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  1. #521
    I'd be fine (thrilled) if they just made it so that critical attacks on tanks give the same veng as non-criticals.
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  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    I know I don't want a single buff on my DK. Our mitigation system is still the most interesting and the less prone to abuse out of all the tank specs, works completely fine in the new MoP model, and our damage is fine.
    Do you know of a log where a Blood DK solo tanks Ra-den for the entire fight? I'd love to see how Blood Shield compares to ShoR or Shuffle for Fatal Strike.

  3. #523
    Going to try Vengeance cap at 30% health (down from 100%) in 10s and 50% of health in 25s. This is a big change, so might be 5.4, not 5.3.
    Well, the fun is out the window.

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  4. #524
    just nerf prot pala healing spells by 50% and its fine

  5. #525
    I am Murloc! nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not sure if srs, or if it'll stick, but as I was suggesting earlier, this seems like the most elegant fix to the "issue". Wish they'd toss in the "no longer get vengeance from fire/environment damage" part of my suggestion too, but hey, it's a start.
    I don't think it's an elegant fix, I think it's a band-aid fix. Either a cap is likely not to be reached easily (in which case it might as well not be there) or if it is reached easily, it defeats the purpose of Vengeance.

    Hence my reasoning behind reworking the ability entirely in 6.0 (possibly removing it), it seems to be creating more problems than it's solving now.

  6. #526
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    The Vengeance cap will only affect stuff like people Solo tanking heroic bosses and stuff like that as reaching your Vengeance Cap (even at 30%) will be very hard (while 2-tanking).
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  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    just nerf prot pala healing spells by 50% and its fine
    Wouldn't change much, if anything at all. Half our healing is overheal anyway.


    But I'm sure you already knew that, because you've dug through combatlogs, skada reports and talked to a few protection paladins about their self-healing.

    Oh wait...
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  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    The Vengeance cap will only affect stuff like people Solo tanking heroic bosses and stuff like that as reaching your Vengeance Cap (even at 30%) will be very hard (while 2-tanking).
    For me in 10man that is 201000AP in vengeance, almost every encounter on heroic in the zone i pass that point when trying to optimise vengeance just saying.

  9. #529
    Since this seems to have turned into a general tanking discussion thread.

    Do warriors need a huge DPS/TPS boost, or has every warrior I've ever tanked with just been doing something wrong? They all seemed to know what they were doing, and were definitely good players, but every time I've tanked with a warrior (as a druid) I've had to hold back quite significantly while offtanking, or risk stealing aggro back. This can be a bit frustrating, as I'm not able to play my own class to its full potential while tanking alongside a warrior.

    I've never had this same problem when tanking alongside monks or paladins.

  10. #530
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    I think you're right Akylios.

    I've been tanking on my Warrior lately and while I usually take less damage than anyone else my DPS/TPS isn't enough to compete and if I can't pop DPS cools for a tankswap I need to have the other tank tone down his DPS a bit so I can hold aggro.

    So yea, Prot Warrs do need some PvE love but Blizz will probably be careful because they are already being used in PvP (I guess Swifty did have a hand in that).
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  11. #531
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    Fun to be 1shotting people without boa's in 10-15 bracket with avenger shield. Also hoj+avengershield combo op at that lvl pvp!
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  12. #532
    What I remember reading on this issue was that Prot Pallies are getting a bit of a nerf but the main issue is more that a lot of fights in ToT play to their strengths so Blizzard will be more wary of that in future :P

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 06:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ebah View Post
    Fun to be 1shotting people without boa's in 10-15 bracket with avenger shield. Also hoj+avengershield combo op at that lvl pvp!
    Been like that since Cata launch at least.

    Low PVP is broke and ain't never gettin' fixed.
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  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Akylios View Post
    Do warriors need a huge DPS/TPS boost, or has every warrior I've ever tanked with just been doing something wrong? They all seemed to know what they were doing, and were definitely good players, but every time I've tanked with a warrior (as a druid) I've had to hold back quite significantly while offtanking, or risk stealing aggro back. This can be a bit frustrating, as I'm not able to play my own class to its full potential while tanking alongside a warrior.
    Every bear tank should know to switch to cat while not tanking.

  14. #534
    I am Murloc! nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    Every bear tank should know to switch to cat while not tanking.
    That was true back when the two specs were the same so you literally were a cat spec as well as a bear spec.

    At this point as far as I know outside of Heart of the Wild, you're better off just staying in Bear Form the whole time.

  15. #535
    Mechagnome Lezarin's Avatar
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    Read up al 27 pages so far(ye work was boring).

    In a way i,m happy i,ve gone for the survivability build as i,ve been tnaking since tbc playing since vanilla and one thing i know is fotm builds get nerfed bad when the lemmings start to QQ but i like my build i feel a tank needs to survive more than actually dps if i can take a hit keep my healers entertained with my thrilling heroics and hold aggro thats all that matters to me .
    We run with 2 paladins the other tnaks got the haste build but our healers hate him on boss,s he cant take a hit at all .I do honestly like how blizzard have overall not jumped on the band wagon so far and decided to knee jerk nerf a class not just paladin tonks but all classes .they also admit when they get it wrong etc .

