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  1. #301
    cataclysm sucked much because of its shit way of getting items,
    some shitty patch in Wotlk gave us RDF, and every lazy scrub was pressing button to get in a dung,
    AFK all the day, people didnt know where are these instances, they just press one button and are ported to them,
    look back in the good days of the TBC or first half of Wotlk, get a party of experienced people, fly, summ, you feel the game

    now RDF LFR no matter what u do, how shit u are, u get the best gear easy peazy, i mean best, nobody cares if its heroic or not
    Last edited by Milerks; 2013-05-02 at 04:38 PM.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Part of the problem is that they drastically changed healing, and if your group's healer wasn't good under the new system it made everything absurdly painful. If you were one of the healers who adapted quickly, then you solved at least half of the problems most groups faced on your own.
    utter and complete nonsense. the healer was the least of the groups problems when Cata dropped, but the unfortunate butt of most of the hostility and abuse flying around in pugs. healers were being seen as "not good" when they couldnt magically heal dps that stood in crap that killed them in seconds. when groups decided to ignore cc and tanks picked up 5 mobs and died in a split second, healers got the blame. when things that needed interrupting didnt get interrupted, and tanks didnt bother with cooldowns....well, guess who got the finger pointed at them?

    Blizzard decided to change the whole ethos of the 5 man runs, but unfortunately all of the requirement to "learn" seemed to end up on the backs of healers. it was a shitstorm of insults and abuse for a good time after Cata dropped, and trust me it was no fun at all being a healer at that time.

    the sad thing is, they could have fixed it if they made some form of training for this sea change in 5 man philosophy. best approach would have been the idea of a 1 man dungeon, with AI controlled help to teach people their roles. then everyone would have gone into the heroics with an idea of what was expected of them, rather than just healers.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  3. #303
    Brewmaster Yuuki Asuna's Avatar
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    It was 'okay' in some sense. But there just...was nothing to do. I literally either sat in Stormwind and que for dungeons. If I didn't do that, I would farm ore. I can see why they took out the tabards for MoP simply because you ran out of things to do with no dailies in check. There wasn't much exploration in Cata since there were only portals to each place.

    So that's it. That's my reason.

    In MoP, I can que for dungeons, raids, and scenarios all the same time. I don't have to 'farm' for ore as there's plenty to come by, there is a lot of dailies but I only do a few factions a day, and I love the treasure hunting on Pandaria combine that with archaeology and it's awesome! The continent feel is back and I'm always going from zone to zone with something to do.

    In other words, they focused too much on redoing old content (which is okay) and less on end game at the time. MoP was all about 5 levels compared to 65. Cata's end game was...boring.
    I cried alone every single night. It felt like every day that passed here stole another piece of my real life away. After i cried, I’d go and fight as hard as I could. My only thought was winning, moving forward, and getting stronger. — Asuna Yuuki

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Milerks View Post
    cataclysm sucked much because of its shit way of getting items,
    some shitty patch in Wotlk gave us RDF, and every lazy scrub was pressing button to get in a dung,
    AFK all the day, people didnt know where are these instances, they just press one button and are ported to them,
    look back in the good days of the TBC or first half of Wotlk, get a party of experienced people, fly, summ, you feel the game

    now RDF LFR no matter what u do, how shit u are, u get the best gear easy peazy, i mean best, nobody cares if its heroic or not
    Why do you even bother to post if you're going to put so little effort into your opinion?

    Look back at the good days of TBC? You mean sitting in trade for 30-minutes to a couple hours just to get a decent group together? Then going back and waiting another 30 minutes because someone in the group didn't have the rep-key to enter? Bet you forgot about that, eh? Oh, and then waiting ANOTHER 20 minutes for ONE other player to fly out to the stone and summon. Yeah, you totally forgot that part.

    Best gear from LFR? Nobody cares if it's heroic? I certainly fucking care if it's heroic, especially since that heroic gear helps me kill more heroics. I mean, are you retarded? Do you understand that you just said something that made absolutely no sense? Go away.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Why do you even bother to post if you're going to put so little effort into your opinion?

    Look back at the good days of TBC? You mean sitting in trade for 30-minutes to a couple hours just to get a decent group together? Then going back and waiting another 30 minutes because someone in the group didn't have the rep-key to enter? Bet you forgot about that, eh? Oh, and then waiting ANOTHER 20 minutes for ONE other player to fly out to the stone and summon. Yeah, you totally forgot that part.
    Why didn't you make friends? If you're too anti-social to make friends in an MMORPG then play another game.

