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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post

    Quick question: Why should an AoE fear effect with no cast time require more % to break than a single-target effect with a cast time?
    Because it has other flaws to offset those things, such as melee range(big one for a caster) and 30 second CD.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    Because it has other flaws to offset those things, such as melee range(big one for a caster) and 30 second CD.
    Not really a big one for a caster. It's used as a self-peel. So let me see... they said Psychic should break after 25% of my life? No way, rofl. I shouldn't die a 4th of the way because I was punching my target and he used his peel. Fear should just break on any non-dot damage. It's not like dot teams are prevalent right now anyway, Blizzard doesn't seem to like that anymore because of its PvE implications.

    Edit: Also, they should find some way to have it detect a chaos bolt about to land or somthing, or make the chaos bolt fly faster. It's pretty dumb when my teammate can chaos bolt fear conflag chaos bolt and have the guy die from like 60% when he's got a full set of malv/tyrannical.

    Other than that, I would say the problem from fear stems with how most classes work now, for instance... Devouring Plague and such are hard hits and if the priest is smart will drop it on you when you have scurried like 30 yards away and do his burst, so the fear breaks with you at like 75% and taking insanity to the face.
    Last edited by Valedus; 2013-05-07 at 04:57 PM.

  3. #163
    Kind of a general reply to people in this thread:

    1. Druids haven't had a Fear Immunity/Breaker since Berserk still granted Fear Immunity/Break. That change happened in the Cata pre-patch I believe. Even then only 1/3 Druid specs had the ability back then.

    2. Druids can remove Hex since it's considered a curse (Poison+Curse baseline, +Magic as Resto). Wasn't aware that Paladins could remove curses as I thought they were just Poison+Disease (+Magic if Holy).

    Was some other stuff but people already addressed them.

  4. #164
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    Let's take a look at counters;

    - Druids and Warriors; Temporary fear immunity [and breaker]
    - Paladins; Bubble
    - Priests; Fear Ward
    - Locks; Singe Magic, Sacrificial Pact (a shield so not a breaker, but still a good spell to pop during a fear), Seduction autocast
    - DK's; Lichborne
    - Mages; Ice block
    - Forsaken; Will of the Forsaken
    - Humans; Every man for Himself

    So, basically, out of all that, pretty much everyone is covered (besides Shamans, I'm not sure if they've got anything to counter it and they can't be Undead or Human).
    Shamans have Tremor Totem, an AoE fear breaker.
    Of all classes, Hunters are the only ones lacking a reliable non-trinket fear breaker/preventer, and are the only ones doubly effected by it if BM.

    That being said, Fear isnt broken. It just needs to have the glyph baked in and all will be well.
    No need to have people zooming across the map, through walls, and under the world to their death by accident. In fact, ALL CC should no longer cause the target to move, polymorph and Scatter Shot included.
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  5. #165
    Fear breaks on damage, you just don't realize it because you don't see anything except the target's health bar wich you're tunneling, that's all, or because Affliction damage is pure garbage and it takes like 8 seconds (wich is how long Fear lasts) to actually hit the treshold.

    Sure Fear is annoying when it bugs you through pillars or anything simillar, but a 9 page (so far) QQ thread about an ability wich is like the last issue in the current PvP state is pathetic... Them Warlocks dominating 3v3 bracket with their overpowered fears, overpowered damage and probably the best of all (lol OP) "OVERPOWERED TANKING ABILITIES".

    Get a damn clue, people.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Kind of a general reply to people in this thread:

    1. Druids haven't had a Fear Immunity/Breaker since Berserk still granted Fear Immunity/Break. That change happened in the Cata pre-patch I believe. Even then only 1/3 Druid specs had the ability back then.

    2. Druids can remove Hex since it's considered a curse (Poison+Curse baseline, +Magic as Resto). Wasn't aware that Paladins could remove curses as I thought they were just Poison+Disease (+Magic if Holy).

