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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    Yea but Pirox Bots didnt modify anything in game. It was just all external scripts. They got that shut down too. Also I think PiroxBots is from Germany as well.
    To be honest I'd never heard of Pirox before this thread but from what I can gather from a quick google is that the case was settled out of court. If their bot was just an external script then they have done nothing illegal however having the money to prove this against Blizzard in court is another matter entirely.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    To be honest I'd never heard of Pirox before this thread but from what I can gather from a quick google is that the case was settled out of court. If their bot was just an external script then they have done nothing illegal however having the money to prove this against Blizzard in court is another matter entirely.
    They had fees to use the program and trust me a lot of people used it. I remember posting on the Arenajunkies forums about how much of a pain the honor grind was for fresh characters and the number of people who just flat out said use Piroxbots was shocking. It was also very very safe. I ran it for 6+ months and never once got even a tell from someone saying I was botting. It logs all of your whispers so thats how I know.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    To be honest I'd never heard of Pirox before this thread but from what I can gather from a quick google is that the case was settled out of court. If their bot was just an external script then they have done nothing illegal however having the money to prove this against Blizzard in court is another matter entirely.
    My understanding is that in this case Blizzard would be the plaintiff, and it rests upon them to meet the burden of proof, not the defendant. I'd bet Blizzard looked at what it would cost their legal team to pursue this in terms of man hours, and decided it was cheaper to just pay Pirox to stop.

  4. #24
    Herald of the Titans Kuja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    Well first, it's impossible because it's not just one company but hundreds and if you close one down another will spring up.
    If all gold sellers were sued and they get a fine of a few million dollars, I highly doubt there will be hundreds more popping up, as they will then get the same fate.

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    If all gold sellers were sued and they get a fine of a few million dollars, I highly doubt there will be hundreds more popping up, as they will then get the same fate.
    a few million dollars is actually nothing. IGE is probably the largest seller of MMO currency. I remember reading that Yantis sold his shares of IGE for like 20 million when IGE bought out his company and that was back in 2003/2004. So imagine how much thats worth now especially since in the last 10 years how much the popularity and number of MMOs has skyrocketed.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey P View Post
    My understanding is that in this case Blizzard would be the plaintiff, and it rests upon them to meet the burden of proof, not the defendant. I'd bet Blizzard looked at what it would cost their legal team to pursue this in terms of man hours, and decided it was cheaper to just pay Pirox to stop.
    You could be correct about the pay off but I guess no one outside of Blizzard or Pirox will know for sure. (Are Pirox anything to do with honour buddy as I read they were quite up for the fight?) But it does take some balls when a multi billion dollar company threatens to sue you to stand up to them even if you are legally in the right as legal costs could spiral into millions.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    If all gold sellers were sued and they get a fine of a few million dollars, I highly doubt there will be hundreds more popping up, as they will then get the same fate.
    IDK how many times it has to be said, but if all gold sellers were sued for something for which NO LAW EXISTS, the lawsuits would be summarily dismissed, Blizzard would have to cover the court costs, and Blizzard would just be out a chunk of what they crave most, money.

    You can bet every last cent you have that as soon as a law went onto the books making monetization of in game currency illegal, that a couple of things would happen. Blizzard would be ready for litigation the second it went on the books, and gold sellers paying attention to current events, would immediately cease and desist before Blizzard dropped the legal hammer down.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    Blizzard successfully had both Glider and Piroxbots shut down legally. Why cant they do the same for gold sellers?

    This is the court's ruling on Glider
    In July 2008, the court entered summary judgment holding MDY Industries liable for tortious interference and copyright infringement, based, in part, upon the legal premise that users of the World of Warcraft client software are licensees rather than owners of their copy of software.

    How is gold selling not tortious interference?

    Because they would lose a massive potential revenue source. Blizz can squash gold sellers. They can stop them right in their tracks. The simple fact is that even if Blizz does not get a kick back from the gold sellers the method that would stop them would also remove players from the customer base who support them.





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  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans Kuja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    a few million dollars is actually nothing. IGE is probably the largest seller of MMO currency. I remember reading that Yantis sold his shares of IGE for like 20 million when IGE bought out his company and that was back in 2003/2004. So imagine how much thats worth now especially since in the last 10 years how much the popularity and number of MMOs has skyrocketed.
    Good point! But owners of IGE have like 50 different gold selling companies afaik, and if they were all sued, they would get bankrupt in no time. And in case of IGE, the fine would be a lot bigger than a few million, as they have sold gold for a lot more than that.

    There's also hundreds of smaller businesses that couldn't afford a lawsuit.

