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  1. #201
    WotLK ... casual raids everywhere. Ppl building their reputation as pug raid leaders making weekly raids at certain time. Cata ... ppl getting destroyed in 5 mans. Healers suddenly going from spam spam spam to being mana starved 24/7. Raids are even worse ... no entry level raids. All the casual pugs from WotLK ... forget about them. Nobody can pug that shit.


    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  2. #202
    Stood in the Fire RyokuchaMidori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Cataclysm had SO. MUCH. POTENTIAL. It could've been thé best WoW expansion without a doubt, but somehow due to a trillion of things it just crashed and burned hard.

    It introduced a lot of great things, it brought Azeroth up to speed with the current events and there was a lot of great lore... However, it was just... A waste honestly.
    The main idea behind the revamp of 1-60 was to close and wrap up a lot of questions and quest lines, instead it did the opposite.

    Sigh.
    Regarding the revamp of the 1/60 zone, I think blizzards kinda kicked themselves in the butt.
    Because the leveling was so fast and made easier (tons of xp in dungeons through the quest you no longer have to find, they added npc at the start of the instances for those quest), it was actually quite hard not to out level any zone you were questing in. Also LFG cut out a lot of travel time that would have been used for (re)discovering the new zones. And of course heirlooms.
    A revamp like that combined with a slower leveling process (TBC or even Wrath, at least pre-heirloom) would have been magnificiant. Instead It would seem they put a lot of effort into something that dit not get the chance to have the exposure it deserved.
    "Skill, as the world of warcraft goes, is only in question between equals in pvp power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

    Thucydides : " The Melian dialogue".

  3. #203
    I still think the re-vamp to lvling, should have been like 1-30 inn vanilla, 30-60 inn TBC...or something like that. Lvling would make abit more sence then.

    I personally stormed trough all the questes pre-cata launch for achivements. The zone's were pretty good, but it was clear it took away focus from end-game, witch lacked heavly once Cataclysme was like 3-4 months old.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  4. #204
    Stood in the Fire RyokuchaMidori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    WotLK ... casual raids everywhere. Ppl building their reputation as pug raid leaders making weekly raids at certain time. Cata ... ppl getting destroyed in 5 mans. Healers suddenly going from spam spam spam to being mana starved 24/7. Raids are even worse ... no entry level raids. All the casual pugs from WotLK ... forget about them. Nobody can pug that shit.

    Things are not what they seem ! It is not cata 5 mans that destroyed players, it was Woltk 5 mans that did it. In Wrath people learner to play easy mode :

    - extra powerfull healer, can heal through 99% of any kinda aoe/damage bad players standing in bad stuff. Big heals toping players easily, mana issue ? lol what, who's mana an old friend of yours ?
    - no more threat issue, no longer have to care about, focus fire, knowing what target is the tank target, using CC or even interrupt. Wrath of the lousy Aoe King
    - overly easy raids like naxx and sartha no adds.
    Guess what the pug that raided Sartha and Totc normal mode every weeks kinda failed at Ulduar (even in normal mode, even if outgearing the raid with t9).

    And then Cata came. If cata would have been the expac right after TBC or vanilla, cata would have been a lot nicer even for noobs and newbies.
    Last edited by RyokuchaMidori; 2013-05-01 at 08:29 AM.
    "Skill, as the world of warcraft goes, is only in question between equals in pvp power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

    Thucydides : " The Melian dialogue".

  5. #205
    The raids sucked, healing was freaking boring (the only mana matters healing model I enjoyed was downranking/five second rule), most of the non raid content at 85 was lame, the story was a mess (Horde steamrolls the Alliance, no Alliance NPCs seem to care, does anyone even mention Southshore?) and then there's Deathwing's weak story presence besides redoing the scenery, and on the topic of Deathwing, the fight against him was a complete anticlimactic letdown for what should have been an awesome, epic final boss.

