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  1. #61
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    Firelands was small and lasted for quite a while, and the massive gap in skill and gear required between the first 6 bosses and the last boss on Heroic, was kinda silly.
    The expansion itself was a massive World of Portalcraft one: nothing felt connected, everything had loadscreens or queues.

    Dragon Soul's tier was shitty in the sense that you had to take a portal or flightpath to EVERY bossfight, further contributing to World of Portalcraft. The entire instance was stuck in a square cut in a wall of the caverns of time, with some art assets thrown in that hole with some instance portals. This is by far not as nice as Black Temple, Sunwell's isle, Icecrown Citadel, or Ulduar.
    The inside of the instance was 99% rehash: Wyrmrest temple. Maws that were used in Twilight Highlands. Eye of Eternity. More Wyrmrest temple. Gunship. Only Spine and Madness were somewhat new in environment, but grossly compensated negatively by starting with a loadscreen and a ton of RP, and shitty mechanics. I was warlock, Spine HC. Yeah. Final fight consisted of peeling off plates of the back of the boss, and scratching loose his nails and chin so that the NPCs could do the real work. Oh, and Thrall turned from a badass warchief into a massive sissy, the whole Aggra thing as well as the Dragon Soul beamshooting thing was just cringeworthy.

    The DS loot system was the worst ever: For the first time ever only dropping 1 normal item from tokenbosses, and no coins or whatever to compensate. BiS trinkets stuck behind an RNG wall, only 6 bosses had a miniscule chance of dropping one of these, as well as the only item for some classes stuck on those bosses that only drop 1 out of their 12 normal items (IE: tanking shield, took us 9 months). I personally ran all bosses in DS from release to Cataclysm lauch: some items just only dropped once or never on 10man.

    The DS nerf system was the worst ever: Blindly after 2-3 months, EVERY MONTH WITHOUT FAIL, 5% nerf. As someone who finished Madness HC with 15% nerf, we just did not get a chance to properly progress on some fights. You looked forward to Ultraxion's DPS check? Let's get 5% nerf as soon as you get there. Not soaking on gunship consistent enough, truly having to progress? 10% nerf in your face, and it doesn't hurt anymore. Trying to min-max on Spine? Let's throw a 15% nerf in your face so you can just do it without having to try. From 20% and onwards: Abilities that should oneshot you were survivable, making farming DS a complete borefest. These nerfs shouldn't have affected Heroic, period. The Spine Tendons HP nerf was a good one, flat nerfs had to be replaced with targeted nerfs.


    TLDR: 90% that was bad was DS, and the fact that DS covered 55% of the duration of the expansion, made the overall expansion bad too, especially because the previous 45% wasn't that good that we could forgive it that easily.
    Last edited by Szemere; 2013-04-30 at 12:26 PM.
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  2. #62
    The Patient meloreandor's Avatar
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    At first when I seen the Cataclysm reveal trailer I thought it would have been the best Expansion ever. The reason why Cata lowed for me is because of the cut content, rushed and lack level 85 content(I understand the 1-60 and I wouldn't say lack since we got Molten front, Tol Barad, LFR and what not.) But if I had to rate Cata I would rate it 7 out of 10 because of the New Graphics, Races and the Redone 1-60. In my opinion it wasn't the worst expansion in my opinion, just rushed and cut content.

  3. #63
    Cataclysm was easily the worst X-pac for numerous reasons, and it was dissapointing since it had been heavily hyped after a lot of people had become jaded with WoW in the later stages of WOLK.

    By biggest problem with Cataclysm was the game continuing the trend of making things increasingly easy. Levelling became super fast, dungeons were nerfed into complete facerolls, rushing people through tiers.

  4. #64
    cata had huge potential,

    who among the veteran warcraft fans from the days on WC1 didnt want to visit the elemental plane?
    add to that the war of the ancient raid and a major xpac villian so powerfull and big that normal methods of killing final bosses which we used up untill now wouldnt be enough anymore to kill him and so a time travel is needed...

    alas, in the end the 1-60 revamp took so much time they had to start the xpac already behind schedule so alot of what was planned got cancled or narrowed down and blizz had to fill in the gaps with easy reused designs of instances and raids allready exist in the game.

    the end result was a lacking xpac but the idea and lore behind it is way better then what i am seeing in MoP which is killing the same old panda lore bosses which the panderans killed ages ago without any outside help ,
    and while we are not doing that , we tend to thier farms while they sit and drink beer all day..

