A thought to increase Alliance excitement without redoing old zones.

[Deleted]

Then maybe Blizzard should stop trying to portray her as the night elves' top military commander and put more effort into showing Shandris running the military and Tyrande as their governmental and religious leader. In WC3 and WoW, Tyrande was the one out on the front lines running the military in person, with the night elves behaving as though it were a regular occurrence. That's been ongoing since she became High Priestess, which implies she has had at least a few thousand years' worth of experience in running a military even if she gave Shandris most of the duties as time went on.

If Tyrande's not the military commander, Blizz needs to either admit to it and start giving Shandris limelight during military operations the night elves get involved in outside Feralas (and why is the head of the night elves' armed forces in Bumfuck Nowhere anyway? One would think Shandris would either be on the front lines in the Ashenvale theater where the fighting's really getting nasty or in Darnassus coordinating troops.), or stop portraying Tyrande as having the military knowhow of a toddler while telling us the exact opposite.

She's a warrior priestess, she's Xena with a light show, and she commands the respect of all Night elves.

Would you tell her to fuck off back to a temple and sit pretty? Exactly. She's the leader of the Night elves, so she thinks she can be the Military leader also.

I agree with you Shandaris needs more limelight. But Tyrande getting schooled about Military tactics? All I can say is it's about time someone taught her that running head first into things is not always the best tactic.

[frogger237]

I kinda don't want anymore heroes to come back especially any males, blizz seems to be in the habit of killing them off lately. Just the ones I can think of offhand are Magni, Krasus and Rhonin.

[Sandrox]

Bringing back Turalyon might actually advance an Alliance group that has stagnated since WC3.

The paladins.

Has there been ANY Alliance based paladin lore since WoW launched? If there was I missed it. We got a crapton in order to let us know how and why the Belves and the Tauren can use it but paladins have been ridiculously quiet on the Alliance front.

Considering how they were the poster boys for the Alliance it's a damn shame.

It was all moved into the Argent Crusade and cheapened so the Horde could experience it too. Same thing with druids/night elves and the Cenarion Circle. If the Horde didnt have access to these 2 factions, they would have had practically nothing in classic. Thats usually what happens with Alliance based lore, it goes neutral.

[MathAddict]

Honestly? Right now the Alliance doesn't feel like an Alliance. It feels like 'Varian and his vassal nations, two of whom are run by people with thousands of years of leadership and wartime experience, one of whom is one of the oldest people on the planet.'

-The Alliance hasn't felt like an Alliance in a long, long time--ever since Wrath it's felt increasingly like 'Varian and Friends,' with every Alliance nation pledging immediate fealty to Varian the moment his lantern jaw and GRIM AND GRITTY scars make the scene, with at least one Alliance leader being shoehorned into the 'Token Extremist' role despite over a decade of characterization as the voice of reason for the sake of making him look good and making THE HOARDZ look worse than it already did with Garrosh Blackhand running the show.

Same thing with the horde. The horde story has been orc centric since the beginning of cata.

[Thage]

She's a warrior priestess, she's Xena with a light show, and she commands the respect of all Night elves.

Not all, apparently. A chunk of them are grumbling about her decision to reintegrate the Highborne, and others (Maiev and her Watcher loyalists, most notably) felt her decision to join the Alliance weakened the night elves' cultural identity as some night elves began adopting Stormwind styles. Though I do see where you're coming from in a general sense.

Would you tell her to fuck off back to a temple and sit pretty? Exactly. She's the leader of the Night elves, so she thinks she can be the Military leader also.

If I were Shandris (that is, tall, purple, built, and hot), I'd advise she let military minds handle military operations. Tyrande and Shandris apparently have a mother-daughter dynamic, which likely lets Shandris get away with a lot--I'd imagine such a request would be one of the things she could get away with.

I agree with you Shandaris needs more limelight. But Tyrande getting schooled about Military tactics? All I can say is it's about time someone taught her that running head first into things is not always the best tactic.

