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  1. #101
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    Not really, that reputation already exists for characters. And they made the Bilgewater for goblins to join the Horde, similar scenario
    I get that point, but it's not the same. The bilgewater where created to cater a specific necessity: horde aligned goblins when goblins have been stalwartly neutral for a while now. But the alliance already has a militant, pro alliance high elf organization. That the silver covenant already exist as a reputation for gameplay purposes means little, we have seen it with the kirin tor, the sunreavers, the argent guys. It just isn't an valid argument.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    I get that point, but it's not the same. The bilgewater where created to cater a specific necessity: horde aligned goblins when goblins have been stalwartly neutral for a while now. But the alliance already has a militant, pro alliance high elf organization. That the silver covenant already exist as a reputation for gameplay purposes means little, we have seen it with the kirin tor, the sunreavers, the argent guys. It just isn't an valid argument.
    They should never implement high elves as a faction. Only as a sub race when choosing say night elves or humans (so a blood elf model with a high elf skin etc but is an option on character creation when selecting human/night elf)

    For starters there are fewer of them than the drenai or blood elves, its not even a race its just a political group of outcasts (they were banished)

    It would be more interesting to get a completely new race perhaps a demon tainted or something new entirely thats non native to Azeroth (only two races so far match that bill Orcs/Drenai and one of them has been here long enough to consider it their home)

  3. #103
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    They should never implement high elves as a faction. Only as a sub race when choosing say night elves or humans (so a blood elf model with a high elf skin etc but is an option on character creation when selecting human/night elf)

    For starters there are fewer of them than the drenai or blood elves, its not even a race its just a political group of outcasts (they were banished)

    It would be more interesting to get a completely new race perhaps a demon tainted or something new entirely thats non native to Azeroth (only two races so far match that bill Orcs/Drenai and one of them has been here long enough to consider it their home)
    Beyond high elves becoming playable or not, I'm completely against entirely new races; it seems to be just too hard for blizzard to develop them beyond their expansion. Just look at worgen and draenei, two races that had the bulk of their lore developed for their respective expansions, now they are all but forgotten in world matters. Inversely, goblins and blood elves are races with an already established lore and back story, their agency on world politics and current events has been far better handled, and personally, I want races that are of impact to the story.

    The Kirin Tor and Dalaran are huge parts of the lore, they are not going anywhere soon barring some catastrophe, and IMO, that means the high elves will continue to pop up, regadless of their playable status; so I want for blizzard to cut the crap and just make them playable -as a skin, a new race, a shared race, whatever- already.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuragalolz View Post
    So stratholme would be about twelves to forty times wider than the Lordaeron city while it's stated everywhere that the city of Lordaeron was the greatest of it's kingdom ?
    Posts like this just make me itch in an unreachable place.
    It's like you're having to fence.. box.. with someone's unwillingness to suspend their disbelief. Unwillingness, or incapability to keep lore and gameplay matters seperate.
    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Beyond high elves becoming playable or not, I'm completely against entirely new races; it seems to be just too hard for blizzard to develop them beyond their expansion. Just look at worgen and draenei, two races that had the bulk of their lore developed for their respective expansions, now they are all but forgotten in world matters. Inversely, goblins and blood elves are races with an already established lore and back story, their agency on world politics and current events has been far better handled, and personally, I want races that are of impact to the story.

    The Kirin Tor and Dalaran are huge parts of the lore, they are not going anywhere soon barring some catastrophe, and IMO, that means the high elves will continue to pop up, regadless of their playable status; so I want for blizzard to cut the crap and just make them playable -as a skin, a new race, a shared race, whatever- already.
    I do like that as a way of moving forward in all honesty. From what I have seen horde side of the lore in MOP they've done a good job of including all the races. Lets hope they work harder on it as its a good start so far.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Beyond high elves becoming playable or not, I'm completely against entirely new races; it seems to be just too hard for blizzard to develop them beyond their expansion. Just look at worgen and draenei, two races that had the bulk of their lore developed for their respective expansions, now they are all but forgotten in world matters. Inversely, goblins and blood elves are races with an already established lore and back story, their agency on world politics and current events has been far better handled, and personally, I want races that are of impact to the story.
    Agree. And it only gets worse.
    Look at the Pandaren playable factions. They are there just for playable Pandaren models. Even in their own expansion they have no involvement in the story. I even wonder how many non-Pandaren players now who the Pandaren faction leaders are.
    At least the Draenei is going to be more active when they Burning Legion will be involved, the Gilneans have some Alliance histroy and the Worgen might show up with a possible Forsaken skirmishes. The Pandaren will have nothing after this expansion, they have nothing outside Pandaria and their involvement of the general Warcraft story is non-existant as well.
    You have to wonder how bad future newly developed playable races are going to be.

