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  1. #221
    Keyboard Turner Ammonex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    What exactly does "thinking about aggro & healing" entail, exactly? Healing is almost completely passive and threat is never an issue.

    Personally I think tanks are overemphasized in raids right now. Vengeance allows us to match any dps on any fight or handily beat them on most encounters. It makes it fun for us but where's the satisfaction that a rogue gets from doing a perfectly 2cp rupture/fok rotation on 4 targets when the brewmaster is like "lol keg smash" and he does double the damage? How does a healer get enjoyment out of the game when they min/max their cascade/poh/uplift/healing rain etc., sub in a complex aoe healing rotation when the prot pally drops a light's hammer and does 5 million healing with one gcd?

    I honestly think vengeance should just be capped at a tenth of the current value, maybe small modifications depending on what difficulty level you're playing at.
    Are you serious? Match any dps? You're wrong here.

    Are you talking about Prot paladins? Because I thought that that's what this thread was about, not Monk keg smash.

    Yes, healing is passive mostly with Battle healer and Seal of Insight. However, there are still Word of Glory's that a Prot paladin with 2pc can cast for the 2-set bonus.

    Threat issues? For me personally, I feel like my threat is weaker (as a prot paladin) compared to our Blood DK.

  2. #222
    Tankadins are the best at tanking and healadins are the best at pvp healing to offset retadins being sub par to everything.

    It is the way of the Warcraft.

  3. #223
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well, I am not saying that tank 'should' be above DPS persay, just saying that I do not see any problems with it. Enrages are balanced around both tanks doing their dps and dpsers doing their dps. If tanks to 50k or 200k doesnt matter, if dps does 100k or 500k doesnt matter, the enrages are balanced around it. All I know is that tanking right now is at its most fun since you actually feel valuable and contributing to raid when your DPS actually matters, you have to perform your dps rotation well as a tank nowadays, which for me, is at it should be. Current vengeance model makes balancing tank dps for fight to fight very hard, but I think that tanks dps should be atleast on/near the level of dpsers dps to prevent tanking to become way to boring.
    As a tank, I do not compare my DPS with DPS classes, I compare it with other tanks.
    Likewise, DPSers should not compare there dps with tanks, but with other dps classes, and not be completely butthurt if tanks are above them on one fight.

    Right, my view is regarding an overall balance thing, nothing to do with this topic.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    #1 Paladin: Айказайка, took 75 million damage in a 9:33 fight but healed 38 mil of it himself; healers needed to heal him for 37 million.
    #1 Warrior: Rangoon, took 80 million damage in a 9:35 fight but healed 4 mil of it himself; healers needed to heal him for 76 million.
    #1 Druid: Миноравр, took 80 million damage in a 10:25 fight but healed 7 mil of it himself; healers needed to heal him for 73 million.
    #1 DK: Nekrofiend, took 106 million damage in a 11:40 fight but healed 46 mil of it himself; healers needed to heal him for 60 million.
    #1 Monk: Phurionmonk, took 75 million damage in a 10:06 fight but healed 20 mil of it himself; healers needed to heal him for 55 million.

    (these aren't outliers, feel free to check ranks 2-10. I did.)
    pls dont tell me you used the dps nr 1 ranks on iron qon to compare dmg taken and healing done. This is the worst possible example you could have picked. The druid has used his SD 9 imes on a 10m plus fight. A Warlock glyphed tank would have taken less dmg^^.


    So all that stuff is totally worthless.

    paladins do alot of dmg and not needing to worry about mitigation cause on is a 30 second buff the other one does dmg. nr1 pala has nice uptimes, so paladin is legit.
    Only looking at the druids with uptimes on SD, where you can actually say he indeed tryed to mitigate some dmg, it looks really different.

    Not even looking at the other classes, this post made my day thank you.

    Here is another one.

    Mage took 700k dmg instant, 10min fight, selfhealed 100k , healers had to heal him up for 0. best tank ingame.

    (these aren't outliers, feel free to check ranks 2-10. I did.), I did and you are so wrong. Just looking at some other top10 from other classes still, wow this is so, "i pick what i want so paladin looks good and the rest looks really bad." This is like the worst post on this topic, even the ones just saying "pala op pls nerf" are better than this.

    The only thing your posts shows is that paladins AM does dmg. What a surprise. Let me quess, a paladin heals himself and the raid aswell, when he is doing dmg.