The timing irks me, is all. Blizz wanted to shill Varian's new, more level-headed personality (and to be honest, all they would've needed to do is give non-pandaren players a chance to see Varian walk with Aysa and Jojo on their first journey to Stormwind; it shows a marked change from the jerkass he was in Wrath and Cataclysm) and get the Alliance armies... I dunno. Working under a Lothar/Turalyon-like figure, I guess, is the goal, according to Metzen and Kosak on Twitter. The problem is, having them all pledge fealty to another king feels an awful lot like the Alliance is aping the Horde's political system so the game can continue being Humans vs Orcs (costarring everyone else) instead of giving the other racial leaders relevant screentime not spent shilling their faction's main leader.

[MathAddict]

And here is what I am talking about right here. Not all development is supposed to be positive development. The Alliance has been attacked by a Horde that is no longer content to sit in mud huts in a desert. It has faced a much stronger, renewed Horde that has been posed to crush them in every field. But the Alliance held firm, and though formly splintered, has began to unite under the King of Stormwinds command and push back the invading Orcish threat. Right now, the ALLIANCE is standing ready to dealt a swift killing blow to the aggresive Horde Warmachine, and although it does not quite muster the strength to do it alone, the Alliance stands as a grand Beacon of Light and power against the gnarling Horde that ruptures from within.

But no, people always focus on the bad side and forget that tragedy breeds character. Before Cataclysm, the Alliance was Lazy, ill connected and sluggish, the Horde were poor, small and ill disciplined. Cataclysm shook both sides. It Brought the Horde out of the dust and it smacked the Alliance out of their stupor.

No Longer is the Alliance a fraction of Humans doing human things here, and some night elves doing Night elf things there. It's a united effort. What kind of Alliance player are you if you pine and whine about the Horde so much, you forget that the ALLIANCE has won the war. And the Horde is now at the Mercy of this glorious Army of Light.

This is pretty much spot on imho. The alliance is getting plenty of development. I think it's just not the type of development people want so they just qq constantly.

[Deleted]

True, not all development is meant to be positive, but it's expected to be good.

The Alliance has indeed been attacked by the Horde... and they lost on most fronts. Ashenvale, Southern Barrens (remember, even if there was an Alliance offensive before you got there, the zone ends with the destruction of the dwarven fortress, plus that most supplies were coming from Theramore), Dustwallow Marsh, Stonetalon Mountains, Azshara, Silverpine (worgen), Gilneas (being invaded comes as loss, only recently one of the devs said the Alliance has all of Gilneas but they didn't show it, but I haven't seen that), Alterac Mountains and Hillsbrad Foothills, Western Plaguelands.
The Alliance lost here, on all these places, but Alliance only won in Swamp of Sorrows and Darkshore and you could count Jade Forest since our flyer remained in the air. But remember, in Swamp of Sorrows the victory isn't show fully. Why could the Horde victory over Theramore be shown and the one over Stonard could not?

Also, the Alliance was always united. This wasn't a band of misfits that banded together and each were suspicious about one another like orcs felt with forsaken for example to need a strong warchief. This was an Alliance, like NATO. And they''re turning it into the Warsaw Pact where Big Brother Stormwind and the great leader Varian will lead all. Sure, maybe humans could look weird when they saw a night elf, but the alliance was made because of a same goal, protecting their lands. And the races of the Alliance didn't hold mistrust to one another, at best they thought some of the other races were weird in their ideas, but nothing else. This isn't like the forsaken making a plague behind everyone's back or the blood elves joining the Horde but actually awaiting redemption from Kael'thas and all that. The Alliance was united already.

Ok, now I wonder, why doesn't the Alliance muster the strengh to be able to do it alone? I don't say I don't want Horde to get content, but I want to know why the whole of that powerful united Alliance you talk about isn't strong enough to deal with: orcs allied with Garrosh (not all orcs in existance) and... ummm... that's really it, as the other races of the Horde are fighting Garrosh too... So the Alliance can't deal on its own, the full might of the Alliance... with 1/6 of the Horde... yea... I don't feel my faction is so strong now. As I said, I don't say Horde shouldn't get content, but we should get our own, not be sidekicks to them.

