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  1. #21
    Okay, time to get the knuckles cracking.

    Why are there no female Mogu? Good question. Vykrul, Dwarves and Gnomes all had them, so why should Mogu be an exception?

    Easy, they aren't. There were at one time Mogu females, Monara is proof of this. Look at the Twin Consorts dungeon journal again,
    The Twin Consorts are said to be greatest of the Thunder King's treasures. Rumored to be the only known female mogu in existence, Lei Shen keeps his trophies close and their combined arsenal against interlopers closer.

    Rumoured. Remember, the ones keeping history on everything Mogu are Pandaren, who had there history and scrolls destroyed when Lei Shen rose to power. Any records of female Mogu before Lei Shens rise would be lost. Mogu females at one time most likely existed. Why did Lei Shen kill them? Simple, men are better at fighting, after he took Ra-Dens power and reversed the Curse of Flesh, he realized they didn't need females any more. They would be useless, and also, they run the risk of birthing another 'Lei Shen'-type Mogu. He would much rather just have mindless, soulless constructs in his empire than run the risk of someone coming along who would want to over throw him.

    This brings me to Mogu age. I do think Mogu are actually immortal, which would explain Shan Kien and Iron Qon. But if they are immortal, how did Lei Shen die of old age? Well, thats when we have to start speculating. My personal belief is that Lei Shen is so absurdly powerful that his body can't sustain it. It is says he charges like a battery, so maybe, he looked around, was happy with the empire he made, and simply let himself run out of power. It would explain why he is so ashamed of the Mogu when he is ressurrected.

    And about Mogu history, remember, pretty much every archaeology find in Pandaria was written by the Pandaren. One of two things most likely occured:

    1) They didn't know the full story of the Mogu and Saurok, so they just assumed how they came to be.
    2) They don't want people knowing that Mogu are born from the Titans, as it may change their perception on them.

    Personally, I see 1) as bring more likely, as like what was brought up in this thread, history isn't always right.

    Now to the fun stuff, Ra-Den. There is no set in stone theory, pretty much everything is unknown, all we have is theories, and here is mine.

    After the Titans left, all the Titan Watchers and Keepers, aside from Tyr, fell silent. The Titans left thinking everything with the Old Gods was good, but they were horribly wrong. So the Watchers isolated themselves from the mortal races, as they looked at ways to contain the Old Gods (Galakrond, we will find out, was one possible solution Tyr thought of). Ra-Den was dealing with something else though, the Sha. He was looking for a way to contain the Sha, and Lei Shen came up to him with a proposal; Give him the powers of the Titan, and he will create a strict empire that will follow society the way the Titans intend.

    Ra-Den was intrigued by this, so he gave Lei Shen a portion of his power to do so. And Lei Shen showed his loyalty be immediately ripping out Ra-Dens heart and keeping him prisoner. He tortured and experimented on him, which led to things like Anima and the Divine Bell. This is why Ra-Den is so depressed and angry when we fight him. The last time he trusted mortals to do the right thing, he was mutilated and kept prisoner for 15k years. Actually, maybe the other keepers heard of what happened to Ra-Den, and this is why they fell silent? Who knows.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Rumoured. Remember, the ones keeping history on everything Mogu are Pandaren, who had there history and scrolls destroyed when Lei Shen rose to power. Any records of female Mogu before Lei Shens rise would be lost. Mogu females at one time most likely existed. Why did Lei Shen kill them? Simple, men are better at fighting, after he took Ra-Dens power and reversed the Curse of Flesh, he realized they didn't need females any more. They would be useless, and also, they run the risk of birthing another 'Lei Shen'-type Mogu. He would much rather just have mindless, soulless constructs in his empire than run the risk of someone coming along who would want to over throw him.
    My problem with this theory remains that the Mogu seemed unable of procreation of females and even while the Mogu were able to partially reverse the Curse of Flesh, they were still, as proven by the dead for Achievement http://www.wowpedia.org/These_Mogu_Have_Gotta_Go-gu, all of these pretty died of old age and the existence of a giant mogu graveyard is a hints towards that Mogu can die of old age.