  5. #65
    There isn't alot to compare it to. When Wrath was current, all it had to do was be slightly worse than BC and it would be the worst. Now there are 4 expansions, current doesn't count because it has no nostalgia yet, so if Cata comes in third (as it does according to OP) then it is the worst. It doesn't mean it is bad, just means that it isn't as good as the others.

  6. #66
    I believe the old world revamp was over-hyped ... some questing retuning ... but the 'world remade' sort of hyperbole was such a vast overstatement it felt quite dull exploring in reality. The biggest changed zone imo was 1k needles. I understand even some of the minor stuff may have taken some time ... but I was expecting lots of updated textures as well ... and they didn't work on the flight enough ... if you were flying to high going to hyjal, you were hitting an invisible ceiling and could be dismounted if not careful. I personally think the way they design trees needs to be redone ... not in art style, but just a bit less flat panels of leaves.

    The initial dungeons were challenging. That wasn't the issue in particular, imo. What happened was ... we came off of a year of being overpowered/overgeared for nearly everything. They developed dungeons that required CC. They didn't program LFG to ensure a group had CC. Thus, if you didn't go in/queue with a preformed group ... you had a high chance of not having any CC and facing hours of wiping on the CC required trash; even on normals.

    T11 wasn't bad at all. T12 ... well FL was well designed; it just shouldn't have been a stand-alone raid/tier; similar to how ToC shouldn't have been. 5-8 bosses just isn't enough for a full tier; it is better as filler content. DS was a let down to a lot of people, who gobbled up the hype of DW going to be epic battles ... and were let down when it was basically two tentacle fights back to back. Overall, it wasn't so bad, just disappointment is a hard thing to fight, and add in the limited boss fights, it had a hard time fighting off the feeling for some.

    If you look back at the most loved raids ... they all had adequate size and a sense of atmosphere. Kara, ICC, Ulduar, old Naxx, etc. (again, I feel FL would hit this list, if there was a companion raid ... T12 should've been all elementals lords (saving/defeating them) ... al'akir could've been saved for t12, saving neptulon in abyssal maw, etc).

    T11 did have less of the 'freebie' boss feel. All the initial fights in the 3 instances took coordination. This meant, after > year of people being able to at least clear the 1st wing of ICC with fresh alts with little to no skill (including the 30% buff), a lot of people just hit their face against a wall from lack of gear and coordination which also killed the trade pugging for a lot of servers.

    LFR wasn't bad per se ... but the top guild exploits didn't help its cause; the afkers and loot drama made it seem even worse. Though, it is a great tool for most people. I feel the overall fix, is that current raids miss out on one boss in lfr, until the next tier comes out. Current ex: Lei Shen shouldn't be in LFR until the next tier is released. This way, LFR-only players will still get to see every boss except heroic-only bosses, just on a delayed schedule. It allows normal raiders a bit of exclusivity (final tier boss), just as heroic raiders deserve theirs as well (sinestra/ra-den).

    The 4.1 troll dungeons weren't bad in general ... some were upset they couldn't do their old mount runs. Some hated the nostalgia kill. Some just felt that a revamp of two dungeons was fine, but only if it came with other unique/new dungeons as well ... since 4.1 was at first claimed to be a raid patch that the raid was pushed back ... so it felt they 'threw' together these (while taking away the originals), content for content sake (although it wasn't quite, there was lore/questing added in with it).

    It, for me personally, IS the worst xpac. BC was amazing. WotLK was amazing. Cata was just meh. MoP, is better than Cata, but there were certain things I don't agree with that just makes it bleh to me; though they are definitely putting much more effort in and I can respect that. Vanilla was great, from what I can tell (started dabbling in WoW in BC), because of Blizz itself. They interacted in-game a lot. You would see GMs. They would do random stuff to players/zones. Gave a sense of interaction from the developers with the community and made the world feel more dynamic, when they were allowed to say, drop a world boss type mob on your face.
    Because of the knee-jerk crying from the pre-wrath event ... they are never going to do stuff like that again. Even though if you asked a lot of those people now, they'd have fonder memories of the event than the frustration they initially felt and whined about. The nail in the coffin for that stuff; was the pre-cata ele invasions that people once again, whined about it messing up their ah camping/whatever ... instead of them just going to Dal/Darn/SMC to conduct business.