I don't remember the Alliance before Cataclysm being that... I mean, our push into Outlands went ok, in Northrend we even had some epic moment at the Wrathgate, and the draenei only weren't welcomed because the human commander was posessed by that undead blood elf... no, I can't remember the Alliance not being unified and sluggish. Maybe if you gave some examples on where we did bad and we're doing better now? But clear ones, like... look, in this zone, before you were getting beaten, now the full might of all races stands together.

Clearly you know little about your faction and push to much for the negatives.

Night Elves fought back the Orcs in Ashenvale.

They stopped the Forest trolls AND the Undead in the Hinterlands.

They managed to get complete Dominance of Feralas through the building of an even bigger hold.

The Horde Lost their position in the Badlands. They lost their major war efforts Swamp of Sorrows.

The Horde lost much of the Lower Barrens and all of their Thousand Needle pressence.

The Horde lose as a Majoirty in Felwood, seeing as the Night Elves and Worgen establish a large base and the Horde have a few goblin buildings.


The Horde Managed to flesh out a few areas like Southshore and such. But When they attacked a largely neutral area? They got beaten back 90% of the time. The Horde Lost alot of Minor battles, and won a few bigger ones. Look at the Number of zones with Alliance Majority. Look at the number of zones with horde majority. They are the same.

As for the Alliance being united since the start? Show me the Interaction we got between Night Elves and Humans since Vanilla. A few spurts here, a few random groups there.

It was Cataclysm and Pandara that has seen the Sentinels fight in the Alliance army not on their own, but United.

And for the Alliance being Stagnant? Hell, most Vanilla quests for the Humans play around this. The Night Elves did little to defend the vast forests of Ashenvale wholesale, Feralas was also super quiet. Now things have been shook up, you see the Alliance banding together, fighting united on AGGRESSIVE Terms.

[Deleted]

Basically you want Alliance to get a huge presence right next to Horde territory, in every single point you are raising there.

I have no Qualms over Gilneas. If the Horde get a large zone with a large city directly one zone away from an Alliance capital.

I have no Qualms over Stromgarde. If the Horde get a large fortess directly next to one of the level 20 zones of the Alliance.

I have no Qualms over Dalaran. If the Horde get to Plonk a big Horde base directly into a middle tier zone so they can dominate it and fix "Questflow".


Things never taken into account by these "Wishes" is they vastly disrupt the Power of Balance, the Power of Balance THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE, by Cataclysm. Because before, the Alliance had much more ground.

You never played Warcraft 3 did you? Tyrande was always like this.

You have Bilgewater Harbour, next to a 15-25 zone, for Stromgarde. Good enough.

Also, Tyrande was ferocious organizer kind of leader. She's now brute kind of leader. The difference is that in first place you're basing your ferocity on what you know sits behind you. Like "hey, I have a bigger army, so all you humans and orcs can shove off" or "hey, these furbolgs, they're corrupted... they might help later, let's cure them on our way destroying this Alliance and Horde bases, maybe they're enough to push the frontier".
The second one is like "hey, you see these corrupted furbolgs? kill them all" but let me give you an example from another character to understand this "hey, see those dragons? let's kill them, despite the fact that my main force will be left without an escort". This is a brute leader, not thinking their actions at all one bit.

Tyrande is ferocious, but thinks of the future, lays traps and she knows what she bases herself on. Think a bit, a brute's response to the Legion's coming would not have been "let's awaken the druids", it would have been "pff, the legion, I'll send my entire army, even if I leave my main shi... I mean Nordrassil without one, I mean I can kill them". A brute's response to corrupted furbolgs I explained, but also one to the whole saving of Malfurion for example, it wouldn't have been "oh, let's wake him up, maybe he can save himself before the undead get there", a brute's response would have been "I can kill those undead!".