  7. #107
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    As you see in the Picture to the right of Zul'Aman there is a opening !!

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Alleria has been a trophy wife for a long time, why would anyone want to follow her? She's done literally nothing against a majority of the recent threats.
    Certainly her absence in recent events is remarkable, but bear in mind that Alleria is a leader to her people; she is not unfamiliar to the elven people, in fact she is the eldest of the prominent Windrunner family, all of whom have served Quel'Thalas and the Alliance with distinction. Indeed, such was the trust and respect that King Anasterian had on her that she was chosen to be the representative of the Quel’dorei in the Alliance, and in fact she was the leader de facto of the High Elves in the Second War.

    Alleria is not just a person, is a hope, is a symbol for the High Elves that still prevail faithful to their ancestors, and indeed, a hero for the entire Alliance. From whom is the elven statue that there is at the Stormwind's Valley of Heroes? From whom is the statue that is in the Silver Covenant district of Dalaran? Exactly, of Alleria Windrunner herself.

    Alleria is the leader that the High Elves have long been waiting for, a heroine tanned in a thousand battles, a staunch defender of her people and her land and a full believer in the Alliance. The High Elves are scattered across Azeroth, and wander like sheep without a shepherd: they need a leader to unite them all and give them hope for a better time, the hope of go back to being what they were, to again be a people united in the face of adversity and in harmony with the other races of the Alliance.

    In short, Alleria Windrunner is a hero of the Alliance, and the High Elves faithful to their customs will know value her as such: is practically pure logic that they will take her as their desired spiritual leader. The silver unicorn flag will return to be hoisted to the wind of Greenwood.

    For Alleria! For the Quel'dorei! For the Alliance!


    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Eh, *shrug* The Silver Covenant is THE high elven organization in terms of agency and alliance participation; if they were to become playable, creating another organization would be just bloat, TSC is already the most militant high elven organization, working actively to secure alliance interests alongside humans and specifically the kirin tor.

    I mean, horses are wishes and all, but I prefer my speculation based on canon and with a healthy amount of plausibility; organizing yet another high elven group when we have TSC just seems unnecessary and unlikely.
    And what about all those High Elves who live scattered across Azeroth? What about the Quel'dorei lodges as Quel'Danil or Farstrider (and previously Quel'Lithien)? And those who live isolated supposedly in Greenwood? Or what about the High Elves who are settled in Outland or other planets?

    All of they are High Elves and remain loyal to the Alliance, yet have nothing to do with Dalaran and the Kirin Tor. Actually all these High Elves have no leader or faction to represent them, and yet there they are, fighting for their ideals along with the other races of the Alliance.

    In fact Blizzard already tried to lump all Quel'dorei loyal to the Alliance in one faction (Silvermoon Remnant) and although that faction did not reach to be implemented, that does not mean that the Silver Covenant is the only organized group of High Elves fighting by the Alliance: that would be a cruel lie.

    While it is true that so far the Silver Covenant has been the only group of High Elves who has taken an active part in the Alliance, that does not mean that all High Elves are congregated in that faction. There are many more Quel'dorei who fight every day for the Alliance and are not members of the Silver Covenant.

    Now, considering the atrocious hate which has Blizzard towards the Quel'dorei, it is not surprising than for Blizzard the Silver Covenant is the only remnant of the High Elves in the game, but we know very well that this is not so, whatever Blizzard says.

    In short, there are lots of High Elves of the Alliance who are not represented by the Silver Covenant or by Vereesa, and certainly the appearance of Alleria would cause that all of them gather around her forming a single faction: together they will much stronger. However this does not mean that, for reasons of gameplay, a small and fragmented faction of High Elves (such as the Silver Covenant) act as representative of all the Quel'dorei people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    And honestly, I wouldn't put all my money on Alleria going alliance to be honest. If a character has a GOOD REASON to go neutral, it's her, with her people divided and all. Her homeland or her alliance? it is naive to think it wouldn't cause her enough conflicted feelings to not warrant some sort of neutrality.
    Her people, her ideology, her family (alive) is in the Alliance. Her historic enemies and what she most hate and disgust herself is represented in the Horde, and therefore in the blood elves. Alleria would never have approved to become a blood elf, she would have been exiled as did her sister Vereesa and many more, because she's an elf of principles, as she has demonstrated by a thousand times.