  6. #306
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Why didn't you make friends? If you're too anti-social to make friends in an MMORPG then play another game.
    That's gotta be the lamest counter-argument I've seen on this site yet. I personally don't find it appealing making friends online, I never see those persons, I never directly interact with those persons, I never get to hang out with those people, I only get to read their words or at most listen to their voice, and honestly, I personally don't find it appealing. So if a game forces me to do something I don't want to, it can go directly in the trash bin. Does that sound like good game design to you? There's a reason the LFG and LFR tools were introduced, and there's a reason the numbers of people experiencing raids have sky-rocketed since the introduction of LFR.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    That's gotta be the lamest counter-argument I've seen on this site yet. I personally don't find it appealing making friends online...
    Then don't play an MMORPG, and don't change the game to suit your selfish anti-social needs.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Why didn't you make friends? If you're too anti-social to make friends in an MMORPG then play another game.
    Well, let's see: I'm in a guild that raids 3 days a week. Generally, people don't work out in guilds if they don't make friends. Therefore, I've made friends.

    Indeed, I did make friends in BC. We did plenty of heroics and raids together. But, surprise surprise, sometimes my friends don't play at the same times as I do! Schedules don't always match up? WHAT. A. SHOCKER.

    I'm going to give you a little piece of advice: Try to pick apart your own suggestions before you make them. If there's something OBVIOUS that makes your suggestion fall apart, then maybe keep it to yourself? Because you just made yourself look like a fucking moron.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Well, let's see: I'm in a guild that raids 3 days a week. Generally, people don't work out in guilds if they don't make friends. Therefore, I've made friends.

    Indeed, I did make friends in BC. We did plenty of heroics and raids together. But, surprise surprise, sometimes my friends don't play at the same times as I do! Schedules don't always match up? WHAT. A. SHOCKER.

    Get a clue.
    If you couldn't find a group it was your own fault. The game can't do everything for you.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    If you couldn't find a group it was your own fault. The game can't do everything for you.
    But... I could find groups. Did you even read my post? Apparently not. Go back and read it again and then don't bother posting again, because you're just digging yourself deeper and deeper.

    I mean, you QUOTED me and then completely ignored the contents of the quote. Do you understand how posting on forums works? You generally read what someone has written and then reply based on what that person said. You are clearly having difficulty with this.

  11. #311
    Didnt like Cata, not because 5 mans were too hard, because they were far too long.

    The opening raids were so hard, my vanilla guild who had fought through every raid tier since beta broke up. The gap from dungeon to raid gear was far too big.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    But... I could find groups. Did you even read my post? Apparently not. Go back and read it again and then don't bother posting again, because you're just digging yourself deeper and deeper.

    I mean, you QUOTED me and then completely ignored the contents of the quote. Do you understand how posting on forums works? You generally read what someone has written and then reply based on what that person said. You are clearly having difficulty with this.
    If you can't play at the same time as your friends then it's your own fault.

    That's not the game's fault. I'm surprised you even made friends with such a bitter attitude.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    If you can't play at the same time as your friends then it's your own fault.

    That's not the game's fault. I'm surprised you even made friends with such a bitter attitude.
    What is your fucking deal, dude? I wasn't complaining about not being able to find groups. I've never had issues finding groups and I have no idea why you're thinking that.

    I only ever have a bitter attitude when it's in response to idiotic posts. I do not act like this in-game, because I don't associate with idiots in-game.

    Let's recap: Someone said that cata sucked because of LFR and Dungeon Finder. The example he used for better times was TBC. I pointed out that, in TBC, a lot of groups took forever to form, took forever to actually get to the instance (because no one ever cared to fly out and always wanted summons), took forever to start the instance (because by the time you started summons, someone had inevitably gone afk), and ran into problems like people not having the rep-keys required to zone into those instances on heroic, which further delayed the run. These are all completely legitimate (and common) criticisms and I am hardly the first person to ever post about them.

    You replied by saying, "Why didn't you make friends?" Of course, I had plenty of friends in TBC. I raided and did heroics with them. Sometimes I'd log on after they had already done heroics, which meant that they were saved (another thing you apparently didn't even consider). Sometimes I'd log on when the guild wasn't as active. Not ONCE did I complain about this.

    You replied by saying, "If you couldn't find a group it was your own fault. The game can't do everything for you." Okay, fine. But I never had problems finding a group (or making a group, for that matter). Indeed, I had cleared all heroics early in BC and did them on a regular basis.

    You replied by saying "That's not the game's fault. I'm surprised you even made friends with such a bitter attitude." You do realize that you've been attacking me and others right off the bat, right? You have absolutely no room to talk when it comes to "bitter attitudes."

