gem. It's just cause we stay on Horridon most of the time. 1 Paladin of any spec, means that 1 tank can stay on Horridon on 3 gates (10 man ofc). 2 Paladins means, that 1 tank can stay on Horridon on all gates=major dps.

  20. #20
    Tanks wreck on this fight. I do 280k+ and have done way more on a wipe 1 tanking all of P2.

    The only classes that really beat me are Shadow priests and Warlocks.

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