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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    The reward was that if you had higher rating you would get more cap and it would have mattered.
    With this system you can cap at 1300 rating and have the very same gear than someone who would cap at 2200 rating.
    And the million dollar question is why would anyone bother to get rating for?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 07:20 AM ----------



    It does take effort to raise your cap so you progress fast.
    I feel like my iq drops everytime I cap in rbgs and get a higher cap than I can possibly get in arena. I also felt retarded last season when I bought mop halfways through the season and was stuck with shit gear for 5 months, while the pve heros had full 491.

    Rating happens by itself, the real million dollar question is why would anyone pvp for gear?
    Last edited by Helltrixz; 2013-05-02 at 04:45 AM.

  2. #82
    I don't understand why people wouldnt want to get the crafted PvP gear first when starting from scratch. Heck My new PvP toon is only 76 and I've already got my hands on 5/8 parts of the Crafted Dreadful Gladiator's Vestments ready to go! =D I'll probably still get my ass handed to me repeatedly while I get honor and eventually conquest gear and learn how to PvP lol)

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    I feel like my iq drops everytime I cap in rbgs and get a higher cap than I can possibly get in arena. I also felt retarded last season when I bought mop halfways through the season and was stuck with shit gear for 5 months, while the pve heros had full 491.

    Rating happens by itself, the real million dollar question is why would anyone pvp for gear?
    People play (and pvp) for gear because it is a sense of progression in pretty much every rpg I have played in the last 15-20 years. I understant there are fotm rerollers which I have no sympathy for. I agree that late starters should have a means to catch up but since they are a minority there shouldn't be so drastic changes that penalise the very essence of progression.

    I will repeat I have a gut feeling that PVP activity will drop after getting BIS gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  4. #84
    Which brings me back to:
    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    I'm so tired of the "cap lolrbgs every week/ilvl" based so-called progression. That's not progression? It the same fucking gear with a different prefix.
    I don't understand what part of it is "progression". Is it not the same if your char has 3000 hp and hits for 300 or if your char has 300000 hp and hits for 30000? Except that the later looks dumb.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    You know, editing the name of someone in order to insult them is low, very low. I was for a moment tempted to do the same but instead I'm just going to laugh at you trying to claim the moral high ground in any further discussion.
    You're right, but I'm glad you took the high ground instead of stooping to my level.

    What you are doing is pretty pathethic.
    'm not quite sure why a PvE troll like you thinks he has any kind of right to call ANYONE out on anything
    Or maybe not.

    But let's not let that derail us here, because you actually said something pretty useful here. You keep complaining that I don't use math, so let's use some math, but first let me point out a few of your problems.

    For one, you are treating all iLevels of gears as equal, but that's not true. PvE and PvP have different stat priorities for almost every class. For example, any sort of DPS is going to require a lot more hit rating for PvE than they will PvP (for example, for casters its 2005 needed for PvP v. 5100 Hit Rating needed for PvE), therefore any piece of PvE Gear with Hit Rating is a waste. Now, you might argue that they'll go reforge that hit, and they might, but why in the real world would they? Why would anyone reforge the hit for some World PvP and be caught without their hit rating when they get to their raid? Stamina is another stat that is more prevalent on PvE gear, yet it's not very high priority in PvP gear. Sure, you want some, but nobody gems for Stamina, it's the lowest of the priority.

    So let's look at Caster Staves at 522, since you say these are easy to get, and we'll even upgrade it twice (http://www.wowhead.com/item=94749).