    The upcoming nerf is nothing major to me i lose 5 percent mastery roughly i,ll make that back up .and blizz have acknowledged they sort of played to paladin tanks strenghts with TOT but they learned from it .

    In reference too people saying tanks have to stop hitting the boss on a tank switch thats not bad playing as far as i,m concerned thats actually team work .tanks are a small part of a raid team but if they dont work well together then the raid suffers learning each others strenghts and weakness,s is how you work better at it .

    Take my offtank while i tank horridon he has a field day on the adds loves it enjoys every raid etc our healers can leave me for a bit and worry about the raid as i can take a few hits etc it makes the raid work better from the front line too the support .

    In saying that i,ve tanked with warriors and deathknights and druids so far this expansion and i found that their egos went nuts seems all tanks are concerned about their dps (think i,m just stuck in the past )when a tank is expected to out dps a raid rather than survive and hold aggro thats the day the role becomes of no interest to me and will then probably pack it in.
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  16. #536
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lezarin View Post
    Read up al 27 pages so far(ye work was boring).

    In a way i,m happy i,ve gone for the survivability build as i,ve been tnaking since tbc playing since vanilla and one thing i know is fotm builds get nerfed bad when the lemmings start to QQ but i like my build i feel a tank needs to survive more than actually dps if i can take a hit keep my healers entertained with my thrilling heroics and hold aggro thats all that matters to me .
    We run with 2 paladins the other tnaks got the haste build but our healers hate him on boss,s he cant take a hit at all .I do honestly like how blizzard have overall not jumped on the band wagon so far and decided to knee jerk nerf a class not just paladin tonks but all classes .they also admit when they get it wrong etc .

    The upcoming nerf is nothing major to me i lose 5 percent mastery roughly i,ll make that back up .and blizz have acknowledged they sort of played to paladin tanks strenghts with TOT but they learned from it .

    In reference too people saying tanks have to stop hitting the boss on a tank switch thats not bad playing as far as i,m concerned thats actually team work .tanks are a small part of a raid team but if they dont work well together then the raid suffers learning each others strenghts and weakness,s is how you work better at it .

    Take my offtank while i tank horridon he has a field day on the adds loves it enjoys every raid etc our healers can leave me for a bit and worry about the raid as i can take a few hits etc it makes the raid work better from the front line too the support .

    In saying that i,ve tanked with warriors and deathknights and druids so far this expansion and i found that their egos went nuts seems all tanks are concerned about their dps (think i,m just stuck in the past )when a tank is expected to out dps a raid rather than survive and hold aggro thats the day the role becomes of no interest to me and will then probably pack it in.
    The problem about "holding back" as the off tank, is that on progression fights with a tight dps check, you need every single bit you can squeeze out - that includes tank dps.

  17. #537
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    The problem about "holding back" as the off tank, is that on progression fights with a tight dps check, you need every single bit you can squeeze out - that includes tank dps.
    It's just a matter of communication and knowing the other tank. Unless something is terribly wrong all you have to do is tone down your DPS for a few seconds. For instance, when I drop tanking, unless the enrage is REAAAAAAAALY tight what I do help with raid healing for a few second, by then I can safely start bashing the boss again with no fear of over-aggro.

    EDIT:

    My main offtank is a Monk and his DPS is so high I never really have to stop DPS to avoid overaggro. His DPS is just insane, he finished first on HC Horridon with like 290k DPS or something. When it's our Druid or DK tanking then yea, I definitely have to tone DPS for a bit after a tank swap.
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  18. #538
    Mechagnome Lezarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    The problem about "holding back" as the off tank, is that on progression fights with a tight dps check, you need every single bit you can squeeze out - that includes tank dps.
    And that i can understand but we dont do heroic content at the moment...yet.but by that stage the 2 tanks will have worked together and adapted to it that the lose of dps would be negligable .So while i can understand what your saying it can be overcome with effective team work between the tanks .
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  19. #539
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    It's just a matter of communication and knowing the other tank. Unless something is terribly wrong all you have to do is tone down your DPS for a few seconds. For instance, when I drop tanking, unless the enrage is REAAAAAAAALY tight what I do help with raid healing for a few second, by then I can safely start bashing the boss again with no fear of over-aggro.

    EDIT:

    My main offtank is a Monk and his DPS is so high I never really have to stop DPS to avoid overaggro. His DPS is just insane, he finished first on HC Horridon with like 290k DPS or something. When it's our Druid or DK tanking then yea, I definitely have to tone DPS for a bit after a tank swap.

    Yeah, try tanking with a Warrior as a Guardian atm...... Sometimes I can't even auto attack. We're 7/13 Heroic, so it's not just the case of a nub Warrior. But Guardian dps/tps is just really strong.

  20. #540
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    Yeah, try tanking with a Warrior as a Guardian atm...... Sometimes I can't even auto attack. We're 7/13 Heroic, so it's not just the case of a nub Warrior. But Guardian dps/tps is just really strong.
    I guess them having to use their resource (rage) for pure defense doesn't help their threat generation much (Shield Block / Barrier) while, for instance, Paladins still do damage with their own AM (ShotR) so, yeah, that's another thing that keeps their DPS down since they have to tunnel most of their rage into defense while other tanks can still be on the offensive while keeping their mitigation up.
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