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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Akylios View Post
    Do warriors need a huge DPS/TPS boost, or has every warrior I've ever tanked with just been doing something wrong? They all seemed to know what they were doing, and were definitely good players, but every time I've tanked with a warrior (as a druid) I've had to hold back quite significantly while offtanking, or risk stealing aggro back. This can be a bit frustrating, as I'm not able to play my own class to its full potential while tanking alongside a warrior.
    Every bear tank should know to switch to cat while not tanking.

  2. #542
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    Every bear tank should know to switch to cat while not tanking.
    That was true back when the two specs were the same so you literally were a cat spec as well as a bear spec.

    At this point as far as I know outside of Heart of the Wild, you're better off just staying in Bear Form the whole time.

  3. #543
    Mechagnome Lezarin's Avatar
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    Read up al 27 pages so far(ye work was boring).

    In a way i,m happy i,ve gone for the survivability build as i,ve been tnaking since tbc playing since vanilla and one thing i know is fotm builds get nerfed bad when the lemmings start to QQ but i like my build i feel a tank needs to survive more than actually dps if i can take a hit keep my healers entertained with my thrilling heroics and hold aggro thats all that matters to me .
    We run with 2 paladins the other tnaks got the haste build but our healers hate him on boss,s he cant take a hit at all .I do honestly like how blizzard have overall not jumped on the band wagon so far and decided to knee jerk nerf a class not just paladin tonks but all classes .they also admit when they get it wrong etc .

    The upcoming nerf is nothing major to me i lose 5 percent mastery roughly i,ll make that back up .and blizz have acknowledged they sort of played to paladin tanks strenghts with TOT but they learned from it .

    In reference too people saying tanks have to stop hitting the boss on a tank switch thats not bad playing as far as i,m concerned thats actually team work .tanks are a small part of a raid team but if they dont work well together then the raid suffers learning each others strenghts and weakness,s is how you work better at it .

    Take my offtank while i tank horridon he has a field day on the adds loves it enjoys every raid etc our healers can leave me for a bit and worry about the raid as i can take a few hits etc it makes the raid work better from the front line too the support .

    In saying that i,ve tanked with warriors and deathknights and druids so far this expansion and i found that their egos went nuts seems all tanks are concerned about their dps (think i,m just stuck in the past )when a tank is expected to out dps a raid rather than survive and hold aggro thats the day the role becomes of no interest to me and will then probably pack it in.
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  4. #544
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lezarin View Post
    Read up al 27 pages so far(ye work was boring).

    In a way i,m happy i,ve gone for the survivability build as i,ve been tnaking since tbc playing since vanilla and one thing i know is fotm builds get nerfed bad when the lemmings start to QQ but i like my build i feel a tank needs to survive more than actually dps if i can take a hit keep my healers entertained with my thrilling heroics and hold aggro thats all that matters to me .
    We run with 2 paladins the other tnaks got the haste build but our healers hate him on boss,s he cant take a hit at all .I do honestly like how blizzard have overall not jumped on the band wagon so far and decided to knee jerk nerf a class not just paladin tonks but all classes .they also admit when they get it wrong etc .

    The upcoming nerf is nothing major to me i lose 5 percent mastery roughly i,ll make that back up .and blizz have acknowledged they sort of played to paladin tanks strenghts with TOT but they learned from it .

    In reference too people saying tanks have to stop hitting the boss on a tank switch thats not bad playing as far as i,m concerned thats actually team work .tanks are a small part of a raid team but if they dont work well together then the raid suffers learning each others strenghts and weakness,s is how you work better at it .

    Take my offtank while i tank horridon he has a field day on the adds loves it enjoys every raid etc our healers can leave me for a bit and worry about the raid as i can take a few hits etc it makes the raid work better from the front line too the support .

