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  1. #1

    Why have Prot palas not been nerfed?

    Am I the only one thats finding this teir to be a huge cock block if you dont have a palading tank?

    So many fights are completely changed, and made 10x easier if you have a prot pala, its becoming such a joke trying to compete with other raid groups just because of this.

    For example, Horridon you can completly ignore the tank swap, and the pala will do so much healing hes basically a 3rd tank
    Tortos can be 1 tanked with a prot pala.. again huge healing to the raid
    Megaera can be 1 tanked with a prot pala.. the pala basically does the same healing as an actual healer (lol)
    Durumu can be 1 tanked 2 healed with the use of bops and again... stupidly high raid healing.
    Iron Qon once again can be 1 tanked with bops and extra raid healing.


    Am I completely missing something? Are prot palas really not what they seem? Why havnt blizzard nerfed them yet?


    I feel like our 522 prot warrior should just re-roll to his 500 ilvl prot paladin and probably be a way better tank, then we can cheese all the encounters like every other guild.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Zell the Stormbreaker's Avatar
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    Are paladins too strong? Yes.

    Will they be nerfed? No.

    Essentially, the design team believes paladins should be the best tanks in the game and they've maintained this belief since WotLK (outside of a patch or two). It's unfortunate if you play another class, but it's just the way it is.

    Cue "all tanks are tanking all the content" as an attempt at misdirection from a tank topping damage and healing meters while having utility to die for.

  3. #3
    everythinig you mention here canbe done by any other tank if you have 1 or 2 paladins in the group, they dont have to be prot.

    Tortos can be solo tanked by anyone regardless of being a paladin.

    Megaera can be solo tanked by any tank as well, it has nothing to do with paladin abilities.

    Durumu, can be solo tanked/ 2healed with any tank, youu just need 1 paladin in the group

    Iron Qon can be solo tanked by any tank, you just need 1 paladin in the grp.


    You're complaining about an issue that does not exist.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathruler11 View Post
    For example, Horridon you can completly ignore the tank swap, and the pala will do so much healing hes basically a 3rd tank
    Tortos can be 1 tanked with a prot pala.. again huge healing to the raid
    Megaera can be 1 tanked with a prot pala.. the pala basically does the same healing as an actual healer (lol)
    Durumu can be 1 tanked 2 healed with the use of bops and again... stupidly high raid healing.
    Iron Qon once again can be 1 tanked with bops and extra raid healing.
    We tank with a Monk and a Prot warrior in our 10 man guild (12/12) and we have no problem doing these strats. We 1 tank 2 heal Durumu with our Ret speccing into Clemency. We can do ALL these strats by our ret speccing into Clemancy.

    Prot warriors are fine. Paladins are strong right now, but that is no reason to nerf them into the ground.
    Last edited by Bucknazty; 2013-04-29 at 09:54 PM.
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  5. #5
    Their raid healing already took a 33% hit on PTR iirc. Their clearing of debuffs has nothing to do with being prot.

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  6. #6
    Actually they did nerf Prot Paladin's raid healing back in I believe 5.1, when they made Seal of Light/Glyph of Battle Healer not trigger on the AoE component of skills like Hammer of the Righteous (and Divine Storm for Ret). In addition Glyph of the Battle Healer is taking a 10% nerf in 5.3 as well (from 30% to 20%).
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  7. #7
    I totaly agree with u. Paladins are OP, not just by a little bit. By a huge amount.

    I as a healer, when playing with a Pala tank it feels like they take zero damage compared to other tanks
    They can use CDso the other tanks take less damage
    And most of all the Healing bit is insane.

    A few bosses can easily be 2 man healed for us if we got paladin tank, while if we dont we need to go with 3 healers instead.
    Playing with 3 healers and 1 paladin tank must be what heaven feels like
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  8. #8
    I think people in general are hallucinating about paladins being too high in raid healing. If you actually examine the heal/s numbers on a real parse, Battle Insight only usually comes out to somewhere between 20%-25% of the paladin's heal/s. The remainder of it is going to be predominantly Sacred Shield and Seal of Insight, which are components of the damage intake balance which happen to be scored as "healing" by the methodology of looking at a heal meter. If those components were removed hypothetically, you would immediately feel like Paladins were the worst tank, because those are not somehow bonus heal/s numbers, that's part of the class balance as a whole.