    And i don't think that Lei shen feared a Mogu that could have been stronger than him, and Lei Shen appears as a pretty arrogant bastard.

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    This brings me to Mogu age. I do think Mogu are actually immortal, which would explain Shan Kien and Iron Qon. But if they are immortal, how did Lei Shen die of old age? Well, thats when we have to start speculating. My personal belief is that Lei Shen is so absurdly powerful that his body can't sustain it. It is says he charges like a battery, so maybe, he looked around, was happy with the empire he made, and simply let himself run out of power. It would explain why he is so ashamed of the Mogu when he is ressurrected.
    As pointed above, there were other Mogu as well that died of old age.


    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Ra-Den was intrigued by this, so he gave Lei Shen a portion of his power to do so. And Lei Shen showed his loyalty be immediately ripping out Ra-Dens heart and keeping him prisoner. He tortured and experimented on him, which led to things like Anima and the Divine Bell. This is why Ra-Den is so depressed and angry when we fight him. The last time he trusted mortals to do the right thing, he was mutilated and kept prisoner for 15k years. Actually, maybe the other keepers heard of what happened to Ra-Den, and this is why they fell silent? Who knows.
    This "ripped his heart out" isn't something that should be taken literal i think.

    Ra-den had 2 sources of powers at his hands, the Power of the Storms (As he was the Keeper of Storms) and the Power of his Blood (Power of creation since he is a Titan Keeper).

    Lei Shen took the Power of the Storms for himself and locked up Ra-den for to abuse the Power of his blood.

    Also the idea of this plan seems flawed, Ra-den was the Mogu God, the Mogu fought each other because Ra-den was silent, if Ra-den wanted to keep the Sha in check, he should give the Mogu the order to stop fighting eachother and quell any fightings on Pandaria.

    But Ra-den was probably just a Minion for the Titans as well, Ra-dens Job was to kill Y'shaarj and create another Sholazar / Un'goro , he created the Mogu which killed Y'shaarj and then created the Vale of eternal Blossoms, after that, Ra-dens Job was done and didn't get any new orders which meant no new orders for the Mogu.

    Mogu got cursed with flesh and suddenly had a problem with living a live without purpose.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  3. #23
    That achievement and the Mogu graveyards are not proof of them being able to die naturally. The Mogu are a militant race who literally live for conquest. It is thus obly natural to assume they experience a large amount of casualties. I highly doubt the Mogu would have stopped fighting other races once Lei Shen took power.

    And no, im pretty sure it was literal. Wrathion has you take Lei Shens heart so he can eat it and absorb the Titanic power, which he does, after which he experience the 'we have fallen' vision. So im pretty sure he had Ra-Dens heart in him when we kill him.

    And yea, Ra-Den and the Mogu are what killed Y'Shaarj and released the Sha. Take into account him saying there is a yawning chasm beneath us, and that we can not fix our doomed course, and it seems that Ra-Den was really affected by the Sha. That, and the fact that it seems that the moment the Titans left the Sha afflicted the Mogu, makes it me think that the Sha problem was never solved. I doubt Ra-Den would just have fallen silent in such dire times (though dawn of the aspects might prove me wrong on this).

    Also, the Sha were a problem that all races of Pandaria had to deal with and had the potential to strengthen. Ra-Een can't just simply tell them to stop fighting and expect them to listen (And the latest DotA chapter hints at watchers not being allowed to interfere with Mortals). So to him, Lei Shens idea would make sense. He had no reason to doubt him anyways, last he saw the Mogu were still his followers.

    Edit: excuse any grammar mistakes, using a slow smartphone to type.
    Last edited by babo7000; 2013-04-30 at 11:59 PM.

  4. #24
    something about the mogu female and mogu procreation thing: on mogu'shan palace, after beating the first boss, the mogu start beating each other and talking about each other's mothers.

    that implies mogu females do exist and the mogu have moms like everybody.

    "Your mother is so old, she saw the rise of the first kingdom!"

    is, present tense. this leads me to think that perhaps mogu females still exist, they are just hidden somewhere.