    The main stats are as follows:

    +2338 Stamina
    +1478 Intellect
    +921 Hit (2.71% @ L90)
    +1036 Haste (2.44% @ L90)
    +8925 Spell Power
    + Blue socket with +60 Int bonus

    The 498 Tyranical Staff (0/2 upgrade) is this:

    +1869 Stamina
    +1246 Intellect
    +831 Critical Strike (1.39% @ L90)
    +7139 Spell Power
    +6195 PvP Power (23.38% @ L90)
    +831 PvP Resilience (2.68% @ L90)

    We can throw out the PvP Resilience since it's going away, also what we know about the PTR is that geared up players will have about 33% PvP power with the new changes, which gives us something like :

    +1869 Stamina
    +1246 Intellect
    +831 Critical Strike (1.39% @ L90)
    +7139 Spell Power + 2380 = 9518

    I know it's probably not accurate to just up the Spell Power by a third, but really it's the easiest way to represent it in a single line. The way PvP Power works is it gives you the multiplier first, then Resistance takes over and scales back the damage, so it's as good as any way to show it.

    Let's look at the numbers. The fully upgraded, "easy" to get staff gives a caster more some more STA (not important) and INT (important), a bunch of hit (completely waste of iLevel since any caster will already be at the 6% on their other items), Haste at the expensive of Crit (debatable based on class if that's a good or a bad thing) and in less damage (by about 7% which is bad).

    If you like Haste over Crit, and damage isn't important to you as a caster, then the fully upgraded 522 might have the slight edge over the PvP Tyrannical weapon for Duels and World PvP. But looking at that fully upgraded weapon and saying it's a game changer is ridiculous. Everyone hates Hunters, so let's see what the deal with their weapons are. In ToT there are actually three Ranged weapon drops, although one isn't off a boss, so let's ignore that one for now.

    The two have the following stats (522, fully upgraded http://www.wowhead.com/item=94769 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=94963) which gives us the following:

    11955 - 22203 / Speed 3.00
    (5693.0 damage per second)
    +1558 Agility
    +2258 Stamina
    +973 Hit (2.86% @ L90)
    +1015 Haste (2.39% @ L90)

    and

    11955 - 22203 / Speed 3.00
    (5693.0 damage per second)
    +1478 Agility
    +2338 Stamina
    +947 Hit (2.79% @ L90)
    +1030 Expertise (3.03 @ L90)

    v. the 498 Tyrannical (I've removed the Resilience)

    10925 - 16388 / Speed 3.00
    (4552.2 damage per second)
    +1246 Agility
    +1869 Stamina
    +831 Critical Strike (1.39% @ L90)
    +6195 PvP Power (23.38% @ L90)

    So what do we have here? Well, the PvE Weapons have wasted Hit or Hit + Expertise, a lot of it, and the 33% damage boost clearly makes the 498 PvP Weapon superior to the PvE one (especially since that is is where most of the PvP Power comes from).

    Of course, this is just simply comparing weapons, so you will have problems with it. Again, in World PvP there will definitely be situations where individual pieces of PvE gear will be better than PvP gear, but you have to remember that it's also unlikely that the stats will be ideal for PvP, instead DPS will have way to much Hit and Expertise, or they will have stats that have a low priority. Plus, with burst nerfed on the PTR, damage might be at a premium and I've shown that these players will hit for less.

    There's some math for you, plus some sound logic about Stat Priorities. Now, if you want to start talking 541 2/2 gear, well that's a different story, but just checking out WoW Progress, there aren't a lot of guilds with Heroic 25 ToT on Farm yet, so I think we're pretty safe to not worry about lots of people running around in that gear in World PvP for now.
    Last edited by Siddown; 2013-05-02 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Kipling View Post
    I don't understand why people wouldnt want to get the crafted PvP gear first when starting from scratch. Heck My new PvP toon is only 76 and I've already got my hands on 5/8 parts of the Crafted Dreadful Gladiator's Vestments ready to go! =D I'll probably still get my ass handed to me repeatedly while I get honor and eventually conquest gear and learn how to PvP lol)
    Because Dreadful is crap. You could just as well play naked.