    What the hell! Alleria is a hero of the Alliance, as always has been! In the cities of the Alliance she is represented with statues and everything! For the love of God… If after so long waiting for her return now she becomes neutral, or worse, in a friend of the Horde, that would be a kick in the teeth to all the Alliance players: a lack of respect and consistency by the part of Blizzard.

    I've said a million times that if the Horde has no heroes of their own, it's time to invent new ones!, but not destroy the iconic heroes of the Alliance. Therefore, from here I encourage you that if in the next expansion Turalyon and Alleria appear otherwise than as two heroes of the Alliance, all Alliance players are unsub in protest, to see if Blizzard listens to us once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Come on, that is just biased; I love elves, you know it; but truth is, the high elves are not the "true elves", no one is. Modern high elves have been "acting" more and more like humans -justifiable so- to the point their mayor populations are located in shared spaces with humans, their sense of "honor" that made them stay with the alliance and their vehement negative to consume fel magic were the exceptions in the thalassian populace, so both sides have diverged considerably from what a "quel'dorei" was.
    I admit that the High Elves have been humanized with the passage of time, in fact perhaps the reason why many today are still high elves is because they want to keep next to the humans.

    However blood elves are those who have completely changed their habits, their colors, their allies, and so... indeed, was they who were self-changed the name of their race to leave behind all that means being a Quel'dorei.

    It is true that perhaps the Quel'dorei spirit is lost forever, but it is clear that the High Elves are a lot more Quel'dorei that these Sin'dorei ...


  9. #109
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    why Alleria must be faction leader? It'd make sense to have leader be someone who's been in Greenwood to have become a leader for the other elves there over time, could be new character outsiders have not seen yet leading the elves of Greenwood

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    why Alleria must be faction leader? It'd make sense to have leader be someone who's been in Greenwood to have become a leader for the other elves there over time, could be new character outsiders have not seen yet leading the elves of Greenwood
    Alleria is a born leader, was the King's right hand during the Second War, is the oldest of a very important family in Quel'Thalas, is an iconic heroine for the Alliance and for the high elves, who also has fought on the front line against the evils that have plagued her people and also has a charisma that, for example, her sister Vereesa not have.

    On the other hand many people think she's dead, so her surprise appearance would cause a chain reaction that could move the High Elves undecided to side with the Alliance, following the example of the Silver Covenant. Alleria Windrunner inspires hope and a new opportunity for her people.


  11. #111
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    Surely the high elves located in greenwood have established some form of organization among themselves?

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Alleria is a born leader, was the King's right hand during the Second War, is the oldest of a very important family in Quel'Thalas, is an iconic heroine for the Alliance and for the high elves, who also has fought on the front line against the evils that have plagued her people and also has a charisma that, for example, her sister Vereesa not have.

    On the other hand many people think she's dead, so her surprise appearance would cause a chain reaction that could move the High Elves undecided to side with the Alliance, following the example of the Silver Covenant. Alleria Windrunner inspires hope and a new opportunity for her people.
    Personally I hope she doesnt just walk into it and assume the job. I would rather you go through a long quest chain where you find her and some rag tag forces on outland in some unknown area/another planet and you help them get back to Azeroth. Then having her meet up with sylvie that would be interesting.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    Surely the high elves located in greenwood have established some form of organization among themselves?
    Well, they could simply have a regent.
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  14. #114
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    And what about all those High Elves who live scattered across Azeroth? What about the Quel'dorei lodges as Quel'Danil or Farstrider (and previously Quel'Lithien)? And those who live isolated supposedly in Greenwood? Or what about the High Elves who are settled in Outland or other planets?

    All of they are High Elves and remain loyal to the Alliance, yet have nothing to do with Dalaran and the Kirin Tor. Actually all these High Elves have no leader or faction to represent them, and yet there they are, fighting for their ideals along with the other races of the Alliance.

    In fact Blizzard already tried to lump all Quel'dorei loyal to the Alliance in one faction (Silvermoon Remnant) and although that faction did not reach to be implemented, that does not mean that the Silver Covenant is the only organized group of High Elves fighting by the Alliance: that would be a cruel lie.

    While it is true that so far the Silver Covenant has been the only group of High Elves who has taken an active part in the Alliance, that does not mean that all High Elves are congregated in that faction. There are many more Quel'dorei who fight every day for the Alliance and are not members of the Silver Covenant.

    Now, considering the atrocious hate which has Blizzard towards the Quel'dorei, it is not surprising than for Blizzard the Silver Covenant is the only remnant of the High Elves in the game, but we know very well that this is not so, whatever Blizzard says.

