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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    What is against the law is the gold selling companies are profiting off Blizzard's intellectual properly. That is against US laws. Attempting to prosecute someone outside US borders is tough especially in the countries the originate from. China, Taiwan, etc don't give a damn about making profits off a US company.

    The only thing Blizzard can do is shut down the accounts and ban the IP addresses. The problem is many of these are not trial accounts and actual users who accounts have been compromised. This is another reason why Blizzard highly suggests you use an authenticator.
    Guessing there is more to it than that. If these companies were running there own WoW servers, and charging a fee to play, or to purchase in game items on that private server, that would be IP theft. I believe there are examples of this and in this case, Blizzard came down hard on the people ripping off their IP.

    What blizzard does not have a patent on is the use of a virtual currency. If all Blizzard can prove a gold selling site is doing is agreeing to exchange virtual currency for real currency, this is not violating Blizzard's IP.

    The company I work for is a good example. We develop asphalt technology and license customers to use our IP to manufacture seal coat. These customers can make product using the recipe we sell them, and profit as much as they want to, by making the product and selling it to end users for a higher than cost amount, or by winning a bid on a contract to apply the product. The licensees are free to sell the product to whoever, for whatever,even though we own the IP. The only thing licensees cannot do unless they wish to break the law, is take our product formulation, and market it as their own. Anything less than that is not a violation of our IP.

  2. #42
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Because at the end of the day Blizzard is a business and unless they can substantially profit from legal action or they are bleeding money because of specific "illegal" companies, they won't do squat.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey P View Post
    My understanding is that in this case Blizzard would be the plaintiff, and it rests upon them to meet the burden of proof, not the defendant. I'd bet Blizzard looked at what it would cost their legal team to pursue this in terms of man hours, and decided it was cheaper to just pay Pirox to stop.
    Actually, two things I want to point out.

    MDY (makers of glider) Were served a C&D, and offered a large sum of cash to settle out of court. MDY went to court because they thought they could win.

    Pirox was served a C&D, and offered a large sum of cash to settle out of court. Pirox took the money and ran.

    OT, in-game currency selling has been around for as long as in-game currency has existed. And as long as it does, you can't stop it. They aren't doing anything illegal, so Blizzard can't get the law behind them. They are usually in countries that Blizzard couldn't touch them in anyway. Most currency used in sales is taken from stolen/compromised accounts anyway, so if they get shut down, the sellers just go after others. This also means that even if Blizzard somehow managed to make their game bot proof, gold selling would still happen. The only real way would be to remove currency all together; although not 100% there, Path of Exile has removed currency and uses items in its place, and gold sellers are still selling those items lol.

    If gold was essentially like Honor points or JP, it wouldn't completely stop gold selling but it would severely hinder it. It would also be a pain in the ass for players to deal with though.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    If all gold sellers were sued and they get a fine of a few million dollars, I highly doubt there will be hundreds more popping up, as they will then get the same fate.
    That happens now with piracy and it shown no signs of slowing down. Plus in order for Blizzard to fine anyone they need legal grounds to do so, which they don't.
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  5. #45
    Blizz are stupid because they are not selling gold themselves. This would be a win-win situation, those who buy gold will have their gold for real money anyways, and no dirty chinese botters will make money on that. They could even buy gold from players and then resell it. It is just like... they don't care, and we have that lose/lose situation, where you can be banned for giving a large sum of gold to your friend, while people buy gold for years and never have any punishment on them.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    Yea but Pirox Bots didnt modify anything in game. It was just all external scripts. They got that shut down too. Also I think PiroxBots is from Germany as well.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 02:39 PM ----------




    Using that argument if I sell my account for real life money and they reclaim it thus keeping my account and getting the money from the buyer did I break any laws?
    2 counts of Fraud, Copyright infringement, Larceny or Grand Larceny depending on the value, and tax evasion if you don't pay taxes on this.

    Selling a WoW Account inately comes with 2 counts of fraud and Copyright Infringement. If you don't file it and it's over your states limit, you also suffer Tax Evasion.

