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  1. #101
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Casual players were left with virtually no end-game, decisions in Cata pretty much sliced the idea of pugging things in half or more, and most people were left to just make alts or quit. (Lots of people quit.)

    Hardcore players, it'd seem, as well, barely got any content at all either, but they at least had an endgame. 4.3 was a big quick save face, rushed, clearly, to try and stop the sub bleeding and end things on the highest note they possibly could to just get it out of there.

  2. #102
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    They made a lot of cock ups in cata.

    - focused so much on the old world content and updating it that they didn't do anything good for max level content
    - The story took a nose dive and people felt disgruntled by many of the changes thrown in. Things like Deathwing being just a massive plot device, Thrall going down his path of worlds greatest shaman, the moronic antics of Garrosh and the alliance feeling brushed aside.
    - The sudden push to make things like dungeons at max level harder pushed the casual crowds away and only appealed to the hardcore crowd (they admitted this and it was a mistake).
    - Until LFR came into it, people found nothing to d at max level and so left in droves.
    - Some even said the overall theme of the expansion was rushed and unpleasant.
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  3. #103
    Mechagnome Thulyn's Avatar
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    Every fuckin' aspect of Cataclysm was bad...

  4. #104
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Casual players were left with virtually no end-game, decisions in Cata pretty much sliced the idea of pugging things in half or more, and most people were left to just make alts or quit. (Lots of people quit.)

    Hardcore players, it'd seem, as well, barely got any content at all either, but they at least had an endgame. 4.3 was a big quick save face, rushed, clearly, to try and stop the sub bleeding and end things on the highest note they possibly could to just get it out of there.
    quite so. I quit my old guild just after firelands and found without a guild, there was nothing to do.
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  5. #105
    Bloodsail Admiral Luminoth4's Avatar
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    5.1 was rehashed ZA/ZG instead of Firelands, if you were actually a raider of any sort this patch was useless. Gear from normal raids was 359, Heroics 372, and these dungeons 353.

    Uldum being a story revolving around Indiana Jones.

    Abyssal Maw Raid was scrapped

    Firelands and Dragon Soul were pretty short raid Tiers, and in generally considered pretty crap I hear (Apart from Ragnaros and possibly someone else in there)

    Attempted repeat of a year of ICC with DS, and without a Hailon.

    Ret Paladins. Dear God why did I persist through 4.0 - 4.2?

    Also the difficult dungeons and heroics which existed during Cataclysm Beta were nerfed to the ground. When live hit they weren't that bad.

    Not going to lie, it had a few decent things. Transmog, adding LFR for non raiders and new Battlegrounds were welcome. Also the Revamped 1-60 was pretty good, even if it was just a Horde Campaign with the Alliance rolling over. Only problem is a lot of the shipped content and some of the base content seemed to suffer.

    WotLK had the minor screw up that was 3.2. Whilst it was loathed, it had both a raid and a dungeon so something for everyone. Also 3.3 gave us some fantastic heroics. 3.1 was Ulduar. For the Game's Anniversary we got a revamped Raid. Main things I remember of dislike about Wrath was the new Battlegrounds.

    But my favorite thing about Wrath? Mammoth trains in Dalaran xD
    Alliance - Shadowsong

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    Culmination - Nulo - Amissio - Dreadnought

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Hardcore players, it'd seem, as well, barely got any content at all either, but they at least had an endgame.
    I think u will find a very large amount of hardcore players left the game. The evidence of this is that the top guilds are struggling to recruit, Paragon dropping to 10man is a massive indication of the lack of top players still playing Wow.

    It wasnt just the content why they left, they didnt like how endgame raiding had totally changed.

    By putting the focus on 10man raiding and encouraging smaller groups, smaller guilds etc Blizzard managed to lose alot of the top players who were 25man raiders. The 25man raiders were once seen as the top guilds on every realm, they were the prestige of each realm, but when 10man got elevated it managed to break this structure at the same time. The consequently helped to break down every realms community also. New guilds popping up and closing down daily effected every realms community.