    Ever since you've started replying to me, you haven't once commented on the content of my posts. It's pretty obvious that you haven't read a single goddamned thing I've written. You've simply attacked me at every turn. Guess what that is? Harassment.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    utter and complete nonsense. the healer was the least of the groups problems when Cata dropped, but the unfortunate butt of most of the hostility and abuse flying around in pugs. healers were being seen as "not good" when they couldnt magically heal dps that stood in crap that killed them in seconds. when groups decided to ignore cc and tanks picked up 5 mobs and died in a split second, healers got the blame. when things that needed interrupting didnt get interrupted, and tanks didnt bother with cooldowns....well, guess who got the finger pointed at them?
    Wait.. .what?

    Healers in starter cata gear had terrible mana recuperation issues, no matter what class the player was. Unless the group was doing absolutely clean and textbook pulls, your healer was likely stopping to drink a lot. And if they weren't clean, your healer was simply going OOM.

    This went away as folks got better gear of course, but during the adjustment period, healers had a very rough time.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
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  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Milerks View Post
    cataclysm sucked much because of its shit way of getting items,
    some shitty patch in Wotlk gave us RDF, and every lazy scrub was pressing button to get in a dung,
    AFK all the day, people didnt know where are these instances, they just press one button and are ported to them,
    look back in the good days of the TBC or first half of Wotlk, get a party of experienced people, fly, summ, you feel the game

    now RDF LFR no matter what u do, how shit u are, u get the best gear easy peazy, i mean best, nobody cares if its heroic or not
    Funny thing is at the beginning of mop, I began with some guildies to do challenge modes and on the first day we ended up using half an hour to find hour where the different dungeons actually where. Because of LFD well it wasn't something we had cared about.

    You do not get the best gear from shall we say that specific time period of the game, but on the other hand in LFR you do get stuff that looks like it, its like buying a fake gucci bag.
    And then again you end up asking yourself do I want to invest the time needed to get the best items in the game from this time period. Because as soon as the next patch drops your precious pixels will be obsolete again. Am I not simply satisfied with getting my fake gucci bag, I still get a bag. And I get it without having to invest all to much time to get it compared to normal/heroic raiding.
    And yes you do invest quite a lot of time in raiding. And unfortunatly now a days with mop you invest a lot of extra time in raiding compared to previous expansions. And that is not time spent doing actual raiding, but rather time spent doing stuff to get you prepared for it coins,valor cap, LFR gear upgrade grind, daylies for rep etc.

    LFD and LFR are nice features for convenience. But I most admit I did begin not to do dungeons together with guildies the moment LFD was implemented and somehow well it was a pitty, but I could live with it.

    But I am beginning to drift off topic.

  16. #316
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statix View Post
    Cataclsym was bad for a lot of reasons. They changed a lot of classes. Mage for example. The Fireball glyph changed from crit to haste. Pre-Cataclysm, but with all the changes implemented in WotLK, the difference wasn't noticable. But once Fire Mages hit level 85, they sucked balls. No crits, no Pyroblast, no DPS. And the best part is, they barely fixed it. I remember Fire being so broken in Firelands I actually quit my Mage and leveled a Hunter.

    Cataclysm is where Blizzard got lazy. In WotLK there were constant class fixes. In Cata, Fire Mages were broken up until Dragon Soul. Dragon Soul was a crappy raid. It wasn't epic. We didn't even really get to fight Deathwing, just some stupid tentacles. In the end, what did we really do? Ragnaros was the fight Deathwing should have been. It was epic, Ragnaros is epic. Deathwing was a pussy. Where was he the entire expansion? Occasionaly flying over the map killing everyone?

    The Lich King was present in so many Dungeons and Raids, you really felt his presence, the threat he posed. ICC is still the greatest raid ever created, simply because of the variety of bosses, but still it felt complete. The Lich King's monolog when you enter ICC; amazing. I can still get goosebumbs when I enter ICC. The trailers for WotLK were also a lot better. "Let them come, Frostmourne hungers!", arguably the best WoW quote out there.

    ICC had 12 bosses, but on a farm night, it would take just as much time as clearing DS's 8 bosses. Blizzard just made fights lenghtier to make it seem as if the raids are as long as they were in WotLK because they ran out of ideas. Again, laziness. Leveling in Cataclysm was also a step down. I looked forward to my new talent point when I leveled. In Cata I had to level 2 levels before I got one.

    Wrath of the Lich King was considered a step down from The Burning Crusade when it was released, but when Cataclysm hit, everyone loved Wrath of the Lich King. People said everyone would love Cataclysm aswell, once Mists of Pandaria was released. But that didn't happen. WotLK was bashed because it wasn't TBC, people just wanted TBC back. Cataclysm was simply a bad expansion.