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsz View Post
    Why would they shut down the greatest cash cow they have ever been able to produce? It would be the best business strategy ever to sell gold in one's own game, without having to pay taxes off those earnings.

    Yeah think about it for a while.
    Are you suggesting that Blizzard is selling gold in WoW? If so, you might want to think about it for a while until you reach a different conclusion.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Because they would lose a massive potential revenue source. Blizz can squash gold sellers. They can stop them right in their tracks. The simple fact is that even if Blizz does not get a kick back from the gold sellers the method that would stop them would also remove players from the customer base who support them.
    Its a joke to make gold in this game. I made easily over a million during cata without playing the AH. People arent going to quit if they cant buy gold.

  12. #32
    Its a complicated matter. There is more they could/should do vs 'Chinese gold farmers' but you also have ALOT of people who sell domestically to people they know on their server, which is much harder to prove.

    Chinese gold farmers can be easy, track the sellers, remove gold from buyers(you cant just ban buyers, farmers would just send gold to random people from their accts to create a fog of doubt)

    For domestic sellers, bliz would really have to drastically downplay the AH in the games economy AND effectively stop botting. Botting is a massive problem most people arent aware of in game. Most gold botters use a secondary acct, and even if the secondary acct gets caught and banned, bliz doesnt touch the primary acct.

    Even if you shut down mainstream domestic and foreign gold sellers, there would still be some people selling gold..

    Im no expert though, maybe there is a solution to this and blizzard either hasnt found it, or doesnt want to do it. IE if it would cost them alot of subs from bannings, I could definitely see blizzard turning a blind eye to that method.

    Edit: as far as why they cant legally.. already been spelled out in this thread. Many gold selling companies are small and in parts of the world where their government really dont care that their people are 'selling imaginary money in a game on the internet'

    Also its not like its Wal-GoldFarm-Mart and they can just shut it down, theres so many tiny gold selling operations you could never target every one..

    They have shut down some of the big bot programs, but many professional bots still remain active and effective so those examples of bliz shutting companies down are also great examples of how ineffective it can be. On top of all of that, it costs blizzard to go after these companies. :/
    Last edited by Ziphr; 2013-04-29 at 07:24 PM.

  13. #33
    Honestly Blizzard should just start their own official gold selling service and steal the market. They would make an absolute killing.

  14. #34
    I'm going to echo what Mikey P has said:

    It's not illegal.

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    Its a joke to make gold in this game. I made easily over a million during cata without playing the AH. People arent going to quit if they cant buy gold.

    Not what I am saying. What I am saying is that blizzard would need to remove all players who support these companies. These companies are not in business without MASSIVE support from the customer base. You get rid of the players who buy from them, and they will go away. So will a huge chunk of blizzard profits. This is of course straying away from any inference that blizz may also be in bed with the gold sellers in the first place.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamcute View Post
    Because gold sellers use trial accounts... duh. They shut down one and the gold sellers just create another account-

    So you apparently no nothing about trial accounts. You cannot trade, spam chat, or use the auction house on a trial account. Gold sellers use HACKED accounts. These accounts are liquidated completely then stand in towns spamming or setting up trades with toons that are on either another hacked account or on a legit account that acts as a mule for gold sales.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    What is against the law is the gold selling companies are profiting off Blizzard's intellectual properly. That is against US laws. Attempting to prosecute someone outside US borders is tough especially in the countries the originate from. China, Taiwan, etc don't give a damn about making profits off a US company.

    The only thing Blizzard can do is shut down the accounts and ban the IP addresses. The problem is many of these are not trial accounts and actual users who accounts have been compromised. This is another reason why Blizzard highly suggests you use an authenticator.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    Blizzard successfully had both Glider and Piroxbots shut down legally. Why cant they do the same for gold sellers?

    This is the court's ruling on Glider
    In July 2008, the court entered summary judgment holding MDY Industries liable for tortious interference and copyright infringement, based, in part, upon the legal premise that users of the World of Warcraft client software are licensees rather than owners of their copy of software.

    How is gold selling not tortious interference?
    This question could also apply to drugs, they are illegal but we can't get rid of them. The answer happens to be the same as well, DEMAND. As long as people want to buy gold there will be some one out there trying to sell the gold to them.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  19. #39
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Ooh God, so many conspiracies!
    Let's ignore them and listen to what sensible people have told a couple of times:

    Selling gold is not illegal.
    Using WoW-code to create a bot is probably copyright infringement and therefore illegal.
    You can't take people to court if they aren't doing anything illegal.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    Using that argument if I sell my account for real life money and they reclaim it thus keeping my account and getting the money from the buyer did I break any laws?
    No. tenchar
    READ and be less Ignorant.

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