  6. #206
    Because personally I hate what they've done with the healers. It was a bad and corrupted design. Even more, I remember playing in BC, when every mana class (except warlock, which was unique due to mana independency) had to work around their mana management. Then suddelny BAM - and only healers for absolute no reason made forced manastarving, gear dependent pieces of junk, while every other DD classes which used mana were out of mana management again for no reason at all. Also all that coming with that parody for speaking with community, where mr. street started to put some thesises directly into people's minds. For example, thesis about healing been uninteresting and boring pre-cata. I've asked around 90% of the raiding/pvping healers on my server, and NOONE said they were unpleased with healers mechanics before cata. Noone said they were pleased with cata healer mechanics as well. So, that were fat lies in GC style, masking the biggest healer nerfs ever, making them from interesting, streamlined and reactive role to play into awful go-oom-after-5-aoe-heals proactive pure boringnesses.
    Last edited by l33t; 2013-05-01 at 08:43 AM.

  7. #207
    T11 has to be one of best content blizz gave us imo and hard heroic were very enjoyable for me at least didnt mind those long hour heroic (with guildies it took alot less)

    along came t12 7 bosses were ok but couldve done alot better if they didnt scrap w.e raid they were planning zzzzzz

    and DS was ok but i think it got to the point where the nerfs made the whole raid a joke and 8months of content making it even worse

    cata overall wasnt that bad but probably worst if you like to compare with past/future(??) expansions, it had potentials and it just became downhill after 4.2 scrapped content

    oh people are talking about healing pov??? i loved the healing changes they've done in cata and excellent move by making int not increasing mana pool (having fixed mana pool ftw mop) t13 and end of t12 felt like mana was non issue so it was alot boring compare to t11 (healing nef anyone?? XD )
    Last edited by Soulstrike; 2013-05-01 at 08:50 AM.

  8. #208
    Why are people bashing cata??? because its shit, end of the raids sucked the tier armor sets were piss poor designed.Only one thing made me happy in cata was when i got the blue version of the aq mount from archaeology.
    Mists of pandaria is just as crap, WoW and warcraft is about the horde vs alliance, orc vs human vs undead vs nightelf in the lands of azeroth, not china and silly talking fluffy pandas just dont do it for me it somehow makes the game more aimed towards kids,overall the chinese themed mists of pandaria expansion imo is even worse than cata.

  9. #209
    Healing has the last couple of expansions had the general problem that you start of with all going oom all the time then 3-6months later the healers got equip or a new raid was released making the healers not go oom all the time but still having to watch out.
    and then ½ a year later the new raid comes out that you play for 1 year and in that year all healers have super mana pools or super mana regen never go oom and can
    focus solely on healing and not so much on being mana conservative.

    then a new expansion comes out and the cycle repeats.

    so depending on where in the cycle you are.
    You can either say that the healers are all powerfull never go ooms
    or that healing is hard because mana management is a bitch.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastwish View Post
    Why are people bashing cata??? because its shit, end of the raids sucked the tier armor sets were piss poor designed.Only one thing made me happy in cata was when i got the blue version of the aq mount from archaeology.
    Mists of pandaria is just as crap, WoW and warcraft is about the horde vs alliance, orc vs human vs undead vs nightelf in the lands of azeroth, not china and silly talking fluffy pandas just dont do it for me it somehow makes the game more aimed towards kids,overall the chinese themed mists of pandaria expansion imo is even worse than cata.
    Agreed Cataclysm wasn't great, mainly because Blizzard didn't focus enough on the end-game content. As for the raids - only Dragon Soul sucked and thats what people remmember the most of the expansion. Because it really really sucked . Tier 11 and Tier 12 were pretty decent, I liked them. Also I really don't know why you think the armor was poorly designed.
    As for Mists of Pandaria, it's amazing PvE wise with a few exceptions from Tier 14 but overall I love it, especially Throne of Thunder. That statement that MoP is aimed at kids because of pandas is beyond retarded :|.
    Last edited by Tofifi; 2013-05-01 at 09:57 AM.

  11. #211
    Because it marked the most degenerative and awful developments to the game that had ever been implemented. It dumbed down mechanics, simplified content to the extent convenience takes the place of fun, (because apparently getting everything regardless of effort/skill is fun to new people). It also marked the first of many awful chapters in warcraft lore.

