Thread: Heirloom PvP

  1. #1

    Exclamation Heirloom PvP

    I'm sure that I am not the only poor soul, who has decided to level a new character without heirloom "Bind on Account Weapons", and have ventured into a Battleground at levels 10+. It is insane! I know that PvP should not really matter in the lower levels, but many people actually enjoy it while leveling. Now, people who don't have heirlooms, or don't want to get heirlooms for that matter, get utterly destroyed be these "tricked-out" people in these low level battlegrounds with nearly every slot equipped with a heirloom item. It makes low-level PvP just unenjoyable and frankly, not possible. I have a few solutions to this problem:

    1. Make heirlooms not-equip-able in Battlegrounds. Now, while this would take away the overpowered lolumad 1 shotting, it would also take away the desired experiance increase that the heirlooms provide. So this is not the best solution.

    2. Nerf heirlooms in general. I feel like this would be the best option. This is because heirlooms are overpowered as is, in both PvP and PvE. Why not make the heirlooms the equivalent to, say, green-level items. This way, they can be used constantly throughout leveling, provide the experience boost, but not be TOO overpowered. Also, people who have "blue-level" items would have slightly better stats due to the fact that their gear is harder to obtain and more rare.


    Just some thoughts. What do you guys think, I would love to hear what other players think because to be honest, I'm tired of getting lolfacerolled in lower-level battlegrounds!
    "Use the force harry." -Gandalf

  2. #2
    Heirlooms were intended to be a bit overpowered so you don't have to worry about gear during leveling. And BG is one of leveling options.

    What next in your opinion? Nerf rbg/arena gear because you can't compete in leveling greens? Nerf ToT because you can't kill even trash in leveling greens?

    No, not everything should be tuned for leveling/fresh-dinged characters. And just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad or wrong.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Serissa View Post
    Heirlooms were intended to be a bit overpowered so you don't have to worry about gear during leveling. And BG is one of leveling options.

    What next in your opinion? Nerf rbg/arena gear because you can't compete in leveling greens? Nerf ToT because you can't kill even trash in leveling greens?

    No, not everything should be tuned for leveling/fresh-dinged characters. And just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad or wrong.
    Well, if I was a new player and decided to try out this "cool, new feature" I unlocked at level 10 called Battlegrounds, zone in, and get facerolled. I would stay away from that for a long time because it is just un-enjoyable.

    You don't need to make assumptions about what else I think as well... I actually think the opposite of nerfing things because they are "too hard". RBGs/Arena/Raiding are activities in the game that no one should be entitled to and should be able to see while it's current content. Thats crazy. All I'm saying is that heirlooms should be mid-level so you don't have to worry about gear while leveling, but not be insanely overpowered to the point where you click on something and it is auto-dead...
    "Use the force harry." -Gandalf

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    All I'm saying is that heirlooms should be mid-level so you don't have to worry about gear while leveling, but not be insanely overpowered to the point where you click on something and it is auto-dead...
    Characters can still twink with top level blues for their level which are is all the Heirlooms are equivalent too, you do realize the next logical step is to nerf all Dungeon drops because it wouldn't be fair for players to gera up with Blues, right?

    I'm not sure why you wouldn't just suggest a middle ground, have one BG for those with Heirlooms, and one for those without. Probably a bit of a pain to code because of people trying to get around the system (stashing Heirlooms in the bank before queuing then getting them out after the queue pops, etc.), but it's a far more "fair" suggestion than what you are proposing.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddown View Post
    I'm not sure why you wouldn't just suggest a middle ground, have one BG for those with Heirlooms, and one for those without.
    That would just increase queue time and make a ton of work for them to do. Wouldn't it be easier to make them quest green/blue level instead of dungeon blue level? Because that way, people who get the dungeon blues will have a little(not drastic) advantage, and people who have greens will be on par.
    "Use the force harry." -Gandalf

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    That would just increase queue time and make a ton of work for them to do. Wouldn't it be easier to make them quest green/blue level instead of dungeon blue level? Because that way, people who get the dungeon blues will have a little(not drastic) advantage, and people who have greens will be on par.
    Maybe, that or it could be that more people would BG who don't have heirlooms because they won't get rolled? But then again, what if they don't and you just punished all those people who spent 3500+ gold and farmed up honor/justice to buy their BoAs because one person doesn't like low level BGs. That doesn't seem all that fair, does it?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddown View Post
    But then again, what if they don't and you just punished all those people who spent 3500+ gold and farmed up honor/justice to buy their BoAs because one person doesn't like low level BGs.
    They're money would still be well spent due to the fact that they get the experience gain, which is the main purpose of the heirlooms. They just would not be overkill.
    "Use the force harry." -Gandalf

  8. #8
    Dumbest. Ideas. Ever. You make it sound like it's completely one-sided - your team has zero BoAs, and the opposing team is completely decked out in them. If that's the case on your BG, I'd suggest transferring or stop caring about low-level BGs that you level out of in less than an hour per bracket until about 50. BoAs are available to both factions, and to anyone who takes the time to farm the JP/HP required to purchase them.