    OP(person), you can (and should) add this bit to the OP (post)
    Last edited by checking facts; 2013-05-01 at 12:02 AM.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    That achievement and the Mogu graveyards are not proof of them being able to die naturally. The Mogu are a militant race who literally live for conquest. It is thus obly natural to assume they experience a large amount of casualties. I highly doubt the Mogu would have stopped fighting other races once Lei Shen took power.
    It's been noted that Lei Shen died from old age. Although it could mean that mogu simply grow more feeble with age without actually dying, and then Lei Shen over-exerted himself in battle and died as a result of that. But that's practically the same thing, really.

    But yeah, most of them would have died in battle. The strongest of the undead mogu that are raised take the form of spectral warriors, not old men.

    And yea, Ra-Den and the Mogu are what killed Y'Shaarj and released the Sha. Take into account him saying there is a yawning chasm beneath us, and that we can not fix our doomed course, and it seems that Ra-Den was really affected by the Sha. That, and the fact that it seems that the moment the Titans left the Sha afflicted the Mogu, makes it me think that the Sha problem was never solved. I doubt Ra-Den would just have fallen silent in such dire times (though dawn of the aspects might prove me wrong on this).
    Possibly they were just sent to Pandaria to watch over his remains and maintain the titan seals and facilities there. Wrathion speculates on this. I doubt an Old God could be felled by watchers and servants - the history of titan conflict with the Old Gods seems to involve the titans dealing with the Old Gods themselves, while titan servitors deal with the slaves of the Old Gods - faceless ones, elementals, and so forth.

    The remaining essence of Y'Shaarj seems to have been what drove Ra-Den to despair, just as the watchers of Ulduar were almost entirely subverted by Yogg-Saron's influence.

  6. #26
    Yea as I said in the first post, Lei Shen is probably like a battery. He died because he he was so powerful that he needed to charge.himself to survive, and he was happy with his kingdom and let himself die out.

    TBH, I doubt Ra-Den was The Storm in that Mogu story. It seems a bit too much for him to be able take an OG on by himself, and he is The Keeper of Storms.
    Last edited by babo7000; 2013-05-01 at 12:13 AM.

  7. #27
    Mechagnome SanderZammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    something about the mogu female and mogu procreation thing: on mogu'shan palace, after beating the first boss, the mogu start beating each other and talking about each other's mothers.

    that implies mogu females do exist and the mogu have moms like everybody.

    "Your mother is so old, she saw the rise of the first kingdom!"

    is, present tense. this leads me to think that perhaps mogu females still exist, they are just hidden somewhere.

    OP(person), you can (and should) add this bit to the OP (post)
    To be honest, these are exactly the kind of things that can be a somewhat unreliable source. A hastily written joke, with most likely no second thought given to the fact it might interfere with lore. Human error and all that, as some points in the OP already prove - this is not even close to being in the same category as the discrepancy of where Lei Shen found Ra-Den (The Sacred Mount/Isle of Thunder, or Mogu'shan Vaults).
    And even if you disregard the possibility of human error, you can still see mogu females as a mother in a non-literal way, see my earlier post (#19) if you don't know what I mean, specifically the point about Lei Shen having brothers and being born.

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    about mogu females, i think after lei shen killed the queen he may have just changed mogu society to be very oppressive to females, and so keep them hidden away. a few things hint that mogu have "male needs" so i doubt that they are gone entirely.

    we never see yaungol females either, and they have a similar society based on strength and conquest/raiding.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Yea as I said in the first post, Lei Shen is probably like a battery. He died because he he was so powerful that he needed to charge.himself to survive, and he was happy with his kingdom and let himself die out.
    That's a cool thought, but it seems like Lei Shen is the source of power for his empire, rather than someone who needs to absorb power to survive. During the fight, he doesn't draw energy from a power source, he is the power source, directly charging up the mechanisms of his fortress.

