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  1. #101
    Syn did you really just flat out ignore the rest of the thread? FEAR IS NOT BREAKING ON DAMAGE. THAT'S 99% OF THE ISSUE WITH IT RIGHT NOW.
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Taros View Post
    Fear is already the weakest cc in the game.
    Basically this.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-04 at 04:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vathius View Post
    Fear needs to be fixed. and I mean completely overhauled.

    fixes as follows

    1) Breaks on a very very low % damage instantly based on the targets hps.
    2) Not spamable, - 15 sec CD
    3) Obeys the laws of wow physics ie...you cant 'run' around underwater or fall through the world.
    4) Limited to single target only.

    Currently Locks don't need fear they are far to tanky as it is, and Priests pump out far to much dps as shadow to need fear as part of their arsenal.

    Fear should be utilized for CC purposes only.

    That is all
    Can I ask you what class you play Vathius? Probably a hunter, rogue, or mage would be my guess

  3. #103
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    The following specs can de-magic/poly immune:
    - Healers
    - Druids
    - Shadowpriests

    The following specs can de-curse (Hex):
    - Shamans
    - Mages
    - Paladins

    The following specs can de-magic/fear break:
    - All healers
    - All Undead
    - Warriors
    - Shamans
    - Priests
    - Death Knights
    - Monks
    - Paladins

    Also, regarding Hex breaking on damage, it breaks on twice the damage that the easier-breaking fears break on. Outside of MLS and Shatterplay, not many serious comps combine two of Mage/Druid/Paladin - which means so long as you are willing to always throw your Hex on the de-curser, it should always go full duration. Similarly, so long as you throw your Poly's on the enemy healer or Spriest (if both are present) it should always go full duration. How many Fears do you think go full duration in MoP? Maybe as much as half? Maybe more like a third?

    The healing factor on Polymorph isn't a concern to frost mages, they aren't a pressure class - when they set up their CC, given the comps they play - they can burst a full-health opponent down. By contrast, Affliction and Shadow are reliant on getting a target low before they go for a kill - if fears healed people then pretty much every pressure comp out there wouldn't work (with the exception of Spicy Chicken, which is the only pressure comp without a fear class).

    Frost Mages don't have DoTs - so the risk of Polymorph breaking on damage is "don't poly then ice lance your own sheep" - where as DoT classes (warriors included, via rend/deep wounds) would automatically break their own CC if Fears didn't absorb some damage: the balance is in finding a value where you can still Psy Scream / Intimidating Shout / Howl of Terror / Fear (as a peel) without it instantly breaking, and without it becoming a semi-stun effect. Classes which are totally reliant on DoTs need CC's that don't break instantaneously on damage - for the same reason, Balance and Ferals get Roots and Cyclones - neither of which break instantly on damage either. If a mage breaks his own poly, it's his mis-play in attacking something he just CC'd - if he's playing with a class that has DoTs, he has a glyph to wipe DoTs on application.

    The damage that fear absorbs is random, it should be a fixed value (ie. 10% of max health) - and should be equal for all fear effects (it's not). The real thing that people hate about fear though isn't that it absorbs DoT ticks, it's that it fears you into dumb places - all fears should cause targets to tremble, rather than running around blindly. Lastly, there are probably too many ways to break fear at this point, but that should probably only be looked at after the first two things are adjusted.
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  4. #104
    Its currently okay and was bad during some time in some expansions, nothing broken with it now, you can save yourself from it quite easily as has already been posted..
    Going to McDonalds for a salad is like going to a brothel for a hug.

  5. #105
    Fear is fine. It's just the absolutely ridiculous fear pathing that needs to be fixed.

  6. #106
    Hang on so fear doesnt break on damage how would a shadowpriest ever get dots off against any melee who all have fear breakers.... ok so train shadowpriest /lock = absolutely no damage or pressure from them = win that would make the classes abolsute trash clearly just have no idea when to break a fear and when not to. Only thing i do agree on is the fear path taken shouldn't LOS the caster so we can put more crap on you stuns dont break so why should fear when we have no ways to get at range from melee think about it !

  7. #107
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Lets just remove warlocks all together, shall we?
    While fear could use some changes, warlocks are currently in such a bad spot, and in 5.3 in an even worse spot, that making changes to their cc is not a good idea. Fear already is a fairly easily countered cc, I think there are currently a lot more important things going on that need to get fixed first.
    warlocks in a bad spot lol have you seen them in PVP there fucking op smacking 150k+ chaos bolts all the damn time and thats on geared people and if warlocks are so bad right now how come 2v2 is full of em and hunters and druids, if you think locks are bad this patch i suggest you play wow not the game your playing like rift or w,e has locks in it

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Frost Mages don't have DoTs - so the risk of Polymorph breaking on damage is "don't poly then ice lance your own sheep"
    Only bit that's really wrong - Nether Tempest.

    Isn't used by 100% of Mages, but it is used fairly often. Especially against melee cleave teams.

  9. #109
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    warlocks in a bad spot lol have you seen them in PVP there fucking op smacking 150k+ chaos bolts all the damn time and thats on geared people and if warlocks are so bad right now how come 2v2 is full of em and hunters and druids, if you think locks are bad this patch i suggest you play wow not the game your playing like rift or w,e has locks in it
    I shouldn't be doing this, but AHAHAHAHAHA.
    Sorry, but 150k chaos bolts just don't happen in arena unless the warlock has a PvE trinket and starts align, not to mention how ridiculous easy it is to interrupt it. Without full cooldowns and procs, chaos bolt hits barely hits harder than an ice lance..
    Just because a spec has the potential to trow in a big hit, it doesn't mean the spec is automatically good. When it comes to burst, there are several speces that are far more dangerous than a destruction warlock, frost mages being a prime example.

