Should useless subjects be removed from the school system?

[Laize]

France has the king of all useless subjects : philosophy
In your last year of high school (I heard they even introduce it sooner now) you have to survive at least 4 hours a week of this stupid timesink, and at the end the exam is 100% random, based on nothing else than the corrector's mood.

Good lord... and I thought art was useless as a compulsory course...

I think History is not too far but only because of the way it is teached, I mean understanding why there were wars/events is good for people's mind, but majority of exams are based on dates/people name only.

I agree... I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history. I imagine if the education of it were more engaging students would be more likely to see parallels between the past and present. Try explaining to adults the parallels between "The War on Terror" and the "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" and suddenly everyone is all "IT'S NOTHING LIKE THAT!" Then try explaining "Well the Final Solution didn't start off by rounding up the Jews into cattle cars" and people start calling you all sorts of thought-terminating-cliches.

And I think it's the same in every country, but having advanced lessons on your native language/poem talk/paint analysis etc when you are 18 years old and want to enter scientific schools... you have better to do with your brain at this moment.

Again, agreed... though in my case that "better thing to do" was load it up with psychotropic drugs. Now that I think about it, though... considering how well I did in school I wonder if I might not be a Harvard alumnus had I... you know... not done that...

[StayTuned]

We have compulsory philosophy and psychology in Finland too.

Psychology is a totally different thing. I had a few lessons in Introduction to Psychology, and what I learned was very interesting.


Cognitive behavior therapy just to name one thing.


Jump to 2:13

[Laize]

We have compulsory philosophy and psychology in Finland too.

Holy shit man... I took 8 weeks of Psychology in high school and wanted to kill myself on day 2. But don't you guys get to take, for the most part, courses you like?

[StayTuned]

Holy shit man... I took 8 weeks of Psychology in high school and wanted to kill myself on day 2. But don't you guys get to take, for the most part, courses you like?

Whaaaaaaaaaat? It was BY FAR the most interesting subject I had during my study abroad. Maybe university level psy is more interesting, I guess?

[Neliah]

I hated Statistics and Modelling with a passion, and yet I love it now. Same with Calculus. If I hadn't been "encouraged" by my parents to do them, I would be worse off for it. It really wasn't about learning to love the subjects either, it was reaching that "a-ha!" moment where it all started to fit together like an intricate puzzle.

And I can't stress this enough - the baseline for minimum scientific and mathematic knowledge rises every year. To make it optional to a bunch of teenagers and children who don't know any better is tantamount to throwing away the last few decades of progress mankind has made.

In that case you're probably one of the few I've crossed paths with that has ever said that. IRL most of my old classmates never used over half the classes they had after they graduated. None of them had any "aha" moments despite them sitting with their noses in books trying to learn what they were literally forced to do, and having their own interests ignored because they couldn't pick anything else.

Some people know from early on what they want to do, and usually the things you learn in school aren't really contributing a lot to your future dream. I always wanted to work with plants (gardening, not stupidely huge ones to calculate total sizes bla bla), but I don't really see how my advanced math comes into this picture? The only thing I still ever use is plus and minus. And hell, all phones even has calculators on them today so why even bother stuffing your head with 2x^5 - 19x^4 + 58x^3 - 67x^2 + 56x - 48... I really don't see where that fits into my dream job, so those 2 years I would have loved to spend on extra biology classes to learn more about plants - I never got that option.

[Arlon]

High-school level of education should have the option to consist of only obligatory or compulsory subjects(That you get based on a certain career path) that will prepare you for the professional path you might take in university/trade school etc. The whole college system should be reworked and provide people with the means to skip the useless crap and just focus on your masters/profession etc. The fat needs some trimming.

[StayTuned]

I hated Statistics and Modelling with a passion, and yet I love it now. Same with Calculus. If I hadn't been "encouraged" by my parents to do them, I would be worse off for it. It really wasn't about learning to love the subjects either, it was reaching that "a-ha!" moment where it all started to fit together like an intricate puzzle.

And I can't stress this enough - the baseline for minimum scientific and mathematic knowledge rises every year. To make it optional to a bunch of teenagers and children who don't know any better is tantamount to throwing away the last few decades of progress mankind has made.

While I would generally agree with what you said, I still think that the math I used during my high school final in Germany is utterly useless for everyone but those who wish to continue their studies in those fields, i.e. math or any other scientific field. What about those like me, who wish to go into economics and human research?

The level of math and statistics I use now have zero to do with what I learned in the last 3 years of high school.

[Snuffleupagus]

In that case you're probably one of the few I've crossed paths with that has ever said that. IRL most of my old classmates never used over half the classes they had after they graduated. None of them had any "aha" moments despite them sitting with their noses in books trying to learn what they were literally forced to do, and having their own interests ignored because they couldn't pick anything else.

Some people know from early on what they want to do, and usually the things you learn in school aren't really contributing a lot to your future dream. I always wanted to work with plants (gardening, not stupidely huge ones to calculate total sizes bla bla), but I don't really see how my advanced math comes into this picture? The only thing I still ever use is plus and minus. And hell, all phones even has calculators on them today so why even bother stuffing your head with 2x^5 - 19x^4 + 58x^3 - 67x^2 + 56x - 48... I really don't see where that fits into my dream job, so those 2 years I would have loved to spend on extra biology classes to learn more about plants - I never got that option.

If you want to be the best of the best in the gardening field, you're going to need creativity, maths, and chemistry. Especially Chemistry.

Unless you want to be a standard issue gardener who trims hedges and mows lawns once a week.