    Mists of Pandaria is a huge improvement, but the laziness of Blizzard is still there. Just the insane amount of dailies proves this. They are trying to make the game seem lengthier by just adding a lot of the same shit. Countless of dailies to farm rep. It litteraly takes you months to complete.

    WoW has a reversed design process. Where other games become more refined and more complicated, WoW becomes crude and easy. WoW is being dumbed down. Now that I think of it, the perfect comparison is the WWE. It used to be amazing in the Attitude Era, but once we entered the PG era, it's barely a shadow of its former self. Why? Because it started to focus on kids. WoW is doing the same. It isn't honoring it's loyal players by keeping the game a challange, no, they are making it easier. Less talents, because there were cookie cutter builds. Blabla, they are still there. It's just easier to switch talents now. Had they made it that easy in WotLK, it would have been exactly the same as it is now.

    Cataclysm is the John Cena of WoW.

    You are right about Cataclysm expansion indeed I agree with you. However, I disagree with you about WoW now specially Mist of Pandaria is super easy or WoW in general back in the day was more challenging than now..nope I think you are wrong in this statement..here me out.

    The main reason you feel that vanilla and TBC was a lot more harder than WoW now (talking about Mist not the crappy Cata) because back in the day WoW was still a new MMO game. The game was still fresh and it's playerbase not as experienced as now (Obviously there are still unexperiened and not good players but you got the idea). There was no such thing as DBM or bigwigs to help you out durning raids or dungeons. These are the main reasons that you really feel vanilla was more refined than now and more challenging than now (There are some exceptions encounters in Vanilla and TBC ofc but still again you got the idea).

    If you really think MoP is super easy try doing gold medal challenge modes durning the launch or try Lei Shen heroic. I'm pretty sure you will not be dissapointed.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Wait.. .what?

    Healers in starter cata gear had terrible mana recuperation issues, no matter what class the player was. Unless the group was doing absolutely clean and textbook pulls, your healer was likely stopping to drink a lot. And if they weren't clean, your healer was simply going OOM.

    This went away as folks got better gear of course, but during the adjustment period, healers had a very rough time.
    i was responding to someone saying that healers were the problem. they werent, generally. most healers knew what they needed to do pretty damn quickly. but they were surrounded by tanks and dps that thought it was still LK, and had zero incentive to learn when they could just wipe and blame/kick the healers. that was what i was trying to get across.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  18. #318
    Pit Lord Frolk's Avatar
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    Cata was fine, untill 4.3/DS lasted for 1year...
    I put the laughter in manslaughter
    Blood DK problems: to many ppl at daily place, cant pull 8packs *cries*
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  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Wait.. .what?

    Healers in starter cata gear had terrible mana recuperation issues, no matter what class the player was. Unless the group was doing absolutely clean and textbook pulls, your healer was likely stopping to drink a lot. And if they weren't clean, your healer was simply going OOM.

    This went away as folks got better gear of course, but during the adjustment period, healers had a very rough time.
    well that is what he said actually. Healers where fucked on 2 fronts crap gear and people doing stupid things requiring the healer to heal his butt out.
    I remember a tank getting pissed at me at the beginning of cata because i couldn't keep him alive at the first boss at grim batol.
    His stand apparently was that only because the purple add blew up next to the boss at the beginning of the fight and thus enraging the boss i schould be perfectly able to heal him...

    On trash packs there was very little understanding of please do not pull them all, please cc 1 or 2 adds. I will go oom trying to keep you all alive if you do not cc. After which you will acuse me of being a crappy healer who cannot mana manage and who has to drink all the time...

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Ever since you've started replying to me, you haven't once commented on the content of my posts. It's pretty obvious that you haven't read a single goddamned thing I've written. You've simply attacked me at every turn. Guess what that is? Harassment.
    You said:

    "You mean sitting in trade for 30-minutes to a couple hours just to get a decent group together?"

    If you had friends who played at the same time as you then this wasn't a problem. At all. Many players were just too lazy to make tanks or healers back then. I remember the start of TBC when Heroics were unpuggable. It was awesome. I even remember Heroic Skyriss before they nerfed him. There was no room for bad players. You either made friends or didn't see the game. You either learned to play or didn't progress.

    That's gone. Cata tried to bring that back at the start but people just want to faceroll to gear -- gear that they'd replace in a few months.

    I'd rather make friends and adapt to something hard than play with four silent players who have trouble pressing two buttons because they don't need to improve in a 10 minute interactive movie.

    But that's what you prefer right?

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