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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    2nd. heroic dungeons were to easy (just like wrath).
    Excuse me, sir but:

    1.- You're a liar
    2.- You didn't play Cata's HC dungeons AT THE BEGINNING before the massive nerf. I did. And it was p-a-i-n-f-u-l.

    Why it was painful?: because we pass from the AOE grindfest of WOTLK dungeons to 'things' like 'Crowd Control', 'Stuns', 'Polymorph', 'Saps', etc, etc. 'Things' that nearly 90% of the friggin' players had forgotten.

  2. #262
    Cataclysm, was by Blizzards own admissions (maybe not in words but definitely in actions) was an example of what not to do.

    They have admitted that they spent far to much time on the old world, content that a fraction of the player base went and did and in turn neglected the 80-85 world.

    Dungeons, a lot of people enjoyed the difficult heroics a lot didnt. Blizzard said there would be a tough love approach and people should learn to play. They immediately backflipped and dungeons returned to the AoE fest of old.

    Raids, T11 was fantastic. T12 while the raid itself was good, its length proved to be its downfall. A 7 boss raid tier doesnt last long. What did they do next? They spat out Dragon Soul. A raid that did the impossible. Made us forget about ToC. From completely unengaging mechanics, minimalistic trash so we went from Boss to Boss. An extremely small final raid tier and horrible difficulty ramp up. Normal modes were an absolute joke. Most half competent guilds finished normal mode in its first week. Then heroic was a complete smash in the face. A lot of guilds had the choice of either be absolutely bored to tears in normal modes or be to challenged for heroics. We took a a month or so in normals getting everyone geared before we went to heroics but by the time we got there we didnt want to see the place anymore. We were so utterly bored of Dragon Soul and we werent the only ones. There is always a drop off towards the end of the expansion, but this drop off was the biggest ive seen.

    Not only that, but we fought a boss that we really didnt care to much about. A lot of people didnt have the same ties they did to Arthas, Illidan or Kael etc. A lot of people saw loot pinata.

    I think like the old world, LFR drained so much from the Dragon Soul development and it showed.

    Overall the expansion was boring. For the first time I actually leveled more alts and I hate leveling. I just had nothing to do.

    Look at MoP - theyve addressed so many issues we had in Cata. The 85-90 world is AMAZING. There is almost to much to do at level 90. Raids so far have been absolutely amazing. Difficult enough to stretch out. Long enough to feel epic. Amazing story. Dungeons are still the AoE fest but we have other options to feel challenged.
    Last edited by Murderdoll; 2013-05-01 at 10:49 PM.

  3. #263
    Cata was great, but could have been so much more... Nothing is perfect. 4.1 and 4.3, and the Female Worgen, well there's no excuses for not bashing it a little bit then!

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?
    Raiding was crap, questing was crap, gear looked like crap, the focused too much on old world not enough on end game...........I could go on, but I will say transmog was a good thing and even Ghostcrawler (sort of) admitted it was a bad expansion.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 11:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    Excuse me, sir but:

    1.- You're a liar
    2.- You didn't play Cata's HC dungeons AT THE BEGINNING before the massive nerf. I did. And it was p-a-i-n-f-u-l.

    Why it was painful?: because we pass from the AOE grindfest of WOTLK dungeons to 'things' like 'Crowd Control', 'Stuns', 'Polymorph', 'Saps', etc, etc. 'Things' that nearly 90% of the friggin' players had forgotten.
    They didn't forget, all the good players who remembered (a lot anyway) left.