  12. #212
    1) All the raids in cata were terrible except tier 11 raids
    2) The storyline in tbc and wrath were just fantastic imo. Most of cata's storyline lacked that catchy, hold your attention, keeping you on the edge of seat kind of story that kept you interested with the content.
    3) Blizz took out a lot of great things in cata too. For example, Battle of Undercity, many fun abilities like Corpse Explosion, etc.
    4) Blizz completely changed a lot of classes causing them to relearn and adapt which I thought wasn't necessary. For example hunters using focus, death knight's new rune system.
    5) cata PvP was the worst in WoW's history imo. Remember when Frost mages and Sub Rogues would stomp over any class even the "OP" classes in wrath like rets and DKs without even trying? It would be alright if they were over powered for a patch or 2 but they went untouched the entire expansion. As much as I dislike how MoP PvP is (pop all cds then cc till the enemy is dead), almost every class/spec can compete with their cds/trinket up. It seemed like there were a lot of dead specs (ele, destro, etc.) and a lot of OP specs (sub, frost, etc.) in cataclysm that you don't see as often in MoP.

    I also feel like many little things like the lack a good pre-expansion event like Pre-wrath event or many fun and unique quests like battle for undercity were removed and made the game stale and uninteresting. I think they thought no one appreciated those extras and thought to just stick with the raiding, dung, and pvp part of the game. This goes for the class quests that were removed as well.

    I think they messed up big time and took a step in the wrong direction from what the players actually wanted. Imo they've done a great job picking up the pieces from cata and basically rebuilding with MoP. My only complaint like many others is I don't like the "panda" theme. Hopefully next expansion will be epic kind of like tbc or wrath.

  13. #213
    I liked Cata a lot. So screw you all :3

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightelfsb View Post
    It was Blizzards first step towards the deciline off wow, as there main focus. 4.1 showed that - rehershed 5 mans, instead off Firelands as we exspected. So we had to deal with 5 man's, and when 4.2 shipped it wasen't really that good. Firelands was a great raid, mainly bagged by Ragnaros trough.

    But 4.3 ruined wow for many. For the first time you see even old timers calling it quits. Dragon Soul is the worst raid ever made. It screamed lazyness so badly it can't be forgiven. Blizzard from now clearly shows there main focus aint on wow content anymore. What it is now, I have no idea about - Maybe SC2? Can't think off other games (titan dosen't exsist hurr hurr) that takes away there focus.
    It's funny how you bash WoW in all of your posts, yet still care to comment, and probably still play it

    But I think cata was great, DS was okay, but once you killed it on your main, you just rolled an alt and so on and so on
    And to be fair, I liked it that way personally, but I can understand why many people were turned off by this

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by RyokuchaMidori View Post
    Things are not what they seem ! It is not cata 5 mans that destroyed players, it was Woltk 5 mans that did it. In Wrath people learner to play easy mode :

    - extra powerfull healer, can heal through 99% of any kinda aoe/damage bad players standing in bad stuff. Big heals toping players easily, mana issue ? lol what, who's mana an old friend of yours ?
    - no more threat issue, no longer have to care about, focus fire, knowing what target is the tank target, using CC or even interrupt. Wrath of the lousy Aoe King
    - overly easy raids like naxx and sartha no adds.
    Guess what the pug that raided Sartha and Totc normal mode every weeks kinda failed at Ulduar (even in normal mode, even if outgearing the raid with t9).

    And then Cata came. If cata would have been the expac right after TBC or vanilla, cata would have been a lot nicer even for noobs and newbies.
    Yeah ... WotLK was when casual gameplay bloomed and socializing in WoW was at it's peak. How is that a bad thing. You still had hardcore raiding for those who wanted something harder. Healers were all mighty, tanking was easier and it was all fun. I remember running 5 mans in WotLK for fun ... just that. Didn't need gear from it, didn't need justice points ... just went there with bear druid and charged pack after pack to pew pew. In Cata we had to cc and runs in pug took up to 20 wipes to finish and it was fun for a few weeks ... and then it wasn't anymore. Number of healers who gave up and number of raid leaders who burned out and gave up was never as high as in the first months of Cata. The casual raid pugging community got destroyed on our server. Then Blizz went and nerfed everything, but the damage was done.