    In short, there are lots of High Elves of the Alliance who are not represented by the Silver Covenant or by Vereesa, and certainly the appearance of Alleria would cause that all of them gather around her forming a single faction: together they will much stronger. However this does not mean that, for reasons of gameplay, a small and fragmented faction of High Elves (such as the Silver Covenant) act as representative of all the Quel'dorei people.
    You said it yourself "scattered" Quel'danil is the only high elven place that seems to have an independent government in azeroth, and it's just a lodge, not even a town. Farstriders lodge is even less than that because the only high elf there is Vyrin -maybe there are more, but their numbers so negligible it doesn't even gets represented in game. "greenwood" is fanficion at worst, shroedinger theory at best, you can't use it for argumentation.

    Regardless of their numbers, if they even surpass the numbers of the Silver covenant -cause the only, sketchy, evidence is in game representation, and that would clearly say that most high elves are now SC- they are not a consolidated organization at all, and that's the point. They are not mobilized, they are not militant, they just keep to themselves, they might e affiliated with the alliance, but they are not, in no way, part of the alliance vanguard on the current conflicts. The Silver Covenant is the ONLY militant high elven faction in the alliance, that is not a "cruel lie" those are merely the facts. Your points are wishful thinking at best, and that's okay, but it doesn't make a case.

    Though I agree; a strong commanding figure, a renowned hero, could bring the scattered high elves under a unique banner. But that brings us to...



    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Her people, her ideology, her family (alive) is in the Alliance. Her historic enemies and what she most hate and disgust herself is represented in the Horde, and therefore in the blood elves. Alleria would never have approved to become a blood elf, she would have been exiled as did her sister Vereesa and many more, because she's an elf of principles, as she has demonstrated by a thousand times.

    What the hell! Alleria is a hero of the Alliance, as always has been! In the cities of the Alliance she is represented with statues and everything! For the love of God… If after so long waiting for her return now she becomes neutral, or worse, in a friend of the Horde, that would be a kick in the teeth to all the Alliance players: a lack of respect and consistency by the part of Blizzard.

    I've said a million times that if the Horde has no heroes of their own, it's time to invent new ones!, but not destroy the iconic heroes of the Alliance. Therefore, from here I encourage you that if in the next expansion Turalyon and Alleria appear otherwise than as two heroes of the Alliance, all Alliance players are unsub in protest, to see if Blizzard listens to us once.

    Alleria did everything for Quel'thalas, she went to hell and back for revenge on her people and her family and her homeland, that was her main reason to join the alliance. You can't just dismis such an integral part of her motives because you don't like it, that's childish. I'm not saying she is going to join the horde, but I turning neutral is a very possible scenario, because it would make sense.

    Vereesa is so stalwartly alliance because she was there during the whole shebang. Alleria has been MIA for ages, and now returning to a people divided, can you logically expect her to just side with a faction without even considering the alternative? Of course, a lot depends on what she has been up to. But the point stands, when she left, Quel'thalas was her home, and she will want to come back.

    Of course, she could very well just side with Vereesa's ideals immediately and go totally alliance, or she could try to unite her people under the alliance, or as an independant organization beyond faction conflicts, All I'm saying is a valid characterization an not at all warrant of such extremism as "rage-quiting".

    Personally, I think you put too much emphasis on the quel'dorei alliance with the alliance as a defining trait of their race, when culturally, it was nothing but a alliance of convenience that was quickly dropped at the first chance. All of the alliance affiliated high elves we see today, are the original dissidents of the Thalassian politics of retreat under Anasterian, so the fact is, the only true "high elf", would be a neutral high elf.

    IMO Alleria belongs to the alliance, I want her there, but I'm prepared to accept otherwise, as long as it's not full on horde affiliation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post

    I admit that the High Elves have been humanized with the passage of time, in fact perhaps the reason why many today are still high elves is because they want to keep next to the humans.

    However blood elves are those who have completely changed their habits, their colors, their allies, and so... indeed, was they who were self-changed the name of their race to leave behind all that means being a Quel'dorei.

    It is true that perhaps the Quel'dorei spirit is lost forever, but it is clear that the High Elves are a lot more Quel'dorei that these Sin'dorei ...

    I think it is a polarization. Queldorei always were Prideful; and with the sedition, that pride manifested differently on both good and bad ways, because pride on itself is neutral.

    High elves became proud in their customs and honor, but also self righteous and resentful, blood elves became confident and bold, but sacrificed morals in order to survive.