    Does it give them an advantage? Of course it does. Considering how much those stupid items cost, I'd certainly HOPE so. Besides, BoAs become less of an advantage the higher up you get. They are equivalent to top-ilevel blues of similar level, so if you bothered to get better gear, you would at least have a decent chance of killing them. I mean, you're basically complaining that leveling gear doesn't stand a chance against people who take the time to deck their chars out...duh? What do you think happens at level cap? People in leveling gear enter BGs against people that have been capped longer, have better gear, and have been doing this longer than you. You are going to get facerolled at the top, not just the bottom.

    It's bad enough that people like you cried enough to make Blizzard separate twinks from the rest of the BGs, now you want to remove Heirlooms too? Please dude, for the sake of everyone, keep these sorts of dumb ideas to yourself, or go find a game that is more suited to your playstyle. Maybe WoW just isn't your type of game?
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    It's bad enough that people like you cried enough to make Blizzard separate twinks from the rest of the BGs, now you want to remove Heirlooms too? Please dude, for the sake of everyone, keep these sorts of dumb ideas to yourself, or go find a game that is more suited to your playstyle. Maybe WoW just isn't your type of game?
    People like me? Kid, all I'm saying is that heirlooms should be less powerful. THATS IT!

    By the way, my ideas sure are all "sorts" of dumb...
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    keep these sorts of dumb ideas to yourself
    And you're calling me dumb, too much irony...
    "Use the force harry." -Gandalf

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Hanto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    Well, if I was a new player and decided to try out this "cool, new feature" I unlocked at level 10 called Battlegrounds, zone in, and get facerolled. I would stay away from that for a long time because it is just un-enjoyable.
    All the same. If you're a new player that just hit 90, you're in full leveling greens/blues and you get curb stomped in dungeons, scenarios or raids (for whatever reason you'd be allowed in a raid), you'd find that un-enjoyable as well. Bashing available content because you can't compete in it isn't any fault of the game's design. Get better, go through the steps to get better, and everything will fall in to place.

    Also, to be fair, if I choose to play in BGs at low levels and I have no BoA gear (new server for instance), I will farm available dungeons for like-minded gear and still be competitive. BoA gear is not needed to be efficient at low level BGs, it's simply the easy route to skip the blue farming.

    EDIT: Also, low level blues are available from PvP vendors and they're pretty decent most of the time. If you're a new player and you don't want to get crushed, you gotta work to achieve it. Not everything should be handed to you on a silver platter.
    Last edited by Hanto; 2013-05-03 at 05:18 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    They're money would still be well spent due to the fact that they get the experience gain, which is the main purpose of the heirlooms. They just would not be overkill.
    except BoA's, for the most part, don't increase experience gain in bg's as far as I'm aware. most of them, if not all, simply increase experience gained from killing monsters and turning in quests. in pvp you don't get experience for defeating another player, rather for when your team caps a flag, defends, a base, wins, etc etc etc.

    I have a few toons floating around, in the 50's, in the 60's, without heirlooms. on my 61 ret paladin I went into warsong gulch and dominated the opposing team, no heirlooms, just me, my pvp trinket, some decent gear from 60 raids (which really isn't even as good as the outlands dungoen gear that most people will be decked out in, or BoA's), and a whole lotta ally tryin to take me down.

    I'm not sure why you wouldn't just suggest a middle ground, have one BG for those with Heirlooms, and one for those without.
    worst idea since the seperation of xp-on and xp-off battlegrounds. queue times while levelling are already crap, imagine having to find 10-15, or more, other people with at least one piece of heirloom gear, no heirloom gear, or whatever. might as well seperate people at 90, those who have pve gear, those who have malevolent gear, and those with at least 1 piece of tyrannical.