    My advice: Do PvP dailies on the Isle of Thunder, run hc dungeons, kill PvP rares in Krasarang and get full Malev. Everything below Malev is a waste of time for you and your team.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 02:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Siddown View Post
    [...]
    The two have the following stats (522, fully upgraded http://www.wowhead.com/item=94769) which gives us the following:

    11955 - 22203 / Speed 3.00
    (5693.0 damage per second)
    +1558 Agility
    +2258 Stamina
    +973 Hit (2.86% @ L90)
    +1015 Haste (2.39% @ L90)

    v. the 498 Tyrannical (I've removed the Resilience)

    10925 - 16388 / Speed 3.00
    (4552.2 damage per second)
    +1246 Agility
    +1869 Stamina
    +831 Critical Strike (1.39% @ L90)
    +6195 PvP Power (23.38% @ L90)

    So what do we have here? Well, the PvE Weapons have wasted Hit or Hit + Expertise, a lot of it, and the 33% damage boost clearly makes the 498 PvP Weapon superior to the PvE one (especially since that is is where most of the PvP Power comes from).
    Your numbers are wrong and you can´t calculate an isolated item.
    6195 PvP Power with 1% for 400 rating gives a multiplier of 1,155 to all your dmg. Now do the math and tell us the point where this outweights ordinary dmg stats.
    Perhaps you might want to sim PvP dps for a char in a) complete 522 b) 522 with 498 PvP weapon c) 496 PvP with 522 weapon and d) 496 PvP + 498 weapon?

    I didn´t calculate it myself, but from first view the better stats and 20% more weapon dps seem quite strong compared to a multiplier of 1,155 for all your dps.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Peng View Post
    Your numbers are wrong and you can´t calculate an isolated item.
    6195 PvP Power with 1% for 400 rating gives a multiplier of 1,155 to all your dmg. Now do the math and tell us the point where this outweights ordinary dmg stats.
    Perhaps you might want to sim PvP dps for a char in a) complete 522 b) 522 with 498 PvP weapon c) 496 PvP with 522 weapon and d) 496 PvP + 498 weapon?

    I didn´t calculate it myself, but from first view the better stats and 20% more weapon dps seem quite strong compared to a multiplier of 1,155 for all your dps.
    That is a very good point, I was just using the flat 33% as seen in the PTR for PvP Power. But a weapon does have about 1/2 a Player's PvP Power, so if someone just took the weapon, they'd have a ~17% increase in PvP damage v. 33%. Frankly with so many varations of gear, it's hard to tell. I chose the weapon because breaking down individual pieces like a bracer isn't likely to show anything important. Also, let's face it, nobody is saying "that guy killed me because of those PvE bracers", in the past it's always been about PvE Weapons and Trinkets.

    To simplify it, if a player only swapped the weapons, it's be PvE weapon + 17% PvP Power damage (from other gear) v. PvP Weapons + 33% damage.

    Do the stats from the 522 2/2 level make up for 16% damage? It might, but I imagine it'd be a wash. At 541 2/2, PvE will win (I never said otherwise), but due to the extra non-essential stats (Hit/Expertise/Stam/Low Priority) how much will it win by? Also, we're talking about 541 which is 25 man Heroic, not your average every day fair that people are going to be running around with.

    Despite what Deleth believes, I spend a lot of time PvP-ing on the IoT, yet I never expect it to be fair. A few of us will roll groups 2 or even 3 times our size because they aren't ready for it, but on a server like ours were my faction is vastly out numbered, eventually a huge group will wipe us out if they band together. We don't get mad about it because how can you? When 10+ players (plus mobs) take out 3, we consider it a victory.

    In 5.3, if a group in nothing but PvE gear is rolling to kill Nalak and they catch me a few friends on the way, we're going to die in exactly the same amount of time that we would in 5.2. Likewise, if we catch a group not paying attention, they'll last a little bit longer, but having a few 522 pieces won't make or break the battle...if anything the extra resilience will, but if they can't coordinate they'll go down just as easily as they did before.