    Sorry dont want to be mean but not even looking at every class or log in detail i can tell you that what you did there, is the worst way to compare DMG taken between classes. The top 4 druids have uptime on SD which would be not really good on a bossfights which you are tanking all by yourself, comparing to a paladin who has uptimes near perfection. The uptime on the nr1 druid is so bad, he only wanted to be rank1. You would never have a chance with a druid like this killing the boss for the first time without taking 1-2 more healers. If you watn to compare the nr protpala to a maybe a druid find one with uptimes with alteast 55% uptime if not 60% uptime on SD, then you can compare both.


    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    To this part I can only answer WTF.

    Not to pop anyone's party, but all tank rotations are equally dumb. Obviously skill have influence, but if this gibberish means they pull higher dps because the rotation is more complex, welll... It takes 1 hour /played to do a perfect a rotation on any tank. At least a warrior have to decide what to do with rage on execute. Oh, the pressure.
    First part is true, dont believe me, look at logs. armoury, guides, etc.

    Easy to learn yes, maybe protwarrior is easy aswell. but really mastering it is the key. Paladin have alot of buttons, knowing when to push one at the right time and still keep shield on a very high uptime, its not that easy, you will not learn this 1hr /played. As a druid you have to watch for proccs, try to keep dotuptime as high as possible, ofc you can just put the 4 buttons on a castsequence makro, but you will miss out on mangleprocs loose dps hitting thrash and not FF or FF not thrash. You dont just use execute on warriors and dont care about AM anymore, you could but would die alot.
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-05-03 at 12:22 AM.

  5. #225
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Our Brewmaster monk was getting cracked on Primordius. He was getting globaled. Literally. He was ilvl 514. We brought his prot paladin instead. Ilvl 493. Got him on the first try with his prot paladin. 17 ILVL LESS. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. It was great. I laughed and laughed and laughed. It's still funny. Their OP and I love it. You shouldn't be complaining about it. You should abuse the crap out of it.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-05-03 at 05:08 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Our Brewmaster monk was getting cracked on Primordius. He was getting globaled. Literally. He was ilvl 514. We brought his prot paladin instead. Ilvl 493. Got him on the first try with his prot paladin. 17 ILVL LESS. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. It was great. I laughed and laughed and laughed. It's still funny. Their OP and I love it. You shouldn't be complaining about it. You should abuse the crap out of it.
    493 ilvl? Okay so you mean normal and not heroic?

    Then your tank was just not as good with monk as he maybe should've been. Because really, there is not that much difference anyway.

  7. #227
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    493 ilvl? Okay so you mean normal and not heroic?

    Then your tank was just not as good with monk as he maybe should've been. Because really, there is not that much difference anyway.
    Yea normal. It's the same player. He's phenomenal with both. He's literally tanked every other fight in that dungeon no problem. Monks just get cracked on that fight. Healing his paladin was 10 million times easier.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #228
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    Easy to learn yes, maybe protwarrior is easy aswell. but really mastering it is the key. Paladin have alot of buttons, knowing when to push one at the right time and still keep shield on a very high uptime, its not that easy, you will not learn this 1hr /played. As a druid you have to watch for proccs, try to keep dotuptime as high as possible, ofc you can just put the 4 buttons on a castsequence makro, but you will miss out on mangleprocs loose dps hitting thrash and not FF or FF not thrash. You dont just use execute on warriors and dont care about AM anymore, you could but would die alot.
    Kinda stopped reading after paladins have alot of buttons.
    Best joke today, really made my day, i literally have HALF (20 or so less keybinds) on my paladin compared to warrior...

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Kinda stopped reading after paladins have alot of buttons.
    Best joke today, really made my day, i literally have HALF (20 or so less keybinds) on my paladin compared to warrior...
    Which is funny because I have 6 classes at 90 (warrior, hunter, paladin, warlock, priest, DK), and paladin is the only one that actually needs 5 action bars for me. I can mention 20 keybinds for you on paladins just on the top of my head.


    CS, HotR, AS, HW, HoW, Cons, J, SotR, WoG, SS, T6 talent, SoI, SoT, SoR, Reckoning, Rebuke, BoM, BoK, fist of justice, RF cast/cancel.
    Okay, so that is 20 binds without even starting with cooldowns, but hey maybe you play without them. But some more

    DProt, GoAK, AD, DA, BoP, HoSalv, HoSac, HoF, DS, SoL, LoH, BL, Cleanse, AW, HA, HoPur

    That is 16 more.

    Now we are not even getting macros which paladins got use of a ton of cancelaura macros and similar. Also, having 2-3 different macros for cast@targets with you hands for certain fights etc. etc. Not mentioning pots and stuff because that is equally shared between all classes.