    I think the high elves are morally superior without a doubt on the grand scale, but I just can't dismiss the struggle of the blood elves; they made mistakes, many, but they owned up to them and are moving forward. Theirs is a story of adversity and struggle, which makes them more relatable.
    Last edited by TheDangerZone; 2013-05-03 at 12:55 PM.

  15. #115
    Brewmaster Alanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    They should never implement high elves as a faction. Only as a sub race when choosing say night elves or humans (so a blood elf model with a high elf skin etc but is an option on character creation when selecting human/night elf)

    For starters there are fewer of them than the drenai or blood elves, its not even a race its just a political group of outcasts (they were banished)

    It would be more interesting to get a completely new race perhaps a demon tainted or something new entirely thats non native to Azeroth (only two races so far match that bill Orcs/Drenai and one of them has been here long enough to consider it their home)
    No they shouldn't. They are a faction with the same model as blood elves. We have been discussion this to death. If you Rp folks wanna roll a elf go with Night elf or Blood elf.

    I already found it annoying They didn't change the pandaren facials for red and blue.

    I realy dont wanna see High elf with the same model as blood elves on the blue side.

    Political group of outcasts <--- Yes this is correct. It does feel weird to me (warcraft 3 blood elf fan) to fight them at all.

    Edit:

    The only thing I would like to see is that the High Elf ranks will join again with Blood elves with the Sunwell restored and stuff.
    IMO the fight of the 2 faction on Thundre Isle is just some huge mistake. I heard Lor'themar say couple of times that it wasn't their fault.
    They even got interrupted by Khan.

    I dont think this fight will last long. Here is hoping that the Sunwell story will be continued in the future, so we can lay the high elf part to rest.

    @Northem
    Bro write a book with it, or go to the RP forum.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2013-05-03 at 01:32 PM.


  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Alleria has been a trophy wife for a long time, why would anyone want to follow her? She's done literally nothing against a majority of the recent threats.
    Alleria hasn't been around for decades. How would she have done anything against them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Alleria is a born leader, was the King's right hand during the Second War, is the oldest of a very important family in Quel'Thalas, is an iconic heroine for the Alliance and for the high elves, who also has fought on the front line against the evils that have plagued her people and also has a charisma that, for example, her sister Vereesa not have.
    Again, she hasn't been around for decades. She might not even be aware of the state of her homeland.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Appel View Post
    No they shouldn't. They are a faction with the same model as blood elves. We have been discussion this to death. If you Rp folks wanna roll a elf go with Night elf or Blood elf.

    I already found it annoying They didn't change the pandaren facials for red and blue.

    I realy dont wanna see High elf with the same model as blood elves on the blue side.

    Political group of outcasts <--- Yes this is correct. It does feel weird to me (warcraft 3 blood elf fan) to fight them at all.

    Edit:

    The only thing I would like to see is that the High Elf ranks will join again with Blood elves with the Sunwell restored and stuff.
    IMO the fight of the 2 faction on Thundre Isle is just some huge mistake. I heard Lor'themar say couple of times that it wasn't their fault.
    They even got interrupted by Khan.

    I dont think this fight will last long. Here is hoping that the Sunwell story will be continued in the future, so we can lay the high elf part to rest.
    I personally don't think they should add them at all, i'm saying at the very most it would be as some sort of sub faction choice. Personally I feel that since they are so low in number and not technically a race but a group of political outcasts its best we see them only as NPCs and then later on some lore to show that they put it behind them or something. the blood elves no longer use fel magic as a source of power (this was the main reason the high elves left was it not?) Since the sunwell was restored they have no need to. the only thing the high elves can moan about is that the blood elves are a part of the horde.

    I rolled a blood elf DK purely because I prefer the racial and models. My fav race is tauren always has been I have 0 desire to be a high elf in game.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Personally I hope she doesnt just walk into it and assume the job. I would rather you go through a long quest chain where you find her and some rag tag forces on outland in some unknown area/another planet and you help them get back to Azeroth. Then having her meet up with sylvie that would be interesting.
    Your theory is not incompatible with my ideas, in fact I am also in favor of making the encounter with Alleria something exciting and epic by an event or a series of quests through which the High Elves seal their fate with the Alliance.

    The Horde could have a similar experience finding Broxigar (assuming he's still alive in the hands of Sargeras) or by making Rexxar brings the ogres to serve the Horde officially.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 05:45 PM ----------

    By the way, Amonra if I did not directly answer you is not because I do not read your answers, quite the contrary, I agree with you but I have more illusory vision, not so realistic, so always I let myself down with everything... (when Alleria returns turned into a blood elf I will think: I knew it!).


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