Similarly, a brute's response to the Temple situation is "let's go in there and kill them" while a ferocious but organized leader's response would have been "I must lay traps and lure them out where my archers, since this is what my troops are, archers, can take them out, not have archers go into melee in a closed environment, and when they come out, I'll kill them all". And the second was Varian, not Tyrande.

[Deleted]

Not all, apparently. A chunk of them are grumbling about her decision to reintegrate the Highborne, and others (Maiev and her Watcher loyalists, most notably) felt her decision to join the Alliance weakened the night elves' cultural identity as some night elves began adopting Stormwind styles. Though I do see where you're coming from in a general sense.

If I were Shandris (that is, tall, purple, built, and hot), I'd advise she let military minds handle military operations. Tyrande and Shandris apparently have a mother-daughter dynamic, which likely lets Shandris get away with a lot--I'd imagine such a request would be one of the things she could get away with.

The timing irks me, is all. Blizz wanted to shill Varian's new, more level-headed personality (and to be honest, all they would've needed to do is give non-pandaren players a chance to see Varian walk with Aysa and Jojo on their first journey to Stormwind; it shows a marked change from the jerkass he was in Wrath and Cataclysm) and get the Alliance armies... I dunno. Working under a Lothar/Turalyon-like figure, I guess, is the goal, according to Metzen and Kosak on Twitter. The problem is, having them all pledge fealty to another king feels an awful lot like the Alliance is aping the Horde's political system so the game can continue being Humans vs Orcs (costarring everyone else) instead of giving the other racial leaders relevant screentime not spent shilling their faction's main leader.

The major Problems with Tyrande is she is stupidly head-strong. Every instance of her making a choice is done with disregard to others. Freeing Illidan? Screw you malfurion? Giving up Immortality? Screw you Malfurion, but considering you're the one with the Horn, I guess I can't say. Highbourne? Screw you people who still don't like magic. Velen thinking Elune may be a Naaru? Fuck you Velen, I don't want to sit down and talk with you, I will boot you out of MY City.

As for Shandaris, she may be the General of the Sentinels. But she is also a complete and utter spineless thing when it comes to Tyrande. I don't think she'd have the ehart to tell Tyrande to fuck off.

As for Varian and his whole leadership thing? I agree completely. the Timing is weird, and although he hits all the right buttons for a good leader. it does seem like it makes the Alliance very "Human" Dominated. Perhaps they could easily get rid of that with more Non Human NPC generals about.

[Deleted]

You have Bilgewater Harbour, next to a 15-25 zone, for Stromgarde. Good enough.

Also, Tyrande was ferocious organizer kind of leader. She's now brute kind of leader. The difference is that in first place you're basing your ferocity on what you know sits behind you. Like "hey, I have a bigger army, so all you humans and orcs can shove off" or "hey, these furbolgs, they're corrupted... they might help later, let's cure them on our way destroying this Alliance and Horde bases, maybe they're enough to push the frontier".
The second one is like "hey, you see these corrupted furbolgs? kill them all" but let me give you an example from another character to understand this "hey, see those dragons? let's kill them, despite the fact that my main force will be left without an escort". This is a brute leader, not thinking their actions at all one bit.

Tyrande is ferocious, but thinks of the future, lays traps and she knows what she bases herself on. Think a bit, a brute's response to the Legion's coming would not have been "let's awaken the druids", it would have been "pff, the legion, I'll send my entire army, even if I leave my main shi... I mean Nordrassil without one, I mean I can kill them". A brute's response to corrupted furbolgs I explained, but also one to the whole saving of Malfurion for example, it wouldn't have been "oh, let's wake him up, maybe he can save himself before the undead get there", a brute's response would have been "I can kill those undead!".

Similarly, a brute's response to the Temple situation is "let's go in there and kill them" while a ferocious but organized leader's response would have been "I must lay traps and lure them out where my archers, since this is what my troops are, archers, can take them out, not have archers go into melee in a closed environment, and when they come out, I'll kill them all". And the second was Varian, not Tyrande.

The Problem you have here is Tyrande has not shown MUCH of a planning side beyond the furbolgs and shit. She acts on Impulse ALOT and generally disregarded any sense from other people.