    So first you are gonna need a cancelaura for BoP/Bubble. Another one for Salv.
    Had som fights having to have 3 different BoPs and 3 different HoSac binds. The very least you should have is 2. (1 for you, 1 for the other tank). Etc etc, can easily bring your key binds up to 50+ when you add all together.
    Also gonna need a bind for HoSalv on the other tank and yourself.

    So if you manage to play a paladin with 20 key binds, I really have no idea how you are playing your paladin.
    The only class that nearly rivals my paladin in keybinds is the hunter, simply due to the insane amount of macros needed for a hunter.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yea normal. It's the same player. He's phenomenal with both. He's literally tanked every other fight in that dungeon no problem. Monks just get cracked on that fight. Healing his paladin was 10 million times easier.
    Sorry, but if he was getting Globaled on primordius on his Monk, he is not a phenomenal Monk. He might be a good Paladin, but there is no way in hell he's a good monk if he's dying that easily with that gear. My Monk was only 505ish when I did primordius and the logs showed that I took more damage than my Paladin co-tank, but the healers commented that I was far easier to heal (less spikes), I don't think I ever dropped under 50%, and when I did I could heal it back myself.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Our Brewmaster monk was getting cracked on Primordius. He was getting globaled. Literally. He was ilvl 514. We brought his prot paladin instead. Ilvl 493. Got him on the first try with his prot paladin. 17 ILVL LESS. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. It was great. I laughed and laughed and laughed. It's still funny. Their OP and I love it. You shouldn't be complaining about it. You should abuse the crap out of it.
    Yeah sure, globalled. This is from the pala healer that couldn't heal megara "because you have to move and stuff" Forgive me if I take the stuff you spew with a pinch of salt.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Our Brewmaster monk was getting cracked on Primordius. He was getting globaled. Literally. He was ilvl 514. We brought his prot paladin instead. Ilvl 493. Got him on the first try with his prot paladin. 17 ILVL LESS. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. It was great. I laughed and laughed and laughed. It's still funny. Their OP and I love it. You shouldn't be complaining about it. You should abuse the crap out of it.
    That was normal, and your monk got globaled. If its the same player doenst mean he can play both. How did he die. If he had alot of stack plus the huge dot primordius gets from evolution, and didnt use a cooldown, almost every tank will die. A brewmaster due to dodge should take less dmg on that fight than a pala. So you say Palas are op, cause your brewmaster monk died. Funny almost everyone thinks that they are almost on the same lvl. If you have to change from 514 monk to 493 paladin on a NH fight where brewmasters are equal to palas maybe even better. And say its not the player but the class, plus the ilvl difference, there has to be something.


    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Kinda stopped reading after paladins have alot of buttons.
    Best joke today, really made my day, i literally have HALF (20 or so less keybinds) on my paladin compared to warrior...
    I do have a warrior Tank and a Palatank. Good thing you stopped reading, its about dps skills, I quess you have logs to prove that you really play your paladin on a high lvl, and do alot of dps.
    If you are telling me you literaly have 20 less keybindings on you pala that do dps, how is that possible cause you dont even have so many spells to use for dmg.
    Writing two sentences and even admitting you didnt read the whole text picking out 5 words, saying you use half the skills on you pala than on you warrior, and not providing any prove that you infact are pushing the right buttons/maximizing dps and shield uptime,kinda just proves my point.
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-05-03 at 08:36 AM.

  13. #233
    Going back to the main point of this thread to begin with:

    I can answer why Prot paladins have not been nerfed.

    It's because Warrior Defensive stance is getting buffed.

    And also because the Blizz systems developers understand at least a little bit more than moutbreathers getting fired up misinterpreting what numbers in Recount/Skada or WoL parses actually mean in the context of overall survivability.

  14. #234
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    CS, HotR, AS, HW, HoW, Cons, J, SotR, WoG, SS, T6 talent, SoI, SoT, SoR, Reckoning, Rebuke, BoM, BoK, fist of justice, RF cast/cancel.
    Out of plain curiosity,

    Question 1: When do you actually push SoT or SoR post-nerf? (really)
    Question 2: When do you actually have to cancel RF? (no, really). Then of course if you don't, you don't actually need a bind for RF.
    Question 3: Do you actually use both BoK and BoM binds? Personally I just bind the one that I need to use (typically BoK since in raid, shamans will bring BoM).

    Quote Originally Posted by underdogba View Post
    I can answer why Prot paladins have not been nerfed.

    It's because Warrior Defensive stance is getting buffed.
    Is this even a serious post? (If it is, read the patchnotes more carefully).
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-05-03 at 09:33 AM.