    Hopefully, they continue their upturn in ideas, design, content delivery, lore, etc. There are some things I wish they'd revert, but that is purely personal, and I am sure that a lot of people love those changes, so I either deal with it, or pass on it, whether it be a class/spec, or some other part of the game. It isn't designed for me, no matter how much nostalgia I have for the spec(s) I loved for 5 years that is now changed so much it might as well be called something else. In fact, these particular MoP changes for me, left a really bad taste, and gave some bonus saving grace to Cata for me ... at least my main spec wasn't reinvented; even though the healing spec I played less of was homogenized into a shadow of its former self.

  7. #67
    If like some of us who played since Vanilla, when cata came along it just felt like it was more an ongoing patch rather then a new expansion because it just seemed like they revamped everything rather then adding new content, don't get me wrong, 4 new zones but they were crap, there was no epic feel.

    Also the other part you might want to consider is the fact with it being such a revamp heavy expack, it basically meant we'd already paid once if not twice for that particular content so when cata came along it was more like we were paying X amount for a new box with old content in, don't know about you, but unless it's a holiday abroad to some hot country, I don't particularly like paying for the same thing over and over, it'd be like buying 100 copies of the same dvd, waste of money and pointless.

    Now i know some gonna say "well you pay the same subs every month", true but that's a minor inconvenience to the price you pay for the actual expansions, especially if like some people you bought the limited edition or annual pass or in some cases you bought both, which basically felt like a kick in the teeth once you actually got to play it.

    Cata was really badly designed and that's the end of it but I don't put that failure fully at Blizz's feet, it's mostly down to activision wanting return on their investment in the company which most likely lead to blizz being rushed to bring out an expack without the full bells and whistles.

    The other thing that probably bugged people, myself heavily included, was the removal of separate raid lockouts which meant if you wanted to raid more in a given week you *HAD* to get an alt sorted or wait for reset and be bored out your mind, personally I didn't have a single alt til cata came along, now MoP's here though and the raids and content are actually worth spending time on, I've gone back to playing just the 1 toon although I'd happily go back to raiding both 10 & 25 every week given the chance, hell I'd happily go back to 40man raiding if I could haha.

    But on a final note - I understand not everyone got to enjoy the glory of the good old days, but that's what they were, good old days, leave the old content alone, stop bringing back old raid bosses/raids/dungeons and focus more on new content or stop labeling the next expack as a *new* expansion because if it turns out like cata, it's basically just the old stuff with a new decor. I understand there are certain lore aspects and storylines but not if it means going back over and over the same old material but with new fancy colours and throw pillows...

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightelfsb View Post
    It was Blizzards first step towards the deciline off wow, as there main focus. 4.1 showed that - rehershed 5 mans, instead off Firelands as we exspected. So we had to deal with 5 man's, and when 4.2 shipped it wasen't really that good. Firelands was a great raid, mainly bagged by Ragnaros trough.

    But 4.3 ruined wow for many. For the first time you see even old timers calling it quits. Dragon Soul is the worst raid ever made. It screamed lazyness so badly it can't be forgiven. Blizzard from now clearly shows there main focus aint on wow content anymore. What it is now, I have no idea about - Maybe SC2? Can't think off other games (titan dosen't exsist hurr hurr) that takes away there focus.
    Lolz, peoples were already saying that when Burning Crusade came out.
    "The expension killed the game"
    "No more world pvp"
    "Arena sucks"

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  9. #69
    Firelands and DS were average/terrible raids. The latter being a complete fail in my opinion.
    No new continent. I appreciate the work they did remaking the old zones but that's 'dead content' to the majority of people who already had level 80 chars.
    Slooow content releases. Poor raids and slow content doesn't make for a good match.


    Everything just felt drab and stale, iv played WoW for over 7 years now and Cata for me was easily the worst expansion to date. There's some annoyances about MoP but on the whole is twice the game Cataclysm was.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Except that it wasn't old content after they revamped it. Just lower-level content. They completely changed the storylines, quests, terrain and feel of the bulk of the old zones. It was definitely new content after they were finished with it. The only problem with it was that it was way underappreciated because a lot of people were just focused on the high-level rather than the low. As someone who enjoys rolling the odd alt now and again just for a change of pace, I thought they did a spectacular job, particularly with how well the story for each zone flowed as opposed to several questing hubs per zone that had nothing to do with one another. It's just content that not a lot of people saw because they weren't interested in anything that didn't reward them with better gear.