  7. #107
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    I will say the only saving grace for the expansion was the introduction of Transmog, the 4.3 heroic dungeons, and the introduction of LFR. It still wasn't enough to keep people for hating the expansion overall, but it helped soften the blow. I found more joy in doing old content and finding old armor sets on my main with transmog in mind then I did actually playing dragonsoul, which itself was a god awful final raid (except the deathwing encounter)
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  8. #108
    Immortal Arbs's Avatar
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    Cataclysm caused the decline.
    I'm neither Pro or Anti Flying, I just have a different opinion on the matter.

  9. #109
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    My main issues with Cataclysm:
    -Terrible villain. Deathwing was the definition of a Saturday-morning cartoon villain. At least the accusations of that against Arthas in Wrath were explained eventually, Deathwing's weren't.
    -Terrible end raid. Dragon Soul was fairly unoriginal, and badly designed, especially for an end-game raid. It also lasted for WAY too long an the percentage of guilds who were able to fully clear heroic 8/8 was extremely high.
    -Weak Alliance storyline. Don't think I need to explain this one.
    -Disconnected 80-85 zones. The only connection between these zones was Deathwing in some form. That's literally it.
    -Blandly designed raid environments. Not talking about the fights themselves, but I found BWD, DS, and even parts of FL very poorly and blandly designed.
    -5.1 introduced 2 dungeons that we had already seen as raids, and one was completely rehashed.
    -Horrid ending. I still say that the end of Dragon Soul was one of the worst endings I've seen in a video game.
    -Too much Thrall. I like Thrall, I think he's a good character. But in Cata he was just way too involved everywhere (best example: 4.2 Thrall questline)
    -Central hub and portals. Everyone camped out in SW/Org 24/7 and just used the portals to get everywhere.
    -Disconnected storylines everywhere. Leveling zones ended in cliffhangers, main characters suddenly disappear, 80-85 zones disconnected.
    -Uldum was a giant Indiana Jones reference.
    -Abyssal Maw raid, War of the Ancients raid, Path of the Titans, all scrapped.
    -Old world revamped, a ton of old content completely removed.
    -
    PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA

  10. #110
    Well for me it was the revamped world that favored Horde story lines over Alliance. I don't care that Alliance lost but how it was presented. The lack of phasing to show even the smallest Alliance victory. Alliance constantly getting shafted in seeing story lines or the end of story lines. To top it all off they bring back Malfurian, which is supposed to be the most powerful mortal, make him work with Horde even though he shouldn't and make him take a back seat to over exposed green Jesus.

  11. #111
    Warchief Byniri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminoth4 View Post
    But my favorite thing about Wrath? Mammoth trains in Dalaran xD
    I miss these so much.
    PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA

  12. #112
    Stood in the Fire
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    I think Cataclysm was amazing for the leveling aspect of the game. Old world content was horribly out of date, and they'd learned a lot of ways to make it more entertaining since then. I also enjoyed how they fixed healing (spamming flash heal all day wasn't fun for me). However, I remember a lot of people felt like the barrier for entry on heroics was too high.

    They'd probably have been better off breaking up heroics into a couple categories at release to prevent fresh 85s from getting heroics like Grim Batol. Heroic Shadowfang Keep and Deadmines were really easy for most groups, but when you got Grim Batol you could be sure there would be at least a couple people taking the deserter buff right away (luckily I was a tank/healer usually, so the wait wasn't long to get replacements).

    Overall, I think they wanted to offer more challenge outside of raiding, but instead of doing something like Challenge Dungeons they tried putting it in the normal progression path and it upset some players.

  13. #113
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    I dont care how many times thye redo something, old content is old. I had no fun at all in cata only good thing was that you could level 80-85 in like 8 hours tops. Which was its only saving grace over MOP which takes for fucking ever.

  14. #114
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    I think u will find a very large amount of hardcore players left the game. The evidence of this is that the top guilds are struggling to recruit, Paragon dropping to 10man is a massive indication of the lack of top players still playing Wow.

    It wasnt just the content why they left, they didnt like how endgame raiding had totally changed.

    By putting the focus on 10man raiding and encouraging smaller groups, smaller guilds etc Blizzard managed to lose alot of the top players who were 25man raiders. The 25man raiders were once seen as the top guilds on every realm, they were the prestige of each realm, but when 10man got elevated it managed to break this structure at the same time. The consequently helped to break down every realms community also. New guilds popping up and closing down daily effected every realms community.
    The 10/25 normalization also pretty much destroyed pugging as we knew it. The difficulty in getting a successful pug together shot through the roof, and it became almost entirely the playfield of dedicated raiders only, whereas in WOTLK, it was fairly easy for a non-raider who wanted to just try something out, to get into a pug if they at least had the gear and had shit set up right.