    Was some other stuff but people already addressed them.
    Paladins can't remove curses, only mages and druids can, I believe.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 03:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    Shamans have Tremor Totem, an AoE fear breaker.
    Of all classes, Hunters are the only ones lacking a reliable non-trinket fear breaker/preventer, and are the only ones doubly effected by it if BM.

    That being said, Fear isnt broken. It just needs to have the glyph baked in and all will be well.
    No need to have people zooming across the map, through walls, and under the world to their death by accident. In fact, ALL CC should no longer cause the target to move, polymorph and Scatter Shot included.
    How is Bestial Wrath not a fear breaker?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 03:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    Fear breaks on damage, you just don't realize it because you don't see anything except the target's health bar wich you're tunneling, that's all, or because Affliction damage is pure garbage and it takes like 8 seconds (wich is how long Fear lasts) to actually hit the treshold.

    Sure Fear is annoying when it bugs you through pillars or anything simillar, but a 9 page (so far) QQ thread about an ability wich is like the last issue in the current PvP state is pathetic... Them Warlocks dominating 3v3 bracket with their overpowered fears, overpowered damage and probably the best of all (lol OP) "OVERPOWERED TANKING ABILITIES".

    Get a damn clue, people.
    What are you talking about? 90% of people play with addons that put their health bar in the middle of the screen. Affliction damage is garbage because they need to malefic. If you fear someone and still cannot malefic, I don't know what to tell you. Why do you think nobody really plays Affliction right now unless it is a CC heavy team?

    People are not complaining about it with Afflic locks. People are complaining about getting Devo Plague -> Instant Mind Blast -> Insanity'd and having it not break until the insanity starts, or Chaos bolt hitting you while feared and having it do 25% of your health.

    You laugh about Lock tanking abilities, but DA locks are being used in some RBG teams right now, and will be the go to flag carrier next patch. What does a DA lock have to compare to prot classes?

    Both have shield walls.
    DA locks have self absorb shields = active mitigation
    Plate armor + damage reduction(especially magic damage reduction, because most teams run 4-5 casters.)
    Demonic Leap = Heroic Leap/Blink effect.
    Demonic Circle (better than warrior mobility assuming you are in the base)
    Locks have Dark Regen-> Health stone combo. Something like ~85% of your health + extra healing received.
    Howl/Shadowfury = Shockwave

    Burning Rush is arguably stronger than Charging, depending on the situation.

    So yeah, overpowered tanking abilities. I understand they cannot do it while they do damage, but they ARE able to swap in and out of it and being a normal Demo Lock. They also reforge the same as a Destro Lock, so in non-FC maps they are stronger than a warrior by far.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Not really a big one for a caster. It's used as a self-peel. So let me see... they said Psychic should break after 25% of my life? No way, rofl. I shouldn't die a 4th of the way because I was punching my target and he used his peel. Fear should just break on any non-dot damage. It's not like dot teams are prevalent right now anyway, Blizzard doesn't seem to like that anymore because of its PvE implications.
    Melee's have gap-closers, its way easier for a warrior to land his fear on a ranged than a priest. Think of it as scream being as bad vs ranged as fear with its cast time is vs melee. If you use it as a self-peel the melee will just get dispelled instant or use one of their fear-breakers like usual. You want to fear the ranged, pref all of the team but that is very hard vs a competent ranged, especially pillar hump healers unless you run up to them while they are already CCd.

    As for 25%, it wasnt my number and i don't know what would suffice, i was just defending the crap you're pulling about scream being so OP compared to the normal fear.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    Melee's have gap-closers, its way easier for a warrior to land his fear on a ranged than a priest. Think of it as scream being as bad vs ranged as fear with its cast time is vs melee. If you use it as a self-peel the melee will just get dispelled instant or use one of their fear-breakers like usual. You want to fear the ranged, pref all of the team but that is very hard vs a competent ranged, especially pillar hump healers unless you run up to them while they are already CCd.

    As for 25%, it wasnt my number and i don't know what would suffice, i was just defending the crap you're pulling about scream being so OP compared to the normal fear.
    Love the "they'll use a fear breaker" like every melee has a fear break. When did I ever say scream was OP compared to normal fear? lol. I never said that. Dem words in my mouth.

