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  1. #121
    I'll say it again since it's clearing going whooosh.

    FEAR IS NOT BREAKING ON DAMAGE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF TIME. THERE'S NO REASON FOR THIS. IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE EXPANSION. IT IS STILL HAPPENING NOW. AND IT IS STILL HAPPENING IN 5.3 PTR.

    Fear, for all intents and purposes, is a stun currently. Except spammable and lasting twice as long as most stuns.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 01:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Castozor View Post
    I still don't see any argument that prove/convince me hex>fear. Fear is either spam able or instant and AoE on a reasonable cd. Hex is non-spam able, single target and has a cast time except for one spec or a 1,5 minute cd, not too mention it's God aweful cd. Not to derail the thread, but people claiming fear is the weakest cc obviously have no clue in regards to the deplorable state of shaman cc and the abomination that is hex.
    Hex is right there next to freezing trap as a clunky silly CC. But, just like freezing trap, it is made all the more powerful by the rest of each of the classes' toolsets. And yes, that includes enhance and ele for shaman.

    But that still does not mean fear is weaker. Fear is BY FAR the strongest CC in the game bar none. It is effectively a polymorph that does not heal your target, does not break on damage and effectively peels your target off you. This is compounded further by the fact that there are many MANY more ways to fear your target than there is to CC your target in any other way.

    Despite the amount of fear breaks in the game I would argue there aren't nearly enough.
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  2. #122
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Fear needs to break faster on damage, other than that it's fine.

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  3. #123
    Fears that last for as long as 10 seconds are utterly ridiculous.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Fear needs to break faster on damage, other than that it's fine.
    I'd say all cc's need to break on any damage. CC should be used to either interrupt an ability (ie, silencing shot), or to positionally and mechanically take someone out of a fight. Make a system where a CC clears and overrides any dots seems like a pretty easy baseline to create in-game.

    To have a CC that basically allows free shots at a player while he can do nothing is.... well, kind of weak.
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  5. #125
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'd say all cc's need to break on any damage. CC should be used to either interrupt an ability (ie, silencing shot), or to positionally and mechanically take someone out of a fight. Make a system where a CC clears and overrides any dots seems like a pretty easy baseline to create in-game.

    To have a CC that basically allows free shots at a player while he can do nothing is.... well, kind of weak.
    A stun is CC too. It is designed not to break on damage.

    Certain CC needs to be able to take a little punch due to the way the class that uses it, or is ocasionally matched up with it, has dots that if removed would cause technical difficulties. However right now, it just takes too much to break certain cc's.

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  6. #126
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'd say all cc's need to break on any damage. CC should be used to either interrupt an ability (ie, silencing shot), or to positionally and mechanically take someone out of a fight. Make a system where a CC clears and overrides any dots seems like a pretty easy baseline to create in-game.

    To have a CC that basically allows free shots at a player while he can do nothing is.... well, kind of weak.
    If all CC wiped dots, and no CC broke on damage - DoT classes would be at a game-breaking disadvantage. A rogue (most non-feral melee, really) could empty their entire energy bar / good attacks into someone, then CC them and wait for their energy / good attacks to come off cooldown - then repeat. A frost mage would burst you, then CC you, wait for frost bomb to come back - then repeat.

    Think about what it would mean to any class that requires dots to be active, but particularly Locks / Shadow / Balance / Elemental / Feral / Arms - we would all spend the first many GCDs after a CC re-applying our dots, only then using our attacks - and once we engaged, it wouldn't be worth re-CC'ing someone for our cooldowns to come back up (particularly for the locks and shadow and balance) because our damage comes out relatively slow and steady - and isn't premised solely on <10 second cooldowns, like most melee / mages. That's why the classes that are highly reliant on DoTs get CC's that don't break instantly on damage (Fear, Root, Cyclone, Hex).

    Now, if what you mean to say is you want to remove all stuns from the game *wicked priest/lock grin* I'd be fine with that
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  7. #127
    Yeah, I agree that fear is over the top just because the pathing for it is ridiculous. It's one thing to get feared for a few seconds and take some damage. That is reasonable imo. But how many times do you get feared into another galaxy, 40+ yds away from your teammates or off the bridge on blade's edge and then behind a pillar out of los of your healer - and lose 50%+ of your hp in the process? It happens a lot.