  15. #235
    @voidspark i think he was just trying to prove a point. Of course mains have better keybinding, Still I play both, Tankwarrior and Protpala both as alts, lvling a monktank. Im not saying im perfect in any way, but I do know that maxdps rotation while maintaining uptimes and using SotR wisely cant be learn in 1hr/played, and they have alot more dps skill to use than a warrior.

    I play my a druid since vanilla started tanking karazhan, raided top30 BT and Sunwell as a tank. Got logged as a catdruid in ulduar on almost every fight top50 was still Tank but we had so many tanks in our 25m group. I still get ranks as a druid last tier and this tier. Druid rotation is really easy, but perfecting dps without losing any mitigation optimizing rage usage I could do alot more. Sometimes I have the problem that my other tanks dont do any aggro even with vengeance, and i have to stop attacking thats another point. My dotuptime could be alot better, beeing a RL always distracts a bit even when a fight goes well. Sometimes I concentrate to much on boss mechanics that really dont matter that much.


    On one tortos nh kill i tanked tortos, as a druid, I concentrate on dps but mostly on SD uptime, and after the fight i looked at the logs, and had 68.7% uptime on SD, after I used calculated how much would have been possible, due to fight length. It would have been 69.8%. My uptimes on dots where quite good aswell. But I hardly doubt i would be able to do that on a heroic fight when learning the new mechanics and stuff like that.

  16. #236
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halifax View Post
    Sorry, but if he was getting Globaled on primordius on his Monk, he is not a phenomenal Monk. He might be a good Paladin, but there is no way in hell he's a good monk if he's dying that easily with that gear. My Monk was only 505ish when I did primordius and the logs showed that I took more damage than my Paladin co-tank, but the healers commented that I was far easier to heal (less spikes), I don't think I ever dropped under 50%, and when I did I could heal it back myself.
    He is a phenomenal monk. He just gets smacked on that fight and his paladin doesn't. I don't care or need to have my guild reviewed by players on forums who don't know what the fuck they are talking about. The paladin was easier to heal. In fact we found the opposite from your experience. Not only did the paladin take less dmg, he took less spike dmg (even in his shitty ilvl) he also self healed for alot more and healing him was much easier. The paladin in almost 20 item level less killed the fucking boss. .

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 09:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Yeah sure, globalled. This is from the pala healer that couldn't heal megara "because you have to move and stuff" Forgive me if I take the stuff you spew with a pinch of salt.
    I don't really care what you take for granted or not. We one shot meg now (in fact as soon as out dps got some gear we started one shotting it regularly) and it was precisely because we ignored assholes on forums who did nothing but critique our raid and play style. I take anything you say as down right stupidity so I guess were about even. See while I may be upset about how difficult they've made this tier, I also don't quit regardless of what assholes on forums may take with a "grain of salt" or not.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 09:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    That was normal, and your monk got globaled. If its the same player doenst mean he can play both. How did he die. If he had alot of stack plus the huge dot primordius gets from evolution, and didnt use a cooldown, almost every tank will die. A brewmaster due to dodge should take less dmg on that fight than a pala. So you say Palas are op, cause your brewmaster monk died. Funny almost everyone thinks that they are almost on the same lvl. If you have to change from 514 monk to 493 paladin on a NH fight where brewmasters are equal to palas maybe even better. And say its not the player but the class, plus the ilvl difference, there has to be something.


    Dodge is a funny thing. If he doesn't dodge he gets crushed. He wasn't dodging. We took his paladin in. Killed the boss with him having 14 item levels less. Paladins don't need a nerf clearly even though they out preform all tank specs. I get the feeling most people here abuse the crap out of prot paladins and don't want to see it go away and that's fine. I say get on board while you can. Brewmasters are not equal to paladins on that fight. No tank is equal to paladins this tier. Simple as that. Enjoy it while you can. Blizzard will nerf them, it's as simple as that. Then you'll all look around and agree they needed a nerf because your all geniuses in hindsight or worse you'll rage on the official forums about how unwarranted this is because you've all been abusing the crap out of it to progress your raid. Either way I'm glad we got on board and can enjoy it while it's here. 5.4 will see some big changes I think.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-05-03 at 10:11 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Out of plain curiosity,