    Stealing it back suffers Larceny or Grand Larceny depending on the value you sold it at.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    Yea but Pirox Bots didnt modify anything in game. It was just all external scripts. They got that shut down too. Also I think PiroxBots is from Germany as well.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 02:39 PM ----------




    Using that argument if I sell my account for real life money and they reclaim it thus keeping my account and getting the money from the buyer did I break any laws?
    They could sue you for breach of contract

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    Actually, two things I want to point out.

    MDY (makers of glider) Were served a C&D, and offered a large sum of cash to settle out of court. MDY went to court because they thought they could win.

    Pirox was served a C&D, and offered a large sum of cash to settle out of court. Pirox took the money and ran.
    I'd be curious to see what the settlements were. It would show us just how much Blizzard values their game being BOT free. I think where you would see Blizard spare no expense and sue the living shit out of someone, is if they were running private servers and charging money to play on them, as that is a blatant theft of IP.

    Here is a story I am sure most of us are familiar with:

    IP theft example

  9. #49
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Blizz are stupid because they are not selling gold themselves. This would be a win-win situation, those who buy gold will have their gold for real money anyways, and no dirty chinese botters will make money on that. They could even buy gold from players and then resell it. It is just like... they don't care, and we have that lose/lose situation, where you can be banned for giving a large sum of gold to your friend, while people buy gold for years and never have any punishment on them.
    In games where you can buy gold for cash, like GW2, there still are bots selling gold cheaper.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    They could sue you for breach of contract
    The contract you enter clearly states what Blizzard has the authority to do, and that is to ban the account(s) involved with the breach of contract in this case. This contract does not grant Blizzard the authority to have your website shut down for selling in game currency.

    In my industry, private contractors are awarded government contracts to build roads, and these contracts have a clearly stated schedule of damages should the contractor not live up to its terms, I.E. project not completed on time, or not up to specification. You only see breach of contract when the contractor then fails to make good on the damages assessed, and in Blizzard's case, damages assessed to the gold seller is ban of account.

  11. #51
    Many aren't based in the US so they can't touch them. The ones that are or have been are the ones they end up going to court with and have shut down. In some cases the gold sellers aren't breaking laws and as a result aren't subject to legal actions that would shut them down. Gold sellers are kinda like ppl that sell knock off purses at a swap meet with a virtual twist and in some cases international laws. It would cost Blizzard far too much to chase down all of them in most cases and offer up almost no results on their side.
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  12. #52
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey P View Post
    Guessing there is more to it than that. If these companies were running there own WoW servers, and charging a fee to play, or to purchase in game items on that private server, that would be IP theft. I believe there are examples of this and in this case, Blizzard came down hard on the people ripping off their IP.

    What blizzard does not have a patent on is the use of a virtual currency. If all Blizzard can prove a gold selling site is doing is agreeing to exchange virtual currency for real currency, this is not violating Blizzard's IP.

    The company I work for is a good example. We develop asphalt technology and license customers to use our IP to manufacture seal coat. These customers can make product using the recipe we sell them, and profit as much as they want to, by making the product and selling it to end users for a higher than cost amount, or by winning a bid on a contract to apply the product. The licensees are free to sell the product to whoever, for whatever,even though we own the IP. The only thing licensees cannot do unless they wish to break the law, is take our product formulation, and market it as their own. Anything less than that is not a violation of our IP.
    You negated your own example though. Your company grants licenses to other companies to manufacturer or resell your product.

    Blizzard does not grant this ability to others. In the EULA you are not allowed to make a profit off Blizzards IP. This is also why add-on designers can't charge money so you can download their ui modifications. You can ask for donations to pay for the website but not the addon itself.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 07:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Many aren't based in the US so they can't touch them. The ones that are or have been are the ones they end up going to court with and have shut down. In some cases the gold sellers aren't breaking laws and as a result aren't subject to legal actions that would shut them down. Gold sellers are kinda like ppl that sell knock off purses at a swap meet with a virtual twist and in some cases international laws. It would cost Blizzard far too much to chase down all of them in most cases and offer up almost no results on their side.
    I'm sure Blizzard has tried but just like piracy, it's hard to convince another countries government it's a problem when it only effects the US profits.