It's about learning how to apply the knowledge. If you can't do that, it represents a failing in the education system, not the subject.

[Deleted]

Sure philosophy is useless. If you're a fish.
Chances are you're a human being, so studying the path of thought that brought us to where we are now will help you become a more conscious person. Of course, you can always eat the first apple that falls in front of you and survive. Your choice.

Also, big el-o-el to that guy saying "kids skip school because they're not interested in some subject and cba"... Well... Building site is that way for them.
Life is hard and never goes the way you want. A good analogy with life is school. Some stuff you dont like but there is nothing you can do. Shut the hell up and do it. Period. Not happy?
Building sites that way mate.

[Deleted]

By "useless" I mean subjects you have not once used since you have gotten out of school (advanced forms of math, chemistry, etc...)

Just wondering what you guys/gals think of this idea.

EDIT: Also, if yes, do you think those subjects should be replaced with things that could help you more in the real world like mandatory cooking class, or learning how to write a resume... even how to find a job!

I'm not sure that any subject is useless. Understanding a broad mathematical framework ups the general knowledge base of the populance, even if individuals may not use it on a day to day basis.

I do think more practical things should be taught, but then again,what is the job of a school and what is the job of a parent?

I think more lessons on society, laws, politics, debate and such would not be a bad idea, people are shockingly ignorant of how society actually works.

[Snuffleupagus]

Probably worth mentioning that if you're currently in high school, you don't get a say.

[StayTuned]

Sure philosophy is useless. If you're a fish.
Chances are you're a human being, so studying the path of thought that brought us to where we are now will help you become a more conscious person. Of course, you can always eat the first apple that falls in front of you and survive. Your choice.

Also, big el-o-el to that guy saying "kids skip school because they're not interested in some subject and cba"... Well... Building site is that way for them.
Life is hard and never goes the way you want. A good analogy with life is school. Some stuff you do like but there is nothing you can do. Shut the hell up and do them. Period. Not happy?
Building sites that way mate.

Or, you know, you could question the methods we use today, and improve them?

Life is about progress, not about sucking everything up and doing nothing about it.

[Laize]

Whaaaaaaaaaat? It was BY FAR the most interesting subject I had during my study abroad. Maybe university level psy is more interesting, I guess?

It's also entirely possible the teacher was shit. She did get fired after one semester.

I've always been a "hard" science kind of guy though. Physics really filled me with energy in the morning and in chemistry I was really in my element.

Eh? EH?! Cmon... cmooooooon!

[Senathor]

You had to have a shitty history class then.

---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 07:19 AM ----------



Not sure if serious?

Shitty indeed, I can see it being fun if it had something, just something to do with economy, but yeh.

[Snuffleupagus]

Or, you know, you could question the methods we use today, and improve them?

Life is about progress, not about sucking everything up and doing nothing about it.

And you need to know where the methods of today came from to understand the underpinnings.

Teachers being shit at their jobs doesn't indicate the subject is useless, it indicates the teacher is shit at their job.

[StayTuned]

It's also entirely possible the teacher was shit. She did get fired after one semester.

Teachers are a very important part, if not THE MOST important part about how well someone accepts a subject. If the teacher is able to make it fun and interesting, you immediately gain more interest in the subject itself.

[Deleted]

Rather than removing advanced subjects from school we should simply remove stupid people. I completely agree with the OP that the morons are never going to need to know advanced mathematics, we should simply send them off to a glorified crèche where they learn how to cook and whatnot. Then the intelligent ones amongst us can continue our education without mouth-breathers clogging up the system. It's win-win.

[Deleted]

History as a whole should be removed.

"Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes" George Santayana.

I disagree for this reason, as humanity have made a lot of mistakes in the past.

[Senathor]

You had some pretty shitty teachers then.

Are you the kind of guy who complains about how stupid our politicians are, while simultaneously advocating that we should institute changes that make people vote for stupid politicians? Or are you that one person who thinks that our politicians are exactly what we need?

Math aside (its utility is obvious), history is politic's laboratory. If you don't know history, you have no idea how the choices you make, on a societal scale, aka. the policies you support, will turn out. The reason we, as a society, keeps making these massive, retarded mistakes that anyone with half a grasp of world history sees coming from miles away, is because the electorate is wildly uninformed of the consequences of their choices, so we suffer the same crap over and over again. The same type of stuff, anyway. How does the saying go? "History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes"?

Although I do agree that history is often taught in a mindless fashion that focuses on memorizing trivial details rather than understanding the flow of events. I know a lot of people will say that the details are important, and I guess they are, but that is the sort of stuff that you can use wikipedia for if you know what to look for. But if you don't know what to look for, or to look at all, that's a bigger problem than if you're missing some specific details, if you ask me.

I don't know too much about politicians so I don't really judge too much. Maybe if we could learn something about politcs in school, but noooo, screw politics and add spanish, gg sweden high school education...

[StayTuned]

Rather than removing advanced subjects from school we should simply remove stupid people. I completely agree with the OP that the morons are never going to need to know advanced mathematics, we should simply send them off to a glorified crèche where they learn how to cook and whatnot. Then the intelligent ones amongst us can continue our education without mouth-breathers clogging up the system. It's win-win.

Yeah, please be more disrespectful to those who are not interested in science, and prefer labor work instead. I'll remind them of your words the next time you seek the service of a blue collar worker.

Instead of casting off and stigmatizing those who do weak in school, we should do something about it and give everyone the best education they need to succeed in their field of interest.