  9. #169
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Love the "they'll use a fear breaker" like every melee has a fear break. When did I ever say scream was OP compared to normal fear? lol. I never said that. Dem words in my mouth.
    The important melee to worry about generally do. Warriors and DKs are practically immune to fear. Most rogues know how to use cloak to avoid psy screams and etc. Like 80% of the top 100 teams are double or triple undead (double if they have a shaman who can't be undead, but he has tremor totem).
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-05-08 at 03:14 AM.
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  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    Because it has other flaws to offset those things, such as melee range(big one for a caster) and 30 second CD.
    That's... Kind of my point. Fear can be cast at range, but it has a cast time so it can be interrupted, and it also only works on one target. Psychic Scream is instant and AoE, but it has a cooldown and only works in melee range. They both have pretty well-balanced pros and cons already, I don't see why throwing a higher break threshold on one is necessary.
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  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    You laugh about Lock tanking abilities, but DA locks are being used in some RBG teams right now, and will be the go to flag carrier next patch. What does a DA lock have to compare to prot classes?

    Both have shield walls.
    DA locks have self absorb shields = active mitigation
    Plate armor + damage reduction(especially magic damage reduction, because most teams run 4-5 casters.)
    Demonic Leap = Heroic Leap/Blink effect.
    Demonic Circle (better than warrior mobility assuming you are in the base)
    Locks have Dark Regen-> Health stone combo. Something like ~85% of your health + extra healing received.
    Howl/Shadowfury = Shockwave

    Burning Rush is arguably stronger than Charging, depending on the situation.

    So yeah, overpowered tanking abilities. I understand they cannot do it while they do damage, but they ARE able to swap in and out of it and being a normal Demo Lock. They also reforge the same as a Destro Lock, so in non-FC maps they are stronger than a warrior by far.
    Just going to hop on this...

    Fury ward, a 70k absorb shield. While it only has a 10 sec cooldown, the downside is the ridiculous cost of 200 fury. With fury generation being highly dependent on landing spells and pet damage, it's fairly easy to cripple fury generation by simply killing the pet ( and imps ) and trowing stuns and silences on the warlock.
    A DA warlock with no fury can't teleport away nor leap away, can't use his shield nor knock back/interrupt, no auras, no sleep... All these abilities cost fury, and all you need to do to stop it is quickly killing that pet (and imps) and preventing that warlock from casting too much, which is fairly easy if you are attacking with a group.

    Also, dark regen + hearthstone combo, with a mortal strike effect up, is currently slightly less then 50% health, will be even less in 5.3.

    As for the damage reduction, it's all fairly equal to warriors in defensive stance, death knights in blood presence, etc... In terms of magic damage reduction, they are below disc priests which have about 35% reduction.

    So technically, DA warlocks work but once they get low on fury with their fury generation crippled they are useless.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Taros View Post
    Fear is already the weakest cc in the game.
    LOL. Most uneducated comment I have seen in a long time.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Just going to hop on this...

    Fury ward, a 70k absorb shield. While it only has a 10 sec cooldown, the downside is the ridiculous cost of 200 fury. With fury generation being highly dependent on landing spells and pet damage, it's fairly easy to cripple fury generation by simply killing the pet ( and imps ) and trowing stuns and silences on the warlock.
    A DA warlock with no fury can't teleport away nor leap away, can't use his shield nor knock back/interrupt, no auras, no sleep... All these abilities cost fury, and all you need to do to stop it is quickly killing that pet (and imps) and preventing that warlock from casting too much, which is fairly easy if you are attacking with a group.

    Also, dark regen + hearthstone combo, with a mortal strike effect up, is currently slightly less then 50% health, will be even less in 5.3.

    As for the damage reduction, it's all fairly equal to warriors in defensive stance, death knights in blood presence, etc... In terms of magic damage reduction, they are below disc priests which have about 35% reduction.

    So technically, DA warlocks work but once they get low on fury with their fury generation crippled they are useless.
    That being said, many tanks in PvP do not get to use their active mitigation as much. You shouldn't get fury starved from just demonic circle and leaping and such.