  5. #265
    The Patient Trollfat's Avatar
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    Start of the expansion:
    -Disconnected 80-85 zones made people hang out in Org/SW all day
    -Horrible class balance
    -New heroic 5 mans were so much harder that it shocked a lot of people.
    -HUGE barrier of entry for raids. Wrath babies who were used to pugging ICC-25 man every week were wiping consistently on Magmaw. lots of guilds broken up here

    5.1
    -The two troll heroics, while fun for a while, were far too long and monotonous. They were the only relevant 5 man content for many months, which burnt out a lot of players. This is b/c they were the best way to get valor and the 353 epics bridged the gap for struggling raiders

    5.2
    -Firelands, an 8 boss raid, was very poor (except for Ragnaros). By far the worst raid released since ToC
    -A HUGE normal mode nerf to T11 upset a lot of players

    5.3
    -Just when raiders thought it couldn't get any worse, it did. Dragon soul=worst raid ever released.
    -Deathwing was a tremendous disappointment
    -Every 3 weeks or so Blizz nerfed DS by 5%, up until 35% i believe. This invalidated most mechanics in the instance and ruined any sense of progression for a lot of players. The raid, which wasn't great to begin with, was devalued over time. More players than EVER cleared Heroic Deathwing.

  6. #266
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    Excuse me, sir but:

    1.- You're a liar
    2.- You didn't play Cata's HC dungeons AT THE BEGINNING before the massive nerf. I did. And it was p-a-i-n-f-u-l.

    Why it was painful?: because we pass from the AOE grindfest of WOTLK dungeons to 'things' like 'Crowd Control', 'Stuns', 'Polymorph', 'Saps', etc, etc. 'Things' that nearly 90% of the friggin' players had forgotten.

    As a tank who was thouroughly familiar with such concepts as LOS, and CC, having learned them through B.C. no, actually they wre not painful, and within a few weeks of raiding CC was no longer needed.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  7. #267
    The heroic dungeons in the beginning of cata were still easy, it just required you to actually think now instead of mindlessly AOE trash.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    Excuse me, sir but:

    1.- You're a liar
    2.- You didn't play Cata's HC dungeons AT THE BEGINNING before the massive nerf. I did. And it was p-a-i-n-f-u-l.

    Why it was painful?: because we pass from the AOE grindfest of WOTLK dungeons to 'things' like 'Crowd Control', 'Stuns', 'Polymorph', 'Saps', etc, etc. 'Things' that nearly 90% of the friggin' players had forgotten.
    It was painful because of other players. And they couldn't cope with how "difficult" doing something simple like a a polymorph was. So Blizzard wrecked all difficulty, and any chance of ever having to use a small part of your brain in a heroic.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Yourcatdead View Post
    It was painful because of other players. And they couldn't cope with how "difficult" doing something simple like a a polymorph was. So Blizzard wrecked all difficulty, and any chance of ever having to use a small part of your brain in a heroic.
    Hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue tends to force design decisions like that. I doubt you talk more loudly than all that cash.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue tends to force design decisions like that. I doubt you talk more loudly than all that cash.
    I know. If I ran a business I'd do the same exact thing. Just sucks really.
    Last edited by Yourcatdead; 2013-05-02 at 04:38 AM.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    2.- You didn't play Cata's HC dungeons AT THE BEGINNING before the massive nerf. I did. And it was p-a-i-n-f-u-l.

    Why it was painful?: because we pass from the AOE grindfest of WOTLK dungeons to 'things' like 'Crowd Control', 'Stuns', 'Polymorph', 'Saps', etc, etc. 'Things' that nearly 90% of the friggin' players had forgotten.
    And most people seemed to catch on rather quickly. The ones that didn't?

    a) emo's who leave at the first wipe
    b) emo's who can't abide the idea of a healer having to refresh after every other pull.

    Stonecore, admittedly, was hell on tanks. And the one encounter where players had to block lasers, and then move out in time was also pretty tricky the first few times. The rest though? Just like everything else in this game, once you learned what to do, it wasn't that bad.

    Troll 5's were just as difficult, and folks seemed to adapt to them even quicker.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  12. #272
    Stood in the Fire Rickarus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?
    One major thing is the raids, too short, not very enjoyable in comparison to earlier (and later) raids, and it took far too long between getting new ones.