She would gladly blugeon her way into the temple, and yes, it would have probably worked. But like what happened every time she did something like this . She would have suffered. She was Angry at the Orcs, it clouded her judgement and right now all she wanted was those who attacked her home dead.

Varian was a voice of reason, perhaps a voice going on inside Tyrande's own head but drowed out by her wanting to Murder-death-kill all orcs in her way.

[Pisholina]

Ok, Gilneas. It's something that, as I understood, in lore, belongs to Alliance. I want improvements to Gilneas, since it's something the Alliance already has.
And we have Dalaran, I want it to appear in Dustwallow Marsh in the place where Theramore was, flying over. New quests there for Alliance since questflow is kind of borked.
Or, a third possibility, Arathi Mountains Rewamp to let us have Stormgarde fully. I mean, a part is already ours and rest is ogre and syndicate, Horde have no quarrel there.
Take your pick, one of the three.
What, this isn't ok?

In a thread called "A thought to increase Alliance excitement WITHOUT REDOING OLD ZONES" you give three options where all of them are redoing the old zones. Thanks for your argument.

[Talen]

And here is what I am talking about right here. Not all development is supposed to be positive development. The Alliance has been attacked by a Horde that is no longer content to sit in mud huts in a desert. It has faced a much stronger, renewed Horde that has been posed to crush them in every field. But the Alliance held firm, and though formly splintered, has began to unite under the King of Stormwinds command and push back the invading Orcish threat. Right now, the ALLIANCE is standing ready to dealt a swift killing blow to the aggresive Horde Warmachine, and although it does not quite muster the strength to do it alone, the Alliance stands as a grand Beacon of Light and power against the gnarling Horde that ruptures from within.

In short

The Horde attacked the Alliance,
the horde has a civil war
The Alliance helps the horde defeat its leader
The Alliance goes home.

The so-called unity is the unity of not actually being shown in game. Where are the Alliance stories? Where is the Alliance progression?

Not all development needs to be positive....but what development has there been other than the Alliance being allowed to take part in Horde stories?

forget that the ALLIANCE has won the war. And the Horde is now at the Mercy of this glorious Army of Light.

No The Alliance has not won the war, nor will it nor should it and the Horde will never be at the mercy of this glorious Army of Light. You can't treat Horde players like that.

By the same token you shouldn't get Alliance players treated like that.

EJL

[Deleted]

Clearly you know little about your faction and push to much for the negatives.

Night Elves fought back the Orcs in Ashenvale.

They stopped the Forest trolls AND the Undead in the Hinterlands.

They managed to get complete Dominance of Feralas through the building of an even bigger hold.

The Horde Lost their position in the Badlands. They lost their major war efforts Swamp of Sorrows.

The Horde lost much of the Lower Barrens and all of their Thousand Needle pressence.

The Horde lose as a Majoirty in Felwood, seeing as the Night Elves and Worgen establish a large base and the Horde have a few goblin buildings.


The Horde Managed to flesh out a few areas like Southshore and such. But When they attacked a largely neutral area? They got beaten back 90% of the time. The Horde Lost alot of Minor battles, and won a few bigger ones. Look at the Number of zones with Alliance Majority. Look at the number of zones with horde majority. They are the same.

As for the Alliance being united since the start? Show me the Interaction we got between Night Elves and Humans since Vanilla. A few spurts here, a few random groups there.

It was Cataclysm and Pandara that has seen the Sentinels fight in the Alliance army not on their own, but United.

And for the Alliance being Stagnant? Hell, most Vanilla quests for the Humans play around this. The Night Elves did little to defend the vast forests of Ashenvale wholesale, Feralas was also super quiet. Now things have been shook up, you see the Alliance banding together, fighting united on AGGRESSIVE Terms.

They fought the orcs back in Ashenvale? Where? I see there's demolishers at Maestra's Outpost even after completing the quests there, I see Silverwing Outpost is gone, destroyed and wiped. Oh, we didn't lose Astranaar! But now there's a Horde presence on the hill next to it.