    His resurrection by the Zandalari seems like it could've had more storyline and thought put into it in light of his power. Felt like they were kind've arbitrarily shoe-horned in. Could have been the pandaren defeated Lei Shen and took his black heart, leaving him with a limited amount of power that eventually got used up and he withered away and died. The heart was hidden away somewhere, maybe powering the machinery in the Mogu'Shan Vaults, and the Zandalari steal it away and use it to restore his body.

    TBH, I doubt Ra-Den was The Storm in that Mogu story. It seems a bit too much for him to be able take an OG on by himself, and he is The Keeper of Storms.
    I had the same thought. The Storm = titan/s, IMO. Ra-Den was their agent overseeing the Pandaria facilities. He and the mogu were installed as protectors, like the earthen and keepers of Ulduar in Northrend. They may have also taken part in the fighting against Y'Shaarj's servants - faceless ones, the mantid's aqir ancestors, and whatever other beasties the Old God had under his control.

    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    about mogu females, i think after lei shen killed the queen he may have just changed mogu society to be very oppressive to females, and so keep them hidden away. a few things hint that mogu have "male needs" so i doubt that they are gone entirely.

    we never see yaungol females either, and they have a similar society based on strength and conquest/raiding.
    A lot of the time this sort of thing is just for the sake of time and game space - there's lots of monsters that don't have distinct female counterparts, who still presumably exist as part of their life-cycle (gnolls, troggs, murlocs, hozen, etc). I put the mogu in the same boat, until the Twin Consorts encounter description explicitly mentioned the lack of mogu females.

    I wonder if the mogu originally were created purely through titan machines like the Forge of the Endless, and divided into gender as a result of the Curse of Flesh. Perhaps Lei Shen planned to return to the titans 'original plan', and began purging his empire of females with the intent of afterwards curing everyone of the Curse of Flesh and going back to producing new mogu with machines.
    Last edited by Golden Yak; 2013-05-01 at 01:58 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    I wonder if the mogu originally were created purely through titan machines like the Forge of the Endless, and divided into gender as a result of the Curse of Flesh. Perhaps Lei Shen planned to return to the titans 'original plan', and began purging his empire of females with the intent of afterwards curing everyone of the Curse of Flesh and going back to producing new mogu with machines.
    that would make the creation of the twins really weird.

    "IMMA PURGE ALL GIRLS CAUSE THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE DA BLUEPRINTS!"

    *kills all mogu girls*

    "that's better. damn it, I'm getting horny. where are the girls? wait, I just killed them all... SOMEONE MAKE ME SOME NEW GIRLS!"

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 03:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SanderZammy View Post
    To be honest, these are exactly the kind of things that can be a somewhat unreliable source. A hastily written joke, with most likely no second thought given to the fact it might interfere with lore. Human error and all that, as some points in the OP already prove - this is not even close to being in the same category as the discrepancy of where Lei Shen found Ra-Den (The Sacred Mount/Isle of Thunder, or Mogu'shan Vaults).
    And even if you disregard the possibility of human error, you can still see mogu females as a mother in a non-literal way, see my earlier post (#19) if you don't know what I mean, specifically the point about Lei Shen having brothers and being born.
    it doesn't really matter if it's a hastily written joke or not. it's a dialog line from an NPC in a dungeon, therefore it's official lore.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  11. #31
    A lot of lore talk going on here. It pretty much comes down to no body knows for sure. Even blizzard doesn't know half the time. Pretty much just gotta figure it out and piece it together.

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans Auxis's Avatar
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    I think the mogu keep themselves alive by transferring the souls of aged bodies into statues.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    I have a theory that may be a bit dramatic but would explain Alot of the secrets held by both Lei Shen and Ra-den.

    Ra-den willingly handed over his Titanic Power over Lightning after he himself was corrupted with the curse of the flesh.