    It's not just fear that needs to be changed though, it's almost every CC in the game. There is too much of it, every class has multiple types of cc and most of it is instant cast. I'm sure plenty of us have been victim to rogue stuns, if paralytic poison procs at the right time, you can be stunned for 12+ seconds. Just an example. This topic has been brought up plenty of times, but it just shows that it's a big issue in PVP atm.

    Some people think cc is fine and if they change it - no one would ever die. Other people think there is way too much cc and it ruins the fun of pvp.

    I think it all needs to be changed, but either way it won't be happening til next expansion - which probably won't be out for at least another year. So you might as well get used to it for now.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by lolpveisjokes View Post
    Basically this.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-04 at 04:30 AM ----------



    Can I ask you what class you play Vathius? Probably a hunter, rogue, or mage would be my guess
    Paladin and mage. Not breaking on set amount of damage is the main gripe. It is essentially a stun considering how long it lasts and how its spammable as someone pointed out above. We vsed a duo priest team yesterday and I was literally feared 70% of the time, the DR needs to be addressed as well.

    For fear to not break on damage it needs to have a longer CD.

  9. #129
    It's just annoying when Locks CS, Seduction, Seduction, Seduction, Fear, Fear, Fear, CS wait a second for DR on Seduction and do it again. Fear is annoying but Seduction is freaking 10 times more annoying.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    It's just annoying when Locks CS, Seduction, Seduction, Seduction, Fear, Fear, Fear, CS wait a second for DR on Seduction and do it again. Fear is annoying but Seduction is freaking 10 times more annoying.
    Seduction and Fear share the same DR.
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  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Seduction and Fear share the same DR.
    This made my day

    OT: I have to agree with someone elses comment about it being silly warriors complaining about fears. 30 second fear trinket, its almost as strong as blink. Then it also gives 6 sec immunity so you can ignore the psyfiend, and it gives more damage *sigh* -.-

    In my opinion fear should be able to last full duration if only full dots are the damage on target. Then you can exchange some of that dot damage threshold for some more damage but the fear would break early. But it should always be able to stay full duration even though there is dots on.

  12. #132
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vathius View Post
    We vsed a duo priest team yesterday and I was literally feared 70% of the time, the DR needs to be addressed as well.

    For fear to not break on damage it needs to have a longer CD.
    Psychic Scream is an 8 second fear with a 30 second cooldown, DR resets every ~20 seconds. The most effective way for them to chain fear you would be to Psy Scream (8 seconds)->Psy Scream(5 seconds), wait 3 seconds longer than the initial fears cooldown to reset DR (33 seconds apart) and then repeat: that's 39% uptime. Psyfiend could also be used, but since each of those cycles would put you pretty much at full DR it would be a pretty big waste (you could then be PsyTerror'd (Psyfiend's Fear) for 3 seconds, if Psyfiend actually bothered to sync up his fear (doesnt) - and always picked you as his target (doesnt).

    If you were 2v1'ing these Priests - I could maybe see all that happening if they were just out to screw with you (70% fear uptime is impossible, even for a lock): but if I were going to play Double Priest (for some bizarre reason) you should really be running Mind Control, not Psyfiend - since MC has a seperate DR at least - and 2x Psy Scream alone is going to put you close enough to Fear DR that Psyfiend would be a terrible choice. Even against enemy casters Void Tendrils would be a better call than Psyfiends - for rooting and LoS'ing to heal and/or let DoTs tick.

    As a mage or paladin, a) why are you letting priests get into melee with you repeatedly to chain fear, and b) where is your teammate while all this is occuring? I guess maybe if you were Ret you'd need to be in melee more often, but Holy Pal or Mage - that's entirely your fault.

    Also, to be clear - Fear's do break on damage, but either one or all of them are bugged it seems to not sometimes - I've had a fear land on me and not break for 70% of my health, Flaks and Verain have mentioned them as well before and I believe both of them - but I'm pretty confident it's a bug - and seems to occur around 10% of the time. Feel free to tweet GC about a possible fear bug with me, but don't make up silly claims, it's obviously intended to break on damage, and 70% fear uptime is impossible
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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'd say all cc's need to break on any damage. CC should be used to either interrupt an ability (ie, silencing shot), or to positionally and mechanically take someone out of a fight. Make a system where a CC clears and overrides any dots seems like a pretty easy baseline to create in-game.