    In saying that i,ve tanked with warriors and deathknights and druids so far this expansion and i found that their egos went nuts seems all tanks are concerned about their dps (think i,m just stuck in the past )when a tank is expected to out dps a raid rather than survive and hold aggro thats the day the role becomes of no interest to me and will then probably pack it in.
    The problem about "holding back" as the off tank, is that on progression fights with a tight dps check, you need every single bit you can squeeze out - that includes tank dps.

  5. #545
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    The problem about "holding back" as the off tank, is that on progression fights with a tight dps check, you need every single bit you can squeeze out - that includes tank dps.
    It's just a matter of communication and knowing the other tank. Unless something is terribly wrong all you have to do is tone down your DPS for a few seconds. For instance, when I drop tanking, unless the enrage is REAAAAAAAALY tight what I do help with raid healing for a few second, by then I can safely start bashing the boss again with no fear of over-aggro.

    EDIT:

    My main offtank is a Monk and his DPS is so high I never really have to stop DPS to avoid overaggro. His DPS is just insane, he finished first on HC Horridon with like 290k DPS or something. When it's our Druid or DK tanking then yea, I definitely have to tone DPS for a bit after a tank swap.


  6. #546
    Mechagnome Lezarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    The problem about "holding back" as the off tank, is that on progression fights with a tight dps check, you need every single bit you can squeeze out - that includes tank dps.
    And that i can understand but we dont do heroic content at the moment...yet.but by that stage the 2 tanks will have worked together and adapted to it that the lose of dps would be negligable .So while i can understand what your saying it can be overcome with effective team work between the tanks .
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  7. #547
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    It's just a matter of communication and knowing the other tank. Unless something is terribly wrong all you have to do is tone down your DPS for a few seconds. For instance, when I drop tanking, unless the enrage is REAAAAAAAALY tight what I do help with raid healing for a few second, by then I can safely start bashing the boss again with no fear of over-aggro.

    EDIT:

    My main offtank is a Monk and his DPS is so high I never really have to stop DPS to avoid overaggro. His DPS is just insane, he finished first on HC Horridon with like 290k DPS or something. When it's our Druid or DK tanking then yea, I definitely have to tone DPS for a bit after a tank swap.

    Yeah, try tanking with a Warrior as a Guardian atm...... Sometimes I can't even auto attack. We're 7/13 Heroic, so it's not just the case of a nub Warrior. But Guardian dps/tps is just really strong.

  8. #548
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    Yeah, try tanking with a Warrior as a Guardian atm...... Sometimes I can't even auto attack. We're 7/13 Heroic, so it's not just the case of a nub Warrior. But Guardian dps/tps is just really strong.
    I guess them having to use their resource (rage) for pure defense doesn't help their threat generation much (Shield Block / Barrier) while, for instance, Paladins still do damage with their own AM (ShotR) so, yeah, that's another thing that keeps their DPS down since they have to tunnel most of their rage into defense while other tanks can still be on the offensive while keeping their mitigation up.


  9. #549
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    I guess them having to use their resource (rage) for pure defense doesn't help their threat generation much (Shield Block / Barrier) while, for instance, Paladins still do damage with their own AM (ShotR) so, yeah, that's another thing that keeps their DPS down since they have to tunnel most of their rage into defense while other tanks can still be on the offensive while keeping their mitigation up.

    Idd which leads us back to this whole "nerf Prot Paladins". Imo they do scale a bit too well with Haste but had it not been for underpowered Prot Warriors and DK's in terms of dps, silly design for Guardians (forcing us out of form to use several utility abilities) and a Tier of bosses that heavily favor Paladins in general, I doubt people would have been complaining about them tbh. Cause Monk tanks are doing the same if not more dps than Paladins, Guardians can match a Paladin in dps as well. And people just forget, how Paladins mitigation works - they do a lot of self healing.... Just like DK's who too can do a lot of self healing. Imagine that DK's would scale with Haste just as Paladins.....

    But oh well, kinda pointless to argue with people who barely knows anything about tanking and just glares at Recount and see numbers.