    Another was the difficulty jumps, compared to wotlk dungeons->heroics (easy->easy) and BC (difficult->difficult) the jump of easy->difficult was not something that people were ready for, and left people with a bad taste in their mouth from the get-go, the same can be said with normal to heroic rads, the first tier was the biggest culprit of it, with the jump from normal modes to hard modes being a far bigger jump than in WotLK, causing people to get frustrated, and then with the next two tiers, the difficulty of hard modes was not that bad, with the exception of the end bosses which were unproportionally more difficult than the rest.

    But the biggest factor, in my eyes, was the fact that there was simply nothing to do, dailies were all but pointless for a raider, running heroics for valor was largely unneeded for raiders, and the raids were so short that if you weren't progressing on a boss, you were through it in a couple hours at most.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue tends to force design decisions like that. I doubt you talk more loudly than all that cash.
    I doubt all the subs lost were due to heroics being more challenging, I know people who quit just because the leveling sucked and the overall design of the zones were bad, not to mention how many people were pissed off about phasing and not being able to help friends or collect ore/herbs.

  14. #274
    I liked Firelands. Varied and interesting mechanics and whatnot with a really solid endboss. Dragon Soul was... Not so good. T11 was cool!

    I certainly liked Cataclysm's content as individual pieces, but there really wasn't much to tie anything together. Unless you used an external source, there was no indication that BWD or To4W even existed. The zones themselves were gorgeous with solid storylines, but there wasn't any kind of overarching plot to the game; in WotLK, in every single zone, you pushed towards taking down either LK or Yoggy, whereas in Cata the most consistent element of the levelling zones is... Black swirly metal spikes. And spooky twilight guys with, uh, no discernable motive?... Other than DESTROYING THE WORLD MWAHAHA? yeah real compelling villains there

    And it doesn't help at all that they spent so much effort on redoing the levelling zones. While they were good, their implementation definitely detracted from the endgame, which is what 99% of the vocal population show up for.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  15. #275
    I thought the raids were okay, but the lack of anything interesting to do outside of raids just made many people--including myself--lose interest. Granted I didn't quit but was considering it for the first time in my entire WoW career.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?
    You kind of answered your own question. If it's the least favorite in the polls and also one of your least favorites than it's safe to say it was the worst expansion haha. Some other guy was right, it had so much potential, I think that's why we are all trying to wrap this one together. It had a lot of stuff that could seem cool, it was just simply not as fun. Say it's an old game or whatever, a lot of us were gung-ho about WoW still going into it. The game shifted when most of the ratings from PvP were removed, having to suffer the repercussions of the LFG Tool and the introduction of LFR (where we are now dealing with those repercussions). The game changed in negative ways among it's most devout players. "Cataclysm" became a pun.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?
    Posting my opinion on it, Cataclysm was terrible because of the following:

    -Revamp of old zones made it feel like you were on rails. Granted some of the quests were entertaining, but it didn't feel like I was in a world anymore. It felt more like a very guided, babysat questing experience.

    -Grim Batol was a HUGE let down for me. I read the lore on it, and in my mind I expected something darker and more of a feel of the mines of Moria (LotR) not a terrible rehash of Ironforge with a crappy faceless one as the last boss. Karazhan felt darker and more foreboding than Grim Batol.

    -Voice acting was TERRIBLE. The intro to Hyjal made me cringe, it felt like a cheap Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. Do I have to mention Hagara the Stormbinder? How about the end boss in Stonecore "feel the fury of DERP..I mean EAAARTH (taking a dump)" It really disengaged me from the game.

    -Blizzard did not release all of the dungeons/raids they had planned. I was terribly let down with how they left Vashj'ir storyline hanging. Also, The Well of Eternity was another colossal let down for me. I was expecting a raid. Heck, I was expecting to fight Azshara at some point and not in a crappy 5-man dungeon way where she leaves us to her lackeys. Nevermind the absence of major lore characters from the Well of Eternity (the Houndmaster, Sargeras, etc) aside from Azshara.