    To have a CC that basically allows free shots at a player while he can do nothing is.... well, kind of weak.
    Well said...
    This is what CC should be about. taking someone out of the equation momentarily so as to apply pressure to their teammate or runaway or something etc, not to immoblise someone for so long while smashing their face in while they cant do nowt. All CC should break on any dmg, that would create a "skill based CC environment". OR when CC'd you take 0 damage.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Staalie View Post
    Here's how it goes:

    lock fears
    lock starts casting chaosbolt
    chaosbolt hits for 100k-ish
    people complain fear did not break on dmg as they lost 100k health.

    it's how it is. fear is weak, has always been counterable by a tremendous amount of abilities and has always pissed other people off

    Fear should be buffed, if anything (baseline howl please)
    Sure...as soon as I get an 3sec cast spell that does 1/3-1/4 of your health that wont break polymorph

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    Sure...as soon as I get an 3sec cast spell that does 1/3-1/4 of your health that wont break polymorph
    Unless I'm mistaken, you are a snow mage, you can burst away 70% of someone his health in a deep...

  16. #136
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    Sure...as soon as I get an 3sec cast spell that does 1/3-1/4 of your health that wont break polymorph
    O.O

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  17. #137
    do mages still have spells they cast??? only thing I see mages cast is portals and cookie tables hehe, oh and a mount cast after they've globalled someone..

  18. #138
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Nah, if a lock shadowbolts into a fear it might do crazy damage, but it will break. That case is fine.

    What is not fine is having simple dots take more than 100k of your health and fear still going strong.
    Fear should break on about 60k damage, and if current live dots reach that so fast all the time.. Guess what needs to be nerfed?

    I've actually been taken 80% to dead after leaving an arena versus a lock before.. In 10 seconds and solely from dots. That's dumb.

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  19. #139
    Just have your healer dispel it. Or tremor it. Or interrupt it. Or Zerker Rage it. Or Lichborne it. Pretty much everything counters fear... So I'm guessing you already "fixed" your issues with it.

    It's the stuns and interrupts that need fixing, not the regular CC.

  20. #140
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owain glyndwr View Post
    Well said...
    This is what CC should be about. taking someone out of the equation momentarily so as to apply pressure to their teammate or runaway or something etc, not to immoblise someone for so long while smashing their face in while they cant do nowt. All CC should break on any dmg, that would create a "skill based CC environment". OR when CC'd you take 0 damage.
    Apparently you weren't around for vanilla, so I'll walk you through why rogues could kill anyone in the game 1v1, while naked.

    Stealth
    Cheap Shot or Garrote (Garrote for Mages)
    Stab until energy is consumed or CC is worn off
    Gouge
    Wait for energy to fully regenerate
    kidney shot
    stab until energy is consumed or kidney shot is over
    blind
    wait for full energy
    restealth
    repeat from top until your opponent is dead, if you run out of CC to use while you regenerate energy - vanish and wait for cooldowns to return long before whatever your opponent used to survive all that

    pretty much all melee, mages, ele shamans, and non-affliction locks would be able to do the above as well - given what you are proposing.

    Now picture the same scenario, but you are a shadowpriest, aff lock, feral, balance, uh dk, or potentially warrior (deep wounds).

    Apply DoTs
    CC
    Dots Break your CC, or CC wipes your DoTs

    DoT classes would be at a game-breaking disadvantage in such a world. Not to mention - can you imagine how terrible the PvP would be in a world where the game consists entirely of rogues / rets bursting you, CCing you until their resources / cooldowns are back, bursting you, CC"ing you until their cooldowns are back ad infinitum? I'd quit overnight (and I'm a fanboy).

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 09:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    What is not fine is having simple dots take more than 100k of your health and fear still going strong.
    Fear should break on about 60k damage, and if current live dots reach that so fast all the time.. Guess what needs to be nerfed?

    I've actually been taken 80% to dead after leaving an arena versus a lock before.. In 10 seconds and solely from dots. That's dumb.
    O.o My spriests DoTs tick for like 5k on a geared opponent, my locks obviously do more - and affliction has more DoT effects it can apply - but even still I can't imagine how you'd take 80% of what must be 400k+ health, or 320k damage from full Affliction DoTs. Now, my Unholy DK has had 15k tick (30k crit) DoTs pretty regularly - but DKs don't have Fear - so.... I'm skeptical.
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