    EDIT: Actually, checking full Tyrannical gear, a player gets ~6200 PvP Power from weapons and ~7100 from all the other gear combined, so ditching a weapon removed 46% of someone's PvP Power so the split is more like 18% v. 33%, not 17%, but I think that's close enough.
    Last edited by Siddown; 2013-05-02 at 02:57 PM.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    so you have played and geared your toon-now you have a slight edge over a new player.whats the problem?you said it yourself that you GEARED your own toon up.
    Slight edge. Lol yeh.. No. The disparity is still huge, particularly on weapons.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by MiLLeR View Post
    Slight edge. Lol yeh.. No. The disparity is still huge, particularly on weapons.
    2 days of runing bgs and you can have a full set of honor gear,boy thats sure hard.lets be real here,rating requirements on gear are gone,so play your toon and ge tthe same gear as reckful .cant get easier then that.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    The reward was that if you had higher rating you would get more cap and it would have mattered.
    With this system you can cap at 1300 rating and have the very same gear than someone who would cap at 2200 rating.
    And the million dollar question is why would anyone bother to get rating for?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 07:20 AM ----------



    It does take effort to raise your cap so you progress fast.
    Honestly I absolutely loved the WotLK/tBC system where EVERY piece of relevant PvP loot necessated a certain rating; which goes completely against what I've been saying here.

    But why have I been going against my own personal wishes? Because that's the way the game's been heading. Going back to WotLK/tBC type PvP gearing is only going to hurt the game MAJORLY. Players are used to a certain style of play and going back to an older style is going to piss a lot of people off like it did with heroics in the beginning of Cataclysm and like it has/will with the return of raid tiering in MoP.

    Blizzard is moving forward for better or for worse. All we can do is ensure that the movement forward is more to our liking without shouting at Blizzard to "go back to the good old days". And making the entrance into PvP easier/quicker than ever is the best way to go about it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 08:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    2 days of runing bgs and you can have a full set of honor gear,boy thats sure hard.lets be real here,rating requirements on gear are gone,so play your toon and ge tthe same gear as reckful .cant get easier then that.
    Honor gear is utterly useless. A full malevolent geared player will get absolutely annihilated by a player of equal or even lesser skill in full tyrannical gear. And this late into the season if you're trying to conquest cap, you'll be facing mostly tyrannical geared players.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-05-02 at 08:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Honestly I absolutely loved the WotLK/tBC system where EVERY piece of relevant PvP loot necessated a certain rating; which goes completely against what I've been saying here.
    There were no ratings requirements on arena gear in S1 and S2, and only on shoulders in S3.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    There were no ratings requirements on arena gear in S1 and S2, and only on shoulders in S3.
    Weapons required rating as of S3 also...j/k Stunherald.

    The weapons were at 1800 or 1850, shoulders at 2k IIRC.

  13. #93
    few thousand gold for a full crafted set? I would love to know what server you're on. on my server just a month ago it was like 1k for a single piece of crafted dreadful leather gear. now it's like 400g each.

    then you gotta consider that being a pvper, you don't really make much gold. I jump on, pvp, and that's it nowadays, so I don't have hardly any kind of income, because you can't get gold from doing battlegrounds. I make enough to gem/enchant any upgrades and that's it.

    then look at how long it takes you to get a full set. say a battleground win nets you 500 honor, average, just for the purpose of simplicity. it will take about 20,000 honor or so to get a full set of malevolent. that's 40 battlegrounds you have to win, lets say an average of 20 minutes per bg, that equates to 800 minutes, or 12 hours and 40 minutes of grinding. meanwhile, until you get your 7th or 8th piece, including weapon (8th or 9th piece if you dual-wield) you're going to be doing trashy damage, dying within seconds, possibly ok healing, and won't be able to fc for anything. beyond that it gets better.

    so, yes, there is a gear gap. expecting someone to "buy crafted" is as bad of an excuse as "buy crafted epics to get into ToT normal", it's just not that easy. then you have to think, a full 458 dreadful set is going to do awful in arenas vs full malev or even half+ tyrannical sets.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    There were no ratings requirements on arena gear in S1 and S2, and only on shoulders in S3.
    Guess I meant WotLK then =/ I do think the latter seasons of WotLK were the golden age for PvP in WoW.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddown View Post
    I have no idea who Flaks is, but my limited time on the forums I'm quite familiar with Deleth and his/her "arguments". He creates strawmans for himself involved around "prove" that the devs are "liars" and rudely dismisses anyone who doesn't share his opinion on the subject as being "wrong". Take this thread for example, it is entirely about gearing up someone in PvP gear, but he wants to bring it back to scaling gear for PvE which is not what it's remotely about. His argument is completely baseless, yet he (and you apparently) get to say that anyone who disagrees with him is wrong. It's silly to be honest. It's like if I made a value judgement about who the best baseball player of all time is, or what's the best movie of 2012, and shouted down anyone who has a different opinion.