    Well, if I was a new player and decided to try out this "cool, new feature" I unlocked at level 10 called Battlegrounds, zone in, and get facerolled. I would stay away from that for a long time because it is just un-enjoyable.
    I started 4 years ago, April 15 2009. I remember it took me about 2 weeks to get to level 10 just because I was exploring so much and going so slow. I hopped into a battleground. This was back when the bracket was level 10 - level 19. I was level 10. This was also before bg's gave you experience, so know who was in that bg? Tons and TONS of twinks. I mean half the enemy team was twinks. I was getting rolled over. My team had 1 twink, I remember it was a rogue who just beasted the enemy team. It was inspiring. I wanted to be good like that rogue, so I kept doing pvp, and learning it. So, no, just because you get "facerolled" doesn't mean you will forever turn away from it.
    Last edited by Chireru93; 2013-05-03 at 05:19 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    Well, if I was a new player and decided to try out this "cool, new feature" I unlocked at level 10 called Battlegrounds, zone in, and get facerolled. I would stay away from that for a long time because it is just un-enjoyable.
    That's really not a good argument. A brand new wow player dinging level 10 is *going* to get facerolled by anyone who has enough time in the game to get heirlooms regardless of the item quality. That's part of being a newbie. By your logic, we should severely gimp experience players and make them extremely easy to beat by any new character so the new character will be enticed to play. Uh huh. Right.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    1. Make heirlooms not-equip-able in Battlegrounds. Now, while this would take away the overpowered lolumad 1 shotting, it would also take away the desired experiance increase that the heirlooms provide. So this is not the best solution.
    It would happen anyway, mostly because class balance on low level is completly screwed up and wont be solved, ever. Just take def warrior tanks as example who can shield bash insta kill people and who's main attack hits just as hard.

    2. Nerf heirlooms in general. I feel like this would be the best option. This is because heirlooms are overpowered as is, in both PvP and PvE. Why not make the heirlooms the equivalent to, say, green-level items. This way, they can be used constantly throughout leveling, provide the experience boost, but not be TOO overpowered. Also, people who have "blue-level" items would have slightly better stats due to the fact that their gear is harder to obtain and more rare.
    How about no? Heirlooms were intended to make leveling easier and faster and for players not to have to worry about gearing up while leveling (which honestly, is a pain). The scaling once you hit Cataclysm is already in their unfavor.
    Just some thoughts. What do you guys think, I would love to hear what other players think because to be honest, I'm tired of getting lolfacerolled in lower-level battlegrounds!
    1. Play a class that's op on low level, disc priest, warri tank etc.
    2. Get heirlooms and make a bad class at least somewhat viable, you'll get roflstomped anyway by certain classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    Well, if I was a new player and decided to try out this "cool, new feature" I unlocked at level 10 called Battlegrounds, zone in, and get facerolled. I would stay away from that for a long time because it is just un-enjoyable.
    That would happen anyway. Someone who just started the game or recently started it will get facerolled by people who're playing it for years. They will get murdered by certain classes just the same. Hell this happened back when heirlooms were only midtier just the same, but back then the vast majority couldn't enjoy them because overtuned low level twinks were murdering everything in them.

    but not be insanely overpowered to the point where you click on something and it is auto-dead...
    We could always let the XP-off people back into the normal level battlegrounds, that would solve the heirloom problem and introduce one far worse. I bet you'd love to meet people who still have head enchants and the likes for low level char back from vanilla.

  14. #14
    The guy that decides to twink low level BG's will pwn you no matter what . Even without heirlooms he will obtain better gear than you , he will play an OP class , and he will enchant everything.

    If there is an option to be better than anyone else , why should you ignore it ?
    You can buy heirlooms , you can enchant and you can make the OP class.

    If you are so lazy , then stop playing low level BGs ...


    EDIT : Also it seems that WoW and generally mmo-rpgs are not for you .
    Instead of a "grind to be good" game you should start playing moba games or even rts .
    Last edited by Pebamama; 2013-05-03 at 06:38 AM.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Zaxio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebamama View Post
    The guy that decides to twink low level BG's will pwn you no matter what . Even without heirlooms he will obtain better gear than you , he will play an OP class , and he will enchant everything.

    If there is an option to be better than anyone else , why should you ignore it ?
    You can buy heirlooms , you can enchant and you can make the OP class.

    If you are so lazy , then stop playing low level BGs ...


    EDIT : Also it seems that WoW and generally mmo-rpgs are not for you .
    Instead of a "grind to be good" game you should start playing moba games or even rts .
    Correct.I`m not using blooms in BGs except the insigna trinket and still have much more power than heirloomed toons and do you know why because of the enchnts.At lv 70 -75 i have resilience and the pvp gear match to 74 heirloom gear.After 75 the insane greens/blues makes the heirloomed players just to sit on the grave 24/7
    So the Heirlooms aint your problem your game knowledge is

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