    Furthermore, if you examine the actual damage input characteristics, paladins are not OP whatsoever, in fact in reality they take more damage on average at a given gear level than most of the other classes. The reason that we perceive them as OP is just two factors --

    1) Most tank-killing encounters in current content have telegraphed physical attacks that SotR can be proactively lined up for; and
    2) Most tank-killing encounters in current content have a stacking debuff that can be Bubbled/BoP'ed.

    #2 is not necessarily unique to having a paladin tank, it just requires paladins in the raid and intelligent /cancelaura macros from the tanking player.

    #1 is not an issue with class balance whatsoever, it's on the encounter designers.

    The same exact nonsense was happening when DK's were mandatory in pre-nerf Dragonsoul heroics and Ulduar hardmodes, but the typical exaggerrators you find complaining on the internet conveniently don't remember that.
    Last edited by underdogba; 2013-04-29 at 09:57 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathruler11 View Post
    Am I the only one thats finding this teir to be a huge cock block if you dont have a palading tank?

    So many fights are completely changed, and made 10x easier if you have a prot pala, its becoming such a joke trying to compete with other raid groups just because of this.

    For example, Horridon you can completly ignore the tank swap, and the pala will do so much healing hes basically a 3rd tank
    Tortos can be 1 tanked with a prot pala.. again huge healing to the raid
    Megaera can be 1 tanked with a prot pala.. the pala basically does the same healing as an actual healer (lol)
    Durumu can be 1 tanked 2 healed with the use of bops and again... stupidly high raid healing.
    Iron Qon once again can be 1 tanked with bops and extra raid healing.


    Am I completely missing something? Are prot palas really not what they seem? Why havnt blizzard nerfed them yet?


    I feel like our 522 prot warrior should just re-roll to his 500 ilvl prot paladin and probably be a way better tank, then we can cheese all the encounters like every other guild.
    tortos can be 1 tanked by more than just prot paladins. there just the best at it. Horridon who runs a 10 man guild without atleast a holy paly? cause with a holy paladin you could ignore 3/4 of the swaps and door 1 is a joke. meagara is harder to setup 1 tank than 2 cause you need your raids to not be idiots and multidot at all. durumu again we did it on heroic with me playing ret and our monk tanking with my bops cause her 210k dps< my 150k dps. Iron qon you can do as a dwarf with no bop's honestly. I only drop the debuff twice on heroic once before windstorm once before the triple dog gang bang. not saying that prot paladins arn't strong but its more warriors/dk's/bears need buffs cause Monk tanks are just as strong as paladins right now and not that paladins need nerfs. Or you know blizz could just start making debuffs that don't go away through bubble/BOP
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  10. #10
    This is how it feels like playing with a Paladin tank, srsly
    http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/01/09/le...s-gets-vengea/
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  11. #11
    Pretty much everything you have said is doable by other tanks with any Paladin, our healing is op but that's because of vengeance and sacrifices damage as well somewhat. Prot Paladins haven't really been op before either and they will never be able to balance all classes the same. There will always be a class that is better at one of the roles available. They are nerfing our glyph of the battle healer by 10% next patch which is a huge amount, they nerfed our hammer of the righteous with seal of insight. They finally made Prot Paladins fun in MOP, and it wasn't intended for them to be this way, people just managed to find it out and that it's a really good way to play/fun at the same time. I'm pretty sure all the tactics you're talking about are normal, which most of the tactics can now be cheesed anyhow, there's no way you can 1 tank Megaera heroic either. If they nerf the whole haste thing I'm not sure if i'll even want to keep playing my paladin as I enjoy the play style.

  12. #12
    Monks and Paladins are both incredibly strong, while Prot warriors and Blood DK's are both quite weak. Bears seem to me to really be where I'd expect a tank to be from a healers perspective. They're not a joke to keep alive, but I don't feel like they're underwhelming either. I think Paladins and Monks should take a hit, and warr/dk a buff.