  13. #53
    Gold sellers that operate using compromised accounts are of course committing all sorts of crimes -- fraud, theft, computer crime, mail fraud, et cetera. But because they are located outside US jurisdiction there isn't much that can be done.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    You negated your own example though. Your company grants licenses to other companies to manufacturer or resell your product.

    Blizzard does not grant this ability to others. In the EULA you are not allowed to make a profit off Blizzards IP. This is also why add-on designers can't charge money so you can download their ui modifications. You can ask for donations to pay for the website but not the addon itself.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 07:17 PM ----------



    I'm sure Blizzard has tried but just like piracy, it's hard to convince another countries government it's a problem when it only effects the US profits.
    It probably wasn't the best example, but I was usin to illustrate the difference between using IP for profit versus stealing it. If a seal coat manufacturer were to start making our product, with our name, and exact formulation, and market it in a manner in which they do not claim they own or developed the IP, we would pursue licensing them, and collecting tech fees normally assessed without pursuing litigation. Litigation would come about if someone used our exact formulation and just changed the name.

    Again, best example I could come up with on personal experience.

  15. #55
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Many aren't based in the US so they can't touch them.
    They actually can. Many years ago NCsoft unleashed legal hell on a couple of private L2 servers with huge populations. One of them was in Greece and the owner ended up doing some jail time.

    Point is Blizzard can do a lot more, as long as it is worth it ($).

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    They actually can. Many years ago NCsoft unleashed legal hell on a couple of private L2 servers with huge populations. One of them was in Greece and the owner ended up doing some jail time.

    Point is Blizzard can do a lot more, as long as it is worth it ($).
    They can do a lot in the US or EU, but outside that blizzard has no legal foot to stand on, it's very difficult from a legal pov to shutdown chinese goldsellers (and yes the majority of gold sellers on every game originates from China (around 80%)).

  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    i typed wow gold into google and it came up with About 116,000,000 sites

    so thats 116 million sites related to wow gold

  18. #58
    Blizzard HAS shut down gold selling/power leveling companies that are in countries that allow them to do so. Those that are in places like China do not allow them to do so though and a majority of these companies know what countries do allow it and make their bases in those countries.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    2 counts of Fraud, Copyright infringement, Larceny or Grand Larceny depending on the value, and tax evasion if you don't pay taxes on this.

    Selling a WoW Account inately comes with 2 counts of fraud and Copyright Infringement. If you don't file it and it's over your states limit, you also suffer Tax Evasion.

    Stealing it back suffers Larceny or Grand Larceny depending on the value you sold it at.
    Oh, geez, don't be silly.

    Selling your account gets the account closed if Blizzard wants to close it. That's all.

    I don't see where you could find copyright infringement in any part of selling an account. There is no fraud unless the buyer isn't aware that the transaction is prohibited by Blizzard, and if you are hoping that someone would be prosecuted for a $100 fraud then well hope on, the only way a DA or US attorney will take that on is if the suspect also happens to be banging his underage daughter.

    Unless the transaction is for thousands of dollars it would never be an issue with federal or state tax authorities. In general, there is rarely a criminal case resulting from failure to pay tax. They just send you a bill and then if you don't pay, they start filing levies. In order to be prosecuted for tax evasion all on its own you pretty much need to be a "tax protester" or a mobster or con artist. If you are involved in organized crime or in a financial conspiracy, tax evasion charges will often be used against you, because they are often relatively easy to prove.

    Glider was shut down via a (still relatively shaky) DMCA claim. Not sure how the other bot companies get shut down but the legal reasoning in all of these cases is tenuous. It may be effective but Blizzard is stretching the law in order to make it work.

    In the case of gold sellers operating with compromised accounts, sure, they are breaking GOBS of laws, but they are generally located in jurisdictions that can't be easily reached.
    Last edited by HardCoder; 2013-05-01 at 04:07 AM.

  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamcute View Post
    Because gold sellers use trial accounts... duh. They shut down one and the gold sellers just create another account-
    No they don't..
    Trials have not access to mailbox nor person2person trade, and thus they can't do any kind of trades...

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