    So it was a "revamp" of old content.... not something new that EVERYONE would need to do. You're trying too hard to validate it's merits, when there is no need, it was extremely well done, even necessary, but it wasn't new, or an expansion on what was already there.. Putting new soles on and old pair of shoes doesn't make them new either.

    You seem to have missed it, but I said the redo gets glossed over far too much and that it was likely the biggest/best contribution to the XP, but the reality is that the altoholic types didn't really need to go back and redo those levels and many others never experienced it, all they saw was, look its a new crack in the ground and I can fly.

    I stand by my comments, it was content many had zero use for and not an expansion in the sense that people have grown accustomed to.

  11. #71
    My opinion?

    Because Cataclysm end-game sucked.

    Everything else about it was pretty amazing. The story-telling, lore setting and introduction, the revamped zones (which was freaking fantastic by the way), etc etc.

    But I think all of the above came at the cost of end game quality suffering badly at the start of the expansion and continuing almost until the end. The streamlining of end game content, game balance and setup felt klunk, unfinished and wierd. PvP balance was beyond horrible, and PvE wasn't too far behind in that respect. Not saying that there is perfect balance in the game now, but it is tolerable. Something that end game in Cata was far from.

    Some people may disagree with me, either fully or partially, but as far as the nuts and bolts of the endgame and it's content and balancing are concerned 5.2 MOP is massive leaps and bounds ahead of Cata in each and every way.

  12. #72
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Cataclysm had SO. MUCH. POTENTIAL. It could've been thé best WoW expansion without a doubt, but somehow due to a trillion of things it just crashed and burned hard.

    It introduced a lot of great things, it brought Azeroth up to speed with the current events and there was a lot of great lore... However, it was just... A waste honestly.
    The main idea behind the revamp of 1-60 was to close and wrap up a lot of questions and quest lines, instead it did the opposite.

    Sigh.
    This is how I feel, Cataclysm took everything I loved about Warcraft and put it into an expansion. Deathwing, Ragnaros, Nefarian, Garrosh making war as the new Warchief, all the goods, and somehow it still fucked up. After the fiasco that was WotLK I really hoped that they could redeem what they had ruined with the Scourge, but nope.

    It was amazing at launch, but quickly went downhill. The launch heroics were the best dungeons the game has ever had, and the raids were pretty good too, even if they were small, they were still better than 2 one-boss raids and 1 big rehashed mess. Some zones were good, others weren't, Hyjal and Deepholm were amazing, while Vashj'ir, Uldum and Twilight Highlands were pretty bad. Patch 4.1 quickly threw the awesome dungeons away for mediocre rehashed dungeons, and everything went downhill from there. 7 bosses couldn't hold a entire tier, despite all the boss battles being of high quality, and Dragon Soul was the final nail in the coffin, being the worst raid the game has ever had imo. The lore was probably the worst though, Deathwing used to be one of the best lore characters in the game, but was reduced to nothing more than a cliché villain, much like Lich King, just not quite as shitty, though Deathwing in the books was a much better character than Arthas has ever been, so it still hit me harder. And seeing Deathwing turn to pixie dust in the final encounter, what the hell man, my expectations had already been set low as hell since Cata had been a big pooper at this point, and the Madness fight was just so fucking bad, but Deathwing's death still stands as one of the most dissapointing, if not the most dissapointing moment in any video game I've ever played, just looking at that death, it makes me weep inside. Overall it also just had a big lack of things to do, when you had all the reputation enchants and was saved for all raids of the week, then you were out of stuff to do, which just sucked.

    I think it gets a tad too much hate for what it deserves, it's at least not as bad as TBC or WotLK (though I know many disagree with my statement right here,) but it just had so much more potential, it was given that it'd be my favorite expansion of all-time, but somehow they flopped it.
    Last edited by MasterOfKnees; 2013-04-30 at 12:19 PM.

  13. #73
    Firelands

    The bosses were mostly ok with the exception of rhyolith, that one was frustrating as hell, i really hated it.
    I did like a lot alysrazor (so much stuff to avoid in heroic, it was a mind melt as tank, and heroic ragnaros, the 4 other were classic but ok.