    -Uldum, the entire zone was crap. One giant Indiana Jones fanfic. Nothing really epic occurred there. (Don't bother mentioning the Al'Akir raid, it too was pathetic). You figure the elemental LORD OF AIR would have a zone the size of Ragnaros's domain, and we get nothing. It was amazing in concept and then poorly executed. Additionally, just the entire zone felt like a huge let down. Aside from the reasons given, I can't really put my finger on it but it just didn't feel right. It didn't feel like it even properly concluded the original discs of Norgannon questline nor did the busted hole in the tiny door match up. Sure Blizzard can just say "cloaking device magically failed due to Deathwing" but that felt like a very cheap cop-out.

    -Overall, the entire expansion felt very rushed and under-budget.

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Because it's freshest in everyone's mind, while being easily compared to the excellence of MoP. It's actually kind of interesting how it's worked out:

    During TBC: 'omg TBC sucks, give back vanilla'
    During WotLK: 'omg WotLK sucks, give back TBC'
    During Cataclysm: 'omg Cata sucks, give back WotLK/TBC'
    During MoP: 'haha Cata sucked didn't it, glad it's gone'

    ...Wait what? Combo-breaker! It actually speaks volumes as to the quality of MoP when there's barely any QQ on the forums about the expansion, and people prefer it to the previous one.

    The thing is, Cataclysm gave us a lot of amazing things that really changed the way we play the game: reforging, the old world content update, transmogrification, 10/25 mans giving the same loot, guild achievements, and more. The problem is that it was very easy for people to latch onto the idea of 'lol rehash', when really... barely anything was getting re-used. Let's go through the list:

    1. Old world content update: sorely needed. It's far better now.
    2. Nefarian/Onyxia: completely different boss fight, just happens to be people we've already killed before.
    3. Ragnaros: same as above. Also this boss fight is seen as a high quality fight in heroic.
    4. ZA/ZG: ZG was COMPLETELY different, just happened to be set in the same place as the old raid. ZA was more similar to its previous version, but still had a few differences.
    5. Dragon Soul: yeah, it had some bits set in Wyrmrest temple, but that's all it was. And it made sense that it was set there, lore-wise.

    The stuff we got was high quality in Cataclysm. The problem was that there wasn't enough of it, and people focused on this dumb 'rehash' idea. It also kinda sucked that we ended on a fairly mediocre raid. Not as bad as people say, but it could've been better. But hey.
    In my personal opinion Cataclysm is the worst expansion of them all...and no it's not because of as you said rehash thingy. It's because the overall content for max lvl wasn't enough it's a great expansion for alts and for visiting the renew Azeroth quests from lvl 1 to 60 but for max lvl? it has the least of content ever compare to other expansions. Least raids tiers, least dungeons, and least things to do while in max lvl compare to other expansions.

    Yes it gave us some cool features like reforge and transmog (Transmog in my opinion is the best feature ever happens in wow been waiting for it for so long)

    but in term of gameplay + raids quality it wasn't very good specially the end tier raid content for example....you really can't compare Dragon Soul raid to BT, or ICC really and no a lot of ppl hated DS not because it stays very very long but because it's quality was really low... barely any new evirment inside DS raid.

    The main problem with Cata that they spend most of their efforts of remaking the old worlds but when it comes to max lvl content (I'm not talking about raids only) it really lacks so much compare to other expansions.

  19. #279
    Because some people focus on the bad rather than the good. It was a balanced expansion for me, I liked parts and I hated parts, but it was enjoyable.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by hanketsu View Post

    -Uldum, the entire zone was crap. One giant Indiana Jones fanfic. Nothing really epic occurred there.
    The whole expansion I was waiting for another raid to be there. The MASSIVE structures there that were unused. The place looked amazing and nothing happened there? It felt like a giant wasted space. A Ulduar-esque raiding was begging to be done there.

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