Hinterlands partially true, we won in defense. I admit I forgat about that one though.

True, but nobody was really opposing them there, and most certainly not the Horde, I only gave examples where Horde won against Alliance.

In Badlands it wasn't Alliance who won, I mean black dragons won and an avalanche. Alliance has a tent-camp. And in Swamp of Sorrows, again, why couldn't that victory be shown? Why are orcs still there? Where's the phasing to show the Alliance win?

The Horde didn't lose the Thousand Needles due to Alliance, it lost them due to Deathwing. You never had much presence in Lower Barrens to begin with, and you won it back, didn't you destroy the dwarven fortress and cut all supplies coming there from Theramore? And killed the general leading? And killed the other general's son?

What? Felwood? The Alliance always had the worgen camp, it was just a night elf camp that got turned to worgen one. Horde got the goblin camp to counter their loss of their former camp to... themselves, since the undead there was Horde, and the other "night elf" camp is actually Cenarion Circle. Cenarion Circle are neutral, not Alliance.


Gilneas? Yea, they sort of got beaten back after the Alliance sent their full support. But the player worgen never saw this, because they got shipped to Darkshore. I wouldn't even know who Ivar Bloodfang was if I didn't have a Horde character and it seems he's an important character to worgen lore.
Though to counter, the navy of the Alliance failed to capture one boat of orcs (with Thrall) because of the actions of said boat of orcs and one boat of goblins.

ok, in Classic, they weren't working together much.
In Burning Crusade however they were. In Honor Hold if you sit and listen, a dwarf complains about these new "purple elves". Since there's already humans and dwarves and gnomes, only said purple elves aren't represented in that camp, though they are talked about.
Going in Tekkrokar, there's draenei, high elves, humans there in a camp. In Zangarmarsh it's more draenei alone, though trolls are alone too there. Moving along, in Blade's Edge the night elves actually camped with the gnomes, but complained about things blowing up and the gnomes decided to leave, so they did work together for a while. In truth, in most zones, humans, dwarves and gnomes already worked together, so the night elves were the odd ones out so let's point out where they appear. In Northrend, under Bolvar you had night elf troops. The 7th Legion, the elite corps of the Alliance, had night elves. The Alliance army had night elves. The night elves worked with humans in their little camp in Dragonblight against the Scourge (their commander talks with archemage Modera). In Grizzly Hills night elves work to try and save that forest with dwarves mostly etc. Yes, I admit, night elves didn't appear everywhere in the Alliance army, but this is mostly to them being a new addition to the army. Look at draenei and worgen, they also don't appear much now, exceptfor individuals, because they're even newer additions in the Alliance.
It's not about being united, it's that the races needed time to get used to one another.

And humans have improved? Look at Westfall, instead of trying to solve the problems, they were trying to build a wall around the Westfall Tower... until it got burned. Look at Redridge, you have to get Rambo to help because the Alliance can't care much. How are the humans less passive? Oh, because they're in Southern Barrens? They were in Durotar in Classic. Night elves had quests sending you to deliver supplies to the Silverwing Sentinel base, I mean the actual battleground entry and fighting in there, the Horde didn't send you to Warsong Gulch at any point, sure they sent you to wipe some night elves in a tent, but that was it. Night elves sent you to reclaim their wood and kill the orcs, they sent you to kill the undead around, the night elves were anything from passive.

[Talen]

Basically you want Alliance to get a huge presence right next to Horde territory, in every single point you are raising there.

I have no Qualms over Gilneas. If the Horde get a large zone with a large city directly one zone away from an Alliance capital.

I have no Qualms over Stromgarde. If the Horde get a large fortess directly next to one of the level 20 zones of the Alliance.

I have no Qualms over Dalaran. If the Horde get to Plonk a big Horde base directly into a middle tier zone so they can dominate it and fix "Questflow".

You think proximity is an issue? Seriously? Who cares. Especially since the system works both ways. he point is that these would be Alliance stories, driven by Alliance goals within which Alliance players can take part and feel like their faction is doing something to further their own goals.