    The developers have made it quiet clear that they want to want to make it much easier to get into PvP, and right now that is very difficult for two sets of players 1) New 90s or 2) Established 90s with only PvE gear. If you dispute this (as it appears you are doing), then you either haven't been listening to what they've been saying or have chosen to completely ignore it. You ignoring what the devs have been saying doesn't "prove" that Deleth is right or Flaks is wrong.

    In 5.3 they are attempting to solve this problem by giving everyone a much higher base defense, but by doing so they realized that PvE gear would be ridiculously overpowered, so they added the iLevel scaling to pull it back and they upped the amount of PvP power on gear but lowered it's relative effectiveness. So you need more PvP Power to do damage which effectively nerfs PvP Power Gems which eliminates (or greatly reduces) the possibility of some PvE geared player gemming with PvP Power and being effective.

    What Deleth doesn't seem to get is PvE is a completely different type of game, where as gear progress has been shown to be important to a vast majority of the player base, but they have also tried the same thing with Challenge Mode and frankly it just hasn't been that successful. Players in PvE want gear progression, the overwhelming majority of players don't want it for PvP. Deleth comparing that to Pet Battles is not only silly, it's inaccurate because Pet Battles are all about progression, the complete opposite.

    In PvP, despite a small minority, most players have expressed that they are happy with this change for the very reasons Flaks has stated. Again, if you choose to not believe that, that's fine, but you won't get much traction since while people might not be thrill with how Blizzard is going about 5.3, they are okay with the why they are doing it.
    1. That's prejudice, son. I've disagreed vehemently with some people here on MMO-Champion in one thread, and just as strongly agreed with them in others. Sure, when I'm first reading their other posts I'll be skeptical, but if they make a good point, there's no reason to disagree with them just because I thought they were wrong in another thread, on another subject.

    2. His argument is that 5.3 changes to make PvE gear more competitive in PvP is baseless? Why, then, did you post quotes from Blizzard saying that was exactly their design intention? Further suggestion that you don't disagree on a point of fact or principle, you're just disagreeing with him because he's Deleth (though, to be fair, you do seem to also be slavering over a vested interest; a desire to be more competitive in PvP as a PvE player without having to put in the time that PvP players do).

    3. I call bullshit on the "difficulty" of getting into PvP. Some people's egos just can't handle being ground into dust when they're being killed over and over again because they have crap gear. Personally, until I have half-way decent gear for PvP, I focus less on trying to kill other players and more on trying to sabotage the other team's efforts, applying as many debuffs as I can, throwing out CC, using defensive cooldowns to last just a little bit longer while I throw myself at them so they focus on me rather than the geared player who is then able to take them out. It's not difficult, at worst it can be slightly tedious to begin with, but rate of gear acquisition and performance in PvP improves exponentially as you get more pieces.

    Those who die a handful of times in their first BG, then spit the dummy and throw their toys out of the pram because "PvP is too hard, PvP gear is OP" shouldn't be PvPing, because their problem is not gear-related.

    4. I don't see what the point of highlighting the differences between PvE and PvP gear objectives are, relative to a discussion about making PvE gear more competitive in PvP. Apart from being comprehensively wrong - obtaining new gear is rewarding for PvPers - what does this have to do with your attempts to justify their decision to make PvE gear more viable in PvP?