    The major problem you're talking about though is not a prot paladin issue, it's a HoP issue. HoP removes the broodlord debuff on Horridon. Awesome. Takes away a dot that hits fairly hard, but certainly that's no reason to feel like you'd be silly to not bring a paladin. It also removes the tank debuff that forces tank swaps and massively increases the incoming damage, particularly in the final phase. What? Why on earth is that a thing?

    I expect in T16 they'll have learned their lesson. Expect HoP to do significantly less in the way of removing debuffs that impact tank swapping. To be clear though--this has absolutely nothing to do with tank balance, and much more to do with poor planning on Blizzard's part about the implications having HoP removeable physical type debuffs would have on the strategies guild use (and their impact on encounter difficulty)

  13. #13
    Paladins take slightly more damage then other tanking classes because the damage reduction from armor is lower then with other tanking classes, what makes them better is being able to keep the damage consistent through using SotR for the high damage abilities (Talon Rake, Snapping Bite, Triple Puncture, etc.), in general on fights that have to be 2-tanked I take slightly more damage then our blood dk.

    Most Paladin healing is from sacred shield (~25%) and seal of insight(~40%-55%) which only heals ourselves, look up any logs on world of logs and find me anyone that has more then 30% of their heals from battle insight on the raid, its not very likely you will find it.

    On another note if your paladin tank is pulling more hps then your healers you should probably replace them there is not a single fight that I solo tank I ever pull more hps then any of the healers in my group.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Wasn't the paladin in the world first Lei Shen kill a prot warr doing #1 dps and #1 healing? Or was that because of some tank specific buff?

  15. #15
    Someone crying about Paladins while knowing essentially nothing about them and complaining about things that are in no way Tank exclusive.

    Alert the presses!

  16. #16
    Fact: Any tank can solo-tank Horridon with external HoPs.
    Fact: Any tank can solo-tank Megaera.
    Fact: Any tank can solo-tank Durumu with external HoPs.
    Fact: Any tank can solo-tank Iron Qon with external HoPs.

    Am I completely missing something, or are you bitching about HoP instead of prot paladins?

  17. #17
    I wouldn't say prot is ridiculously OP, but it is very strong. In fact, there's little arguing that it's the strongest tank to take. It's also not just because of 1 thing, like BOP or anything - as mentioned, any paladin brings that. It's basically everything, combined in 1 package, in a 1 class. That's what makes protdins strong. Their damage, healing, and vast vast vast utility is not something you can just ignore.

    That doesn't mean paladins are the best tank in every situation. As recently proven by Paragon I think it was they used a monk tank for Lei Shen, as an example. Every tank has perks. Every tank is perfectly viable. Every tank is good. It's just that protdins have unusually many perks. So, what this does mean you're more likely to find a paladin tank in most serious comps, because ignoring the benefit of having a protdin is just shooting yourself in the foot. Especially in 10mans, more paladins is more happiness. Having a protdin and holydin is just a very good thing to have. Add to this the gearing advantage of a protdin over pretty much any tank (unless you run with rets for some reason), and serious comps will likely choose a protdin as one of their tanks.

    It's not enough to justify a nerfhammer, but enough to justify some tweaks, which is what seems to be happening on PTR at least.

  18. #18
    I think not only prot palas, but all the tanks should have their ridiculous raid healing abilities removed.
    You know, we have roles in this game for a reason. And it is not very funny when tank role contributes 40-45% of the damage dealer and 40-45+% of a healer. Let all roles do their job, please. If you need tanks to do raid saves, let them have raid-wide "minus XX% damage" cooldown, but please, stop that nonsence with tanks healing raid and damaging like a damage dealers. Please.

  19. #19
    This happen all the time. Normally it is DKs that get to cheese fights, if it isn't them it is normally pallies. Somebody has to be the best this is nothing new.
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  20. #20
    Are prot paladins good? Yes
    Do they need a bigger nerf then the one to battle healer? No
    Is HoP to OP this tier? Yes , Can't really fix it anymore now tho, to many guillds build a tactic around HoP.

    Also monk shielding is pretty sick right now aswell in 10man so.

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