    What was so bad about WotLK where even noobs could join pugs and do some normal raiding, where leading raids had a good mix of challenge and feeling of acomplishment ... Both MoP and WotLK are better expansions than Cata and it is because casual raiding is accessible there.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  16. #216

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Because it's freshest in everyone's mind, while being easily compared to the excellence of MoP. It's actually kind of interesting how it's worked out:

    During TBC: 'omg TBC sucks, give back vanilla'
    During WotLK: 'omg WotLK sucks, give back TBC'

    During Cataclysm: 'omg Cata sucks, give back WotLK/TBC'
    During MoP: 'haha Cata sucked didn't it, glad it's gone'

    ...Wait what? Combo-breaker! It actually speaks volumes as to the quality of MoP when there's barely any QQ on the forums about the expansion, and people prefer it to the previous one.
    I don't remember anything like the scale of complaints that were directed at Cataclysm being present during TBC/WotLK. It seems to be a furphy thrown out by fans of Cataclysm as an impotent attempt to put the complaints in a false context. I do remember minor complaints about the levelling process of vanilla content during TBC, and of TBC content during WotLK, though - until XP requirements were lowered for each. I do remember that a very small percentage of people, special snowflakes in their own eyes, complained that WotLK delivered access to more areas of the game to casual players - it was a spectacular "How dare you give my old toys to the poor kids" moment for high-progression raiders, who still don't seem to recognise what an infinitesimally small portion of the playerbase they represent.

    Cataclysm attracted criticism from all crowds. For the player who only played one or two hours a night, gear progression at 85 was painstakingly slow. 5-mans weren't necessarily more challenging or engaging, they were just more difficult and slow-moving, which made the stingy Justice/Valor point system seem even worse when compared with its predecessor. Though both move faster now, the problem is still present to some degree in MoP, and exacerbated by gear being gated behind rep and daily quests.

    In other areas of the game, PvP was a total mess throughout the whole expansion, and Tol Barad was no exception - nowhere near as fun as Wintergrasp. Raiders had legitimate complaints about lazy raids, or cancelled raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's nothing wrong with Keynesian theory.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    I don't remember anything like the scale of complaints that were directed at Cataclysm being present during TBC/WotLK. It seems to be a furphy thrown out by fans of Cataclysm as an impotent attempt to put the complaints in a false context. I do remember minor complaints about the levelling process of vanilla content during TBC, and of TBC content during WotLK, though - until XP requirements were lowered for each. I do remember that a very small percentage of people, special snowflakes in their own eyes, complained that WotLK delivered access to more areas of the game to casual players - it was a spectacular "How dare you give my old toys to the poor kids" moment for high-progression raiders, who still don't seem to recognise what an infinitesimally small portion of the playerbase they represent.

    Cataclysm attracted criticism from all crowds. For the player who only played one or two hours a night, gear progression at 85 was painstakingly slow. 5-mans weren't necessarily more challenging or engaging, they were just more difficult and slow-moving, which made the stingy Justice/Valor point system seem even worse when compared with its predecessor. Though both move faster now, the problem is still present to some degree in MoP, and exacerbated by gear being gated behind rep and daily quests.

    In other areas of the game, PvP was a total mess throughout the whole expansion, and Tol Barad was no exception - nowhere near as fun as Wintergrasp. Raiders had legitimate complaints about lazy raids, or cancelled raids.
    Oh come on... Wrath of the Lich King was 'the worst thing ever' on the forums for ages, until cataclysm came out and it suddenly became the best thing ever and the way WoW was meant to be.

  19. #219
    That is very true.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    Oh come on... Wrath of the Lich King was 'the worst thing ever' on the forums for ages, until cataclysm came out and it suddenly became the best thing ever and the way WoW was meant to be.
    You say that, but you can't lend any specificity as to the nature of the complaints directed at WotLK. Even if you're right, you've still got to demonstrate that it came anywhere near the level of discontent experienced with Cataclysm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's nothing wrong with Keynesian theory.

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