    Why Lei Shen? Feeling the onset of mortal emotions as his own weakness upon seeing one of his creations wander in alone and unafraid he probably entrusted the task of Defending the Vale against the servants of the Old Gods (Mantid) and restoring order to Pandaria. Not realizing what such power would do to an all to eager Thunder King he completed the task handed to him with an Iron Fist by enslaving Pandaria.
    << End of my own Quote

    >>> Your Thoughts
    Lei Shen felt emotions, he was hateful and angry as well.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Duel_of_...r_and_Strength

    pretty much confirms this.
    I was referring to Ra-den's capacity to experience the worst of the Negative Emotions as most mortals do not Lei Shen's. As Constructs/Warden's most Warden's seem to follow orders like well programmed robots. Under the curse of the flesh they are as weak to the influence of the Old God's as most mortals.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The Difference between a Titan Keeper and Construct may be the fact that Titan Keeper wield the very essence of a Titan, that means the very Essence of creation.
    It may not be his Blood in a sense as an actual living body has it.
    Titans define perfection from being made of pure stone or metal and animated. I see your point that the Ra-den was a instrument of creation. But bleeding and moral weakness are "human" flesh-bag emotions completely different from a logical metallic Guardian.

    "Ra-den's condition seems to be a result of the curse of the flesh. Weak mind, weaker body which would have been stronger if stone.

    exerpt from The Curse and the Silence: http://www.wowhead.com/object=218437
    For many ages the mogu guarded the great works of the titans. Always they listened to their master. Always they were obedient. With stony determination, they stood in ageless vigil.
    Even as their master fell silent.
    No mogu writings survive from the era when their stone turned to flesh. How terrifying it must have been for the mogu to breathe, to bleed, to die.
    They turned to their master for guidance, but still, he was silent.
    With flesh came the other curses of mortality: pride and greed, fear and anger. No longer united in purpose, the mogu fought amongst themselves.
    Powerful mogu warlords gathered up followers and made war on one another. Their battles scorched the land, terrifying the other mortal races.
    And still, their master said nothing."

    If the Mogu were made in the maker's image and never bled before the curse, it would follow that the Maker/Keeper/Ra-den also discovered he too could bleed. Therefore Ra-den's blood is not natural. It may not be Y'shaarj's blood but normal Keepers shouldn't have it either. Besides the Titans mostly observe evolution like in Un'Goro. Mogu Flesh Shaping may have just resulted from the Mogu's curiosity about this new substance from Ra-den.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    That achievement and the Mogu graveyards are not proof of them being able to die naturally. The Mogu are a militant race who literally live for conquest. It is thus obly natural to assume they experience a large amount of casualties. I highly doubt the Mogu would have stopped fighting other races once Lei Shen took power.
    It would be strange if they don't mention that Mogu X "died during a battle against Y" while mentioning other stuff and i highly doubt that the Forgemaster died during a battle.

    After Lei Shen's rule was established, i don't think that there that much battles against rebels anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    And no, im pretty sure it was literal. Wrathion has you take Lei Shens heart so he can eat it and absorb the Titanic power, which he does, after which he experience the 'we have fallen' vision. So im pretty sure he had Ra-Dens heart in him when we kill him.
    Which would bring Ra-den situation into question, it's difficult to live without a heart, and if he don't need a heart to live, why does he have one?

    Also, i think that Lei Shen' heart has been chosen for a pretty pragmatic reason, what kind of item should you bring to Wrathion so that he can take Lei Shen's power?

    His Head?
    Liver?
    Other Organs?

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    And yea, Ra-Den and the Mogu are what killed Y'Shaarj and released the Sha. Take into account him saying there is a yawning chasm beneath us, and that we can not fix our doomed course, and it seems that Ra-Den was really affected by the Sha. That, and the fact that it seems that the moment the Titans left the Sha afflicted the Mogu, makes it me think that the Sha problem was never solved. I doubt Ra-Den would just have fallen silent in such dire times (though dawn of the aspects might prove me wrong on this).
    I'm still going with that Ra-dens job was done after Y'shaarj was dead and he simply didn't get any new orders from the Titans.

    Also this "Yawning chasm" thing is pretty cryptic, you can't be really sure about what Ra-den is exactly talking.




    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    I was referring to Ra-den's capacity to experience the worst of the Negative Emotions as most mortals do not Lei Shen's. As Constructs/Warden's most Warden's seem to follow orders like well programmed robots. Under the curse of the flesh they are as weak to the influence of the Old God's as most mortals.
    Then why hand his powers over to a power hungry person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    Titans define perfection from being made of pure stone or metal and animated. I see your point that the Ra-den was a instrument of creation. But bleeding and moral weakness are "human" flesh-bag emotions completely different from a logical metallic Guardian.