    Also http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/
    There are ~twice as many hunters and druids that do 2s than warlocks, your argument is invalid. Not that it even matters because 2s is not balanced at all, but guess what, we ain't doing much better in 3s as seen here http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukioish View Post
    can we talk about warlock's crazy burst instead? they can keep their fears.
    If you ain't using fear to set up crazy burst, you're playing wrong.

  11. #111
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    I shouldn't be doing this, but AHAHAHAHAHA.
    Sorry, but 150k chaos bolts just don't happen in arena unless the warlock has a PvE trinket and starts align, not to mention how ridiculous easy it is to interrupt it. Without full cooldowns and procs, chaos bolt hits barely hits harder than an ice lance..
    Just because a spec has the potential to trow in a big hit, it doesn't mean the spec is automatically good. When it comes to burst, there are several speces that are far more dangerous than a destruction warlock, frost mages being a prime example.

    Also http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/
    There are ~twice as many hunters and druids that do 2s than warlocks, your argument is invalid. Not that it even matters because 2s is not balanced at all, but guess what, we ain't doing much better in 3s as seen here http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html
    why do people like u think its just arena is classed as pvp, last time i checked there is rated and random bg's to, sorry but only special snowflakes care about arena ratings most ppl do it for the cap, and your a moderator also acting like that hope you get stripped of it for posting such garbage

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    Let's take a look at counters;

    - Druids and Warriors; Temporary fear immunity [and breaker]
    - Paladins; Bubble
    - Priests; Fear Ward
    - Locks; Singe Magic, Sacrificial Pact (a shield so not a breaker, but still a good spell to pop during a fear), Seduction autocast
    - DK's; Lichborne
    - Mages; Ice block
    - Forsaken; Will of the Forsaken
    - Humans; Every man for Himself

    So, basically, out of all that, pretty much everyone is covered
    You mean using 5 minute CD to counter spammable CC?
    And by this you consider every class covered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    So, basically, out of all that, pretty much everyone is covered (besides Shamans, I'm not sure if they've got anything to counter it and they can't be Undead or Human).
    Tremor Totem says hi.

  13. #113
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorth View Post
    Only bit that's really wrong - Nether Tempest.

    Isn't used by 100% of Mages, but it is used fairly often. Especially against melee cleave teams.
    Pretty much all top frost mages still run Frost Bomb to my knowledge, it's still way better for burst -it just doesn't feed you FoF procs for hopping around spamming ice lance.
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  14. #114
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    why do people like u think its just arena is classed as pvp, last time i checked there is rated and random bg's to, sorry but only special snowflakes care about arena ratings most ppl do it for the cap, and your a moderator also acting like that hope you get stripped of it for posting such garbage
    Blizzard doesn't balance classes around random battlegrounds and changes purely for RBG are very rare as well. The main balancing is done around 3s, deal with it. Just because you let a destruction warlock with cooldowns and berzerker buff run loose in a random battleground, it doesn't mean they are OP.
    And be honest now, all you are looking at is the damage of that one single hit. The fact that a warrior, a hunter, a rogue, a mage,... can do twice as much damage in the same period of time is something you are completely ignoring since they don't that hard, but what you ain't seeing is that they hit you multiple times in a very short window.

    And just saying, but weren't you the one that started about arena?

  15. #115
    This thread is shameful. No question fear needs adjustment, but so do fear breaks. Long story short, spammable fear maybe too good, Psychic Scream/Intimidating Roar not good enough with things like Tremor Totem/BR/Nimble Brew/Lichborne/Will/Fear Ward... being in game.

    I would be very, very surprised if Fear doesn't get adjustments, both in mechanics and counters, in 6.0. Or maybe I wouldn't, considering how MoP was supposed to reduce interrupts and CC in the first place ;/

  16. #116
    The only valid point you made is the bugginess. Especially on some bgs, feared through walls is annoying or feared behind a rock now you're stuck. Other than that, if they made some of the adjustments you want, they would just make fear not able to be dispelled and people would rage even more than ever.

  17. #117
    Don't nerf ma Turn Evil!!!!1

  18. #118
    Mechagnome
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    I'd like to see the pathing changed Dying/getting stuck because of a bad fear isn't fun.

    Tbh, I don't mind locks' fear. Priest fear though... zzzzzzz

  19. #119
    Dreadlord Castozor's Avatar
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    I still don't see any argument that prove/convince me hex>fear. Fear is either spam able or instant and AoE on a reasonable cd. Hex is non-spam able, single target and has a cast time except for one spec or a 1,5 minute cd, not too mention it's God aweful cd. Not to derail the thread, but people claiming fear is the weakest cc obviously have no clue in regards to the deplorable state of shaman cc and the abomination that is hex.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Pretty much all top frost mages still run Frost Bomb to my knowledge, it's still way better for burst -it just doesn't feed you FoF procs for hopping around spamming ice lance.
    you switch it out when you dont think you can get casts off.. some shammy teams / melee cleaves are it's really nice.

    there's also a bug that we abuse when you apply it [or refresh] on frozen targets it snapshots the crit chance (100%) so all ticks crit 100% for duration. that's what makes it a semi legit dot in addition to the procs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

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