    But the landscape, the art, the environement, i hated it. It was so boring, so unchanging, so ... brown looking.
    Everytime i entered i felt, i didn't want to be here.
    Still it was better than DS.



    zul gurub was ok, because the totally rework the bosses and mechanics, so though the zone was very well known, we still had to learn the fight. And the fight were reasonably challenging.

    Zul aman was just lazy, same bosses, same mechanics, didn't even try to fit the dungeon to the recent development of the lore. And a pink bear? seriously? zul aman 5 man was an insult to the fantastic 10 man raid of TBC.
    Last edited by Vankrys; 2013-04-30 at 12:19 PM.

  14. #74
    Cata had huge potential, but blizzard decided that instead of giving people lore ingame, they provide the whole Cata-lore through Books; and that was the most stupiest thing that they did. The same happened in Theramore again, but not as worse as they did in Cata.

    Do even one know what happened to Benedictus? Why he did gone mad? No one ingame even know that he was the Twilight Father and why he did what he did. The most people even didn't know this title.

    Sadly cata was simply bad. No Lore, no patches; 4.1 was only an upgrade from old Instances, 4.2 was sadly bad because the new daily-zone in fireland was completed after 30 days and you could get anything you wanted after this and so on. 4.3 was Dragon Soul: sadly the worst raid Blizzard created. The only interresting thing of Dragon Soul was to visit the Eye again and Spine of Deadwing.

    Only good thing that blizzard added in 4.3 was LFR; beside all cryers here in the Threads. LFR helped that many people can now see raid content; and even if so many people here cry, instead of creating content for 1% of the people, they create them now for at least 50%.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Emi666 View Post
    But on a final note - I understand not everyone got to enjoy the glory of the good old days, but that's what they were, good old days, leave the old content alone, stop bringing back old raid bosses/raids/dungeons and focus more on new content or stop labeling the next expack as a *new* expansion because if it turns out like cata, it's basically just the old stuff with a new decor.
    As someone who also started eight years ago back in the "good old days" let me say: Take off the rose-colored glasses. Vanilla WoW (and TBC) had plenty of aspects that needed changing/updating and I'm glad the devs DO go back and revisit older content and attempt to improve it rather than ignore it all completely. Also, part of the reason they revamp some older content is because there are a lot of people who are constantly bugging them to do so.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    As someone who also started eight years ago back in the "good old days" let me say: Take off the rose-colored glasses. Vanilla WoW (and TBC) had plenty of aspects that needed changing/updating and I'm glad the devs DO go back and revisit older content and attempt to improve it rather than ignore it all completely. Also, part of the reason they revamp some older content is because there are a lot of people who are constantly bugging them to do so.
    i wonder if onyxia will make a come back in MoP.

  17. #77
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure that Blizzard has published their findings on peoples dislike of Cata mostly stemming from the idea that players that only raided or PvP'd didn't bother doing the insanely massive amount of new stuff in the Updated Old world, which was the point of Cata, and thus decided that Blizzard only released some dungeons and some raids that were too hard for the average wrathbaby.

    Then, of course, they made LFR mode and all of those Titans of Invulnerability then decried that Blizzard only made things for Wrathbabies, not big tough men like them.

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  18. #78
    My view, maybe not correct but still, is that Cata was a 'transitional' expansion, the re-doing of the old world, Transmog, LFR, guild leveling etc. meant it felt, at least looking back on it, like the beginning of the re-tooling of WoW, which has continued in Mists to an extent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    [12:07:45] <+Radux> i think Bibi should post a super passive agressive message in there. like "OH NO LOVE FOR BIBI. I SEE HOW IT IS. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR CREATING THE SITE. CARRY ON."

    OH NO LOVE FOR BIBI. I SEE HOW IT IS. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR CREATING THE SITE. CARRY ON.

  19. #79
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    My main problem with Cata was how fast I ran out of things to do. The first two weeks were amazing, and then I suddenly just found myself sitting in Org with a blank look on my face thinking "Now what?"

    By the end of Cata, I only logged on for raids.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Cata had huge potential, but blizzard decided that instead of giving people lore ingame, they provide the whole Cata-lore through Books; and that was the most stupiest thing that they did.
    Agree with this.

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