    Frankly, I'm super confused as to if Blizzard even really knew what the hell it even wanted to do with Cata, and who the hell were they listening to :x

  15. #115
    Warchief Byniri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I dont care how many times thye redo something, old content is old. I had no fun at all in cata only good thing was that you could level 80-85 in like 8 hours tops. Which was its only saving grace over MOP which takes for fucking ever.
    Thankfully this is getting nerfed in 5.3.

    I might actually level my other 2 characters to 90.
    PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA

  16. #116
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarl Balgruuf View Post
    My main issues with Cataclysm:
    -Terrible villain. Deathwing was the definition of a Saturday-morning cartoon villain. At least the accusations of that against Arthas in Wrath were explained eventually, Deathwing's weren't.
    -Terrible end raid. Dragon Soul was fairly unoriginal, and badly designed, especially for an end-game raid. It also lasted for WAY too long an the percentage of guilds who were able to fully clear heroic 8/8 was extremely high.
    -Weak Alliance storyline. Don't think I need to explain this one.
    -Disconnected 80-85 zones. The only connection between these zones was Deathwing in some form. That's literally it.
    -Blandly designed raid environments. Not talking about the fights themselves, but I found BWD, DS, and even parts of FL very poorly and blandly designed.
    -5.1 introduced 2 dungeons that we had already seen as raids, and one was completely rehashed.
    -Horrid ending. I still say that the end of Dragon Soul was one of the worst endings I've seen in a video game.
    -Too much Thrall. I like Thrall, I think he's a good character. But in Cata he was just way too involved everywhere (best example: 4.2 Thrall questline)
    -Central hub and portals. Everyone camped out in SW/Org 24/7 and just used the portals to get everywhere.
    -Disconnected storylines everywhere. Leveling zones ended in cliffhangers, main characters suddenly disappear, 80-85 zones disconnected.
    -Uldum was a giant Indiana Jones reference.
    -Abyssal Maw raid, War of the Ancients raid, Path of the Titans, all scrapped.
    -Old world revamped, a ton of old content completely removed.
    -
    God, I so agree about that terrible ending, if you mean the actual video ending. It was like... That's it? It's basically this, but in WoW video form: http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmenta...usters_end.png

  17. #117
    Gotta say Cataclysm had good moments and bad moments, like any other expansion. But when the moments were bad, then damn, rock bottom. Yep, I'm talking about DS.

    The pros of Cataclysm? Well, revamping the entire Azeroth was AWESOME. This change was seriously needed, and when Blizzard decided to finally do it, they nailed it. I can feel safe by saying my top 3 "best quests in WoW" are from revamped Azeroth. Top 3 best questlines as well. I also really loved the starting set of dungeons (being difficult and so on), first two tiers of raiding (Ragnaros is one of the coolest fights ever) and two quite nice BGs.

    DS is the sole reason this expansion is considered a failure. Okay, patch 5.1 wasn't fun, but the troll instances were "meh", not below that. Same about 4.3 dungeons - it's hard to REALLY hate them, they were just boring and became more and more when it was the only good source of valors. I also consider transmog a bad idea, even tho I'm one of the biggest user of that - but I still prefered times when you could measure somebodys awesomeness just by one glance. DS was the rock bottom of raiding, and such a scar on a not-so-bad expansion, that it shadows the whole thing.

  18. #118
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    Most of the time people tend to focus and remember only the bad things of something thus making of Cata the least liked expansion atm.

    In the future it wont be like that anymore.
    You're expecting Blizz to put out something worse?

    (MoP hasn't been my cup of tea, but it's a far superior product to Cata - even with the talent stumps.)

  19. #119
    DS worst raid ever and lot of weeks to farm it, fireland and ragnaros would had been a much better final boss/raid of the expansion

  20. #120
    Firelands was an awful raid apart from a few fights
    DS was awful from start to finish (that deathwing fight..really??)
    Warlocks became fucking annoying to play

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