They don't have to succeed'.They just have to get the Alliance involved.

Things never taken into account by these "Wishes" is they vastly disrupt the Power of Balance, the Power of Balance THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE, by Cataclysm. Because before, the Alliance had much more ground.

A stupid and ridiculously arbitrary reason that attempts in vain to justify an extremely poor and unnecessary overhaul.Game experience is what matters...not how much square footage some fictional factions occupy in the few hours it takes to outlevel the zones.And the game experience would have been improved by letting the Alliance get involved in the story as well.

Or, as an example, do you really think removing any reason for the Worgen to actually be in game and denying the Alliance players a role or participation in the war was a good idea? if you want arbitrary measures such as zone count to matter, then why not simply expand the Horde presence in Alliance zones? An invasion of Darkshire from Stranglethorn for example?

Same thing with the horde. The horde story has been orc centric since the beginning of cata.

The Forsaken have gotten some major storylines. As have the Belfs. The Goblins didn't have much of a story but what thee was is told farly well and they DO have an impact on the Horde, a role and place to call their own. The Trolls have gotten screen time as well. Its really just the Pandaren and Tauren left out.

The Alliance? Gnomes, Worgen and Draenei have done next to nothing and have had just as much impact. The Dwarven presence peters out after L10.And the Pandaren dont really do much either.

EJL

[Sett]

Kul'tiras would be nice. Knowing what Jaina's brother or that kingdom is doing. But that might be a bit too human based.

We need more WoW-born heroes for the Alliance. NPCs that kick ass that aren't human. I think while humans have amazing lore and we do have good heroes, we need to really let the other races shine and take over some key elements for story. Even when the High Elves help it really feels disconnected to most of us because they're not playable.Tyrande and Malfurion are marks that were completely missed from Cata to MoP.

I guess what I am trying to say is I want more races doing stuff besides humans. That'd excite me as an Alliance player.

[Florena]

Kul'tiras would be nice. Knowing what Jaina's brother or that kingdom is doing. But that might be a bit too human based.

We need more WoW-born heroes for the Alliance. NPCs that kick ass that aren't human. I think while humans have amazing lore and we do have good heroes, we need to really let the other races shine and take over some key elements for story. Even when the High Elves help it really feels disconnected to most of us because they're not playable.Tyrande and Malfurion are marks that were completely missed from Cata to MoP.

I guess what I am trying to say is I want more races doing stuff besides humans. That'd excite me as an Alliance player.

I think tides of war said her brother was dead. I'll have to check.

[Sett]

I think tides of war said her brother was dead. I'll have to check.

Her eldest brother was killed. There is another that was left behind. Her half-sister was retconned I believe.

[Talen]

Night Elves fought back the Orcs in Ashenvale.

No, they didn't. The Alliance story stopped at the point they were getting organised for a counter strike.

They stopped the Forest trolls AND the Undead in the Hinterlands.

They stopped a small strike force from an over extended military and essentially retained the status quo.

They managed to get complete Dominance of Feralas through the building of an even bigger hold.

They got a few big buildings and an army they don't use.

The Horde Lost their position in the Badlands. They lost their major war efforts Swamp of Sorrows.

The former was not due to Alliance involvement. The latter ends up with zero change actually occurring.

The Horde lost much of the Lower Barrens and all of their Thousand Needle pressence.

And then regained it. The Alliance lost there.And 1000 needles is sill essentially horde owned.

The Horde lose as a Majoirty in Felwood, seeing as the Night Elves and Worgen establish a large base and the Horde have a few goblin buildings.

The Worgen do nothing and the situation results in no major change from Vanilla.

EJL

[Deleted]

In a thread called "A thought to increase Alliance excitement WITHOUT REDOING OLD ZONES" you give three options where all of them are redoing the old zones. Thanks for your argument.

Fine. Then let the Alliance get the kill on Garrosh and then put his corpse on a pike in Stormwind or somewhere. That doesn't require redoing old zones and is acceptable.