  14. #174
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    The issue with fear is the movements when you get feared under water..it's so annoying. for example yesterday I was playing an RBG battle of Gilneas...I was fighting against a warlock 1 vs 1 in waterworks preventing him from capping the flag but then he feared me toward the water which my character run toward the water as if it was a land then when it break off I had to swim and jump which is way slower than running..which was already too late he capped the flag..(didn't have bubble or trinket since I used them against a mage earlier).

    This is the problem with fear at the moment in my opinion.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    The issue with fear is the movements when you get feared under water..it's so annoying. for example yesterday I was playing an RBG battle of Gilneas...I was fighting against a warlock 1 vs 1 in waterworks preventing him from capping the flag but then he feared me toward the water which my character run toward the water as if it was a land then when it break off I had to swim and jump which is way slower than running..which was already too late he capped the flag..(didn't have bubble or trinket since I used them against a mage earlier).

    This is the problem with fear at the moment in my opinion.
    Arent you more pissed off at rogues then? If you didnt have bubble or trinket they would just sap and blind you to get the flag aswell. Any cc with 8 sec allows ninja capping. I can agree its iritating with where you go but in this situation he would have capped it with a full fear regardless of where you turned up after it.

  16. #176
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    Arent you more pissed off at rogues then? If you didnt have bubble or trinket they would just sap and blind you to get the flag aswell. Any cc with 8 sec allows ninja capping. I can agree its iritating with where you go but in this situation he would have capped it with a full fear regardless of where you turned up after it.
    Yeah I know that but I wasnt complaining about the 8 secs cc in general... I was specifically commenting on how fear has a lot of bugs including random falling from the world dying and stuff.
    Last edited by Velshin; 2013-05-09 at 10:58 AM.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Svarbald View Post
    LOL. Most uneducated comment I have seen in a long time.
    Thats really meta of you, cause I thought the same.

    How is fear stronger than instant stuns that do not break or pom poly's. Fears are annoying yes, but you actually need to be able to play to get em off against melee. Theres not many good locks left, if you think fears so bad go play a warlock now and youll go running back to your rogue or unholy dk in no time.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    Arent you more pissed off at rogues then? If you didnt have bubble or trinket they would just sap and blind you to get the flag aswell. Any cc with 8 sec allows ninja capping. I can agree its iritating with where you go but in this situation he would have capped it with a full fear regardless of where you turned up after it.
    To be fair though, a Rogue can't Sap you and knock you into the water with it. Also, in RBGs people know not to stand directly on the flag if you are solo defending with a Rogue on the other team. Standing off the flag allows you to get out of Sap before a Rogue can cap.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorehowl View Post
    died to a warlock...TO THE FORUMSSSSSS


    also, your fix ideas are pretty bad seeing as fear is already pretty poo
    100% dis.

    I play lock and fear is gash, ultimate gash, it's just worthless. It's getting to the point where it's just being used as an interupt if you just happen to be casting it when your target attempts to cast.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by impfernal View Post
    Thats really meta of you, cause I thought the same.

    How is fear stronger than instant stuns that do not break or pom poly's. Fears are annoying yes, but you actually need to be able to play to get em off against melee. Theres not many good locks left, if you think fears so bad go play a warlock now and youll go running back to your rogue or unholy dk in no time.
    the last part may be true , but fear is a really strong cc if you use it right. the only thing that annoys me is people claiming it doesn't break from dmg..outside of the psy-fiend bug i dont think this happens, and i dont trust the majority of the posters here to give accurate, non-biased accounts of their experiences, so its a pointless debate really.

    i've never had a problem with fear.. even on my rogue or feral. i know when its coming.. i know how to pre cloak it / shadow meld it, i know when to trink it and when not to, i know when its going to be DR'd.. etc etc. fear is never a surprise to me so its not frustrating. i think that's more the issue with most players and they're distorting the spell into this unstoppable cc atom-bomb out of ignorance when its not, it's really nothing to .... fear [ouch ].

    can't wait to see more from this amazing thread.

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