    Tl;dr: Bad game design makes Paladins of all specs OP, only real nerf PROT Paladins need, is how well Haste scales for them.

  10. #550
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    But Haste tanking is so much fun


  11. #551
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    But Haste tanking is so much fun
    And it's not about removing Haste tanking from Paladins, it's about how well it scales. I'm all for the active mitigation tanking style and secondary stats being valuable but it needs to apply for all tanking classes in order to be balanced. Imo Brewmaster dps is over the hill as well, when comparing to Paladin and Guardian. But you just can't compare Paladin, BrM and Guardian to DK and Warrior tanks as it stands right now.

  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akylios View Post
    Since this seems to have turned into a general tanking discussion thread.

    Do warriors need a huge DPS/TPS boost, or has every warrior I've ever tanked with just been doing something wrong? They all seemed to know what they were doing, and were definitely good players, but every time I've tanked with a warrior (as a druid) I've had to hold back quite significantly while offtanking, or risk stealing aggro back. This can be a bit frustrating, as I'm not able to play my own class to its full potential while tanking alongside a warrior.

    I've never had this same problem when tanking alongside monks or paladins.
    Complete opposite for me, my offtank(drood) cant keep aggro on me for shit...its annoying...
    And he's not a bad bear at all, even after the growl hotfix its quite frustrating

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Complete opposite for me, my offtank(drood) cant keep aggro on me for shit...its annoying...
    And he's not a bad bear at all, even after the growl hotfix its quite frustrating
    He might be doing something wrong with his rotation, or maybe he's stacking mastery instead of crit?

    If not, then I need to see your WOL so I can see what you're doing that my warrior co-tanks have not been doing.

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Complete opposite for me, my offtank(drood) cant keep aggro on me for shit...its annoying...
    And he's not a bad bear at all, even after the growl hotfix its quite frustrating
    Which is funny because my druid can keep threat from me as a paladin.

    Hate to break it to you, but your druid is not playing correctly or his item level is 450.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Which is funny because my druid can keep threat from me as a paladin.

    Hate to break it to you, but your druid is not playing correctly or his item level is 450.
    Tbh, i've never questioned his skill, he does everything else correct. his dps has been lacking abit but i'm a vengeance hog, contributed it to that.
    i've never played drood of any spec so cant say much besides that he's stacking crit at least.
    Last edited by santa666; 2013-05-17 at 03:17 PM.

  16. #556
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Tbh, i've never questioned his skill, he does everything else correct. his dps has been lacking abit but i'm a vengeance hog, contributed it to that.
    i've never played drood of any spec so cant say much besides that he's stacking crit at least.
    Turn off RF when he's tanking. I found that the best solution since I tend to rip agro from my druid co-tank during early stages of the fight.
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  17. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    Turn off RF when he's tanking. I found that the best solution since I tend to rip agro from my druid co-tank during early stages of the fight.
    I main a warrior, going battle stance just sucks, since i cant generate rage

  18. #558
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    I main a warrior, going battle stance just sucks, since i cant generate rage
    Wait, so your Guardian co. tank can't hold threat from a Warrior tank? Sorry, but he's doing something very wrong or you outgear him by miles. No way in hell a Guardian should struggle to hold threat from a Warrior lol.

  19. #559
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    You guys are ruining my friday lol ;(
    He's the best cotank i've had in a long time, he outgear me by 2 ilvls, tho i tend to use dps meta where he mostly uses tank.

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    You guys are ruining my friday lol ;(
    He's the best cotank i've had in a long time, he outgear me by 2 ilvls, tho i tend to use dps meta where he mostly uses tank.
    Ouch. He missed out on the "bugged" meta proc for Guardian Fixed now, but still miles better than tanking for 10man.

    And you can be good at positioning but suck at damage/threat. Is he using DPS cooldowns appropriately? His damage should be miles ahead of yours.
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