    "Ra-den's condition seems to be a result of the curse of the flesh. Weak mind, weaker body which would have been stronger if stone.
    You don't know if Ra-den is exactly afflicted with the Curse of Flesh, maybe any Titan Keeper can "bleed" like Ra-den and his "blood" can be used to create stuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    exerpt from The Curse and the Silence: http://www.wowhead.com/object=218437
    For many ages the mogu guarded the great works of the titans. Always they listened to their master. Always they were obedient. With stony determination, they stood in ageless vigil.
    Even as their master fell silent.
    No mogu writings survive from the era when their stone turned to flesh. How terrifying it must have been for the mogu to breathe, to bleed, to die.
    They turned to their master for guidance, but still, he was silent.
    With flesh came the other curses of mortality: pride and greed, fear and anger. No longer united in purpose, the mogu fought amongst themselves.
    Powerful mogu warlords gathered up followers and made war on one another. Their battles scorched the land, terrifying the other mortal races.
    And still, their master said nothing."
    This Story solely speaks of the Mogu, that's why it is named "Curse and the Silence" The Curse of Flesh and the Silence of Ra-den.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You don't know if Ra-den is exactly afflicted with the Curse of Flesh, maybe any Titan Keeper can "bleed" like Ra-den and his "blood" can be used to create stuff?
    actually according to ra-den's skills in-game it appears that the elements of creation are "anima" and "vita", their blood and lightning.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    "In the days before Lei Shen founded the old empire, there stood a high plateau shrouded in perpetual storm. It was called the "Thundering Mountain," and was the ancestral seat of the one the mogu once called "master."(Ra-den)

    History does not record what Lei Shen found when he ascended the mountain and disappeared into its vaults. But when he returned, he wielded the power of a thousand storms and declared the mount to be his seat of power. Atop its summit he built a majestic and forbidden city."(Throne of Thunder)

    http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Sacred_Mount

    According to this, This Mountain in which Ra-den was hiding, is very same Mountain on which Lei Shen built the Throne of thunder which sank into the sea and became the Isle of Thunder.
    The Mogu's master wasn't Ra-Den (a titan construct) but were the Titans themselves. From what I understand there aren't any discrepancies.

    The Titans did create the Mogu and left later on. After some time the Mogu did find the Vale of eternal blossoms and were transformed from stone into flesh while still having the powers the Titans gave them (power to create life). They can turn stones to life and the vale will turn stone into flesh so that they don't need females. Lei-Shen later on went into the Mogushan Vaults where he found Ra-Den and the engine. With Ra-Den he knew what powers are hidden on top of the Sacred Mount and went there to get them.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    actually according to ra-den's skills in-game it appears that the elements of creation are "anima" and "vita", their blood and lightning.
    Yes, i am aware of this.

    But i'm wondering if the Anima Power (Creation and such) is something that any Titan Keeper holds while the Power of the Storms (Vita) is special to Ra-den.

    Granted, special to Ra-den may be not the proper term, since Thorim holds similiar powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    The Mogu's master wasn't Ra-Den (a titan construct) but were the Titans themselves. From what I understand there aren't any discrepancies.

    The Titans did create the Mogu and left later on. After some time the Mogu did find the Vale of eternal blossoms and were transformed from stone into flesh while still having the powers the Titans gave them (power to create life). They can turn stones to life and the vale will turn stone into flesh so that they don't need females. Lei-Shen later on went into the Mogushan Vaults where he found Ra-Den and the engine. With Ra-Den he knew what powers are hidden on top of the Sacred Mount and went there to get them.
    It is Ra-den.

    Ra-den was their Master, the silhouette shown in the stories always show Ra-den, also in one of those Titan Runestone whispers, Wrathion tells that Ra-den is actually just called "Ra", the Mogu called him "Master Ra" which translates as "Ra-den".
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

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