    And Deleth's comparison was completely appropriate, you just didn't understand it. The comparison to Pet Battles suggests that Blizzard are seeking to turn PvP from being a huge part of the game in its own right, into a time sink for PvE players. The same comparison could be made to Archaeology, or collecting mounts, or farming for transmog gear. That might be an unreasonable suggestion if all they were doing was making it even easier for PvE players to gear up for PvP than it already is - JP->Honor conversion and random battlegrounds make gearing up a trifle - but they're not doing that, they're directly and indirectly nerfing our gear so that you suck less.

    That's all for now, but I do eagerly await your next impotent, arm-flailing assault on reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's nothing wrong with Keynesian theory.

  16. #96
    No, Deleth's argument is not appropriate. Because this "QQ Blizzard is catering wholly to the PvE players and my life as a PvP'er sucks" is honestly bogus. You know why it's bogus? Because the FIRST CHANGES TO PVP GEAR MADE IN MOP WERE TO ENSURE THAT PVP PLAYERS HAD AN EASIER TIME TRANSITIONING INTO PVE. I am of course speaking of PvP stats being completely removed from the ilvl conversion.

    Doing the vice versa only makes sense and should have happened a while ago; and not only to make it easier for PvE'ers to get into PvP but to get ALL players to have an easier time to get into PvP. Why you folks continue to stick to this archaic notion of "I MUST WORK FOR EVERYTHING EVEN IN A GAME AND EVEN IF MOST OTHERS DON'T LIKE IT" I'll never understand. I'm just content knowing Blizzard is no longer catering to your whims; and yes, they were catering to your whims as was shown in Cataclysm with the heroics.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-05-02 at 11:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  17. #97
    Holy fuck, meathead shows up and the thread gets so much harder to read.

    PvP should be about besting your opponent, not about who is wearing what. Gear advantages undermine the competitive nature of it, in my opinion.
    Just calm down.
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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    Holy fuck, meathead shows up and the thread gets so much harder to read.

    PvP should be about besting your opponent, not about who is wearing what. Gear advantages undermine the competitive nature of it, in my opinion.
    PVP should be about besting your opponent, not about which class is better. Class advantages undermine the competitive nature of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    No, Deleth's argument is not appropriate. Because this "QQ Blizzard is catering wholly to the PvE players and my life as a PvP'er sucks" is honestly bogus. You know why it's bogus? Because the FIRST CHANGES TO PVP GEAR MADE IN MOP WERE TO ENSURE THAT PVP PLAYERS HAD AN EASIER TIME TRANSITIONING INTO PVE. I am of course speaking of PvP stats being completely removed from the ilvl conversion.

    Doing the vice versa only makes sense and should have happened a while ago; and not only to make it easier for PvE'ers to get into PvP but to get ALL players to have an easier time to get into PvP. Why you folks continue to stick to this archaic notion of "I MUST WORK FOR EVERYTHING EVEN IN A GAME AND EVEN IF MOST OTHERS DON'T LIKE IT" I'll never understand. I'm just content knowing Blizzard is no longer catering to your whims; and yes, they were catering to your whims as was shown in Cataclysm with the heroics.
    You must be joking. There's absolutely no way you could be serious about that first point. Have you ever tried taking PvP gear into even 5-man heroics? Utter garbage. And how many PvPers are actually interested in transitioning to PvE? Content is vastly simpler and less dynamic than PvP play, all you have to do is memorise a few fights and that's it. I'd be too afraid that the lazy gameplay style would impact my PvPing.

    What you don't seem to have grasped from my post is that it is already incredibly easy to get into PvP. If you don't like to die all the time, why not just run 5-mans to get JP, then convert that to honor and buy full Malev without ever stepping into a BG? Anyone complaining that PvP is too hard to get into does not have a leg to stand on, what they're doing now is lowering the bar from "minimal requirement" to "absolutely no requirement". It's pathetic, and those of you clamouring for it are similarly pathetic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's nothing wrong with Keynesian theory.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    Have you ever tried taking PvP gear into even 5-man heroics? Utter garbage.
    This is nonsense on stilts. PvP gear is perfectly fine in heroic 5 mans (unless you're a tank).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

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