    Question 1: When do you actually push SoT or SoR post-nerf? (really)
    Question 2: When do you actually have to cancel RF? (no, really). Then of course if you don't, you don't actually need a bind for RF.
    Question 3: Do you actually use both BoK and BoM binds? Personally I just bind the one that I need to use (typically BoK since in raid, shamans will bring BoM).
    1. This tier, SoT almost never, SoR primordius. So yeah, in this tier those are very situational. I have somtimes used SoT on Durumu. But still enough time for me to have it bound. Last tier it was used extremely frequently.
    2. Every fight with tank swaps.
    3. Yeah, fast buffing after people getting combat ressed, whichever I am assigned to. Typically BoK as you say but not always shamans in 10 man raids.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-05-03 at 10:32 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    He is a phenomenal monk. He just gets smacked on that fight and his paladin doesn't. I don't care or need to have my guild reviewed by players on forums who don't know what the fuck they are talking about. The paladin was easier to heal. The paladin in almost 20 item level less killed the fucking boss. That's all that counts.
    Well he was not the only one telling you that it wasn about the class. Noone said you should exchange him but do you really think, on all raid monktanks are very strong, except in your Raid.
    Your Tank cant be as bad cause he killed the boss with a 493 palatank, on of our first kills we killed it with a warrior that had ilvl 498. In terms of mitigation not even a pala is that good and takes less dmg if not played correctly, than a 514 geared monk or any other class. Still you dont see it. Do you even know why the Monk died so fast? Maybe he didnt use a cooldown at the right time, to many dotstacks cause the other tank didnt taunt. there are so many reason why he could have died so fast(well not to say i believe he got globalled), and none of them even slightly say he is a bad monk or a bad player.

    You posted that, people tell you your monk did something wrong, nobodys perfect, so about 5-6 people tell you that, still you say it isnt true, mainly cause he a friend of yours. why not take the criticique, look at logs or recount to look up how he died, maybe next time a pala will not help you on another fight, cause your monk did that same mistake again, and his pala doenst have the gear. .
    There is no way of saying that you wouldnt have killed the boss with the monk aswell. Cause everything you told us points to that you could have. Mitigation wise no tank is so far ahead that an ilvl difference of 20points lets you take less dmg than the one 20ilvl above you. As a prot, with that gear you are mostlikely hit and exp capped, dont have alot of mastery, and haste is not that high either. So either he does not play his monk as good as his pala, or he died of very bad RNG and any other tank would have died there too.

    And im ignoring the fact that monks are the class that gets bursted the least.

    And lets not forget your data that says paladin are OP and they should be nerfed comes from 1 person you like and he cant be a bad monk, cause you killed 1 boss with a low geared paladin instead of an "OK" geared Monk. On a fight where Tankdmg isn the real problem on nh, monk may even be a bit better at same ilvl, due to the mechanics of the fight cause monsk scale well with all the buffs you can get, pala only with haste mastery. And dodge/parry are so strong on that fight, and with haste and crit the monk has alot of dodge plus the parry he gains automaticly, both prevent the dot from stacking, blocks or SotR will not.
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-05-03 at 10:54 AM.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    He is a phenomenal monk. He just gets smacked on that fight and his paladin doesn't. I don't care or need to have my guild reviewed by players on forums who don't know what the fuck they are talking about. The paladin was easier to heal. In fact we found the opposite from your experience. Not only did the paladin take less dmg, he took less spike dmg (even in his shitty ilvl) he also self healed for alot more and healing him was much easier. The paladin in almost 20 item level less killed the fucking boss.
    Still says nothing. Your player was obviously better at playing paladin than monk. In another group that paladin geared with 514 gear is dieng and the monk with 20 item levels lower is killing the boss.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoskadosk View Post
    If Blizzard went back to "stand in front of boss and keep aggro" it would be the most stupid thing they could ever do. Tanking in TBC and ICC was a snoozefest, on Loatheb (Naxx) I even went AFK once everyone had the buff because there was nothing else to do since no one did any threat. Oh, and on Blood Queen I was reading on forums and watching videos on YouTube until air phase. Very exciting stuff.

    For once it's actually engaging to tank, because not only do you need to think about your aggro, you need to think about your damage, healing and raid utility. Paying that extra attention to trinket procs and timing DPS cooldowns with Hero and pots actually matters now, it makes a difference. How can that be wrong?

    We're not here to "take your jobs", what has happened is that Blizzard has given us a larger role than before, our performance is much more important now than ever. If you're on top of progression, your damage, healing and raidwide CDs can make or break a fight. How is just standing still and pressing 2 buttons better than that?
    Lol no, I'm in no way defending taunt-spamming pre-mop stamina bots. Tank gameplay is actually nice now, I'm loving active mitigation and things. But what I don't support, is tanks being top on dps/hps meters. Because think of it: I really can understand that you're having tons of fun while having #1 positions on meters, but ask yourself: do your fellow raiders who heal/dps have the same fun while watching tank doing their job with passive abilities?
    And please, spare me the GC crap about meters nonrelevant. Meters ARE relevant.

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