Fear - Something must be done.

[Yvaelle]

The following specs can de-magic/poly immune:
- Healers
- Druids
- Shadowpriests

The following specs can de-curse (Hex):
- Shamans
- Mages
- Paladins

The following specs can de-magic/fear break:
- All healers
- All Undead
- Warriors
- Shamans
- Priests
- Death Knights
- Monks
- Paladins

Also, regarding Hex breaking on damage, it breaks on twice the damage that the easier-breaking fears break on. Outside of MLS and Shatterplay, not many serious comps combine two of Mage/Druid/Paladin - which means so long as you are willing to always throw your Hex on the de-curser, it should always go full duration. Similarly, so long as you throw your Poly's on the enemy healer or Spriest (if both are present) it should always go full duration. How many Fears do you think go full duration in MoP? Maybe as much as half? Maybe more like a third?

The healing factor on Polymorph isn't a concern to frost mages, they aren't a pressure class - when they set up their CC, given the comps they play - they can burst a full-health opponent down. By contrast, Affliction and Shadow are reliant on getting a target low before they go for a kill - if fears healed people then pretty much every pressure comp out there wouldn't work (with the exception of Spicy Chicken, which is the only pressure comp without a fear class).

Frost Mages don't have DoTs - so the risk of Polymorph breaking on damage is "don't poly then ice lance your own sheep" - where as DoT classes (warriors included, via rend/deep wounds) would automatically break their own CC if Fears didn't absorb some damage: the balance is in finding a value where you can still Psy Scream / Intimidating Shout / Howl of Terror / Fear (as a peel) without it instantly breaking, and without it becoming a semi-stun effect. Classes which are totally reliant on DoTs need CC's that don't break instantaneously on damage - for the same reason, Balance and Ferals get Roots and Cyclones - neither of which break instantly on damage either. If a mage breaks his own poly, it's his mis-play in attacking something he just CC'd - if he's playing with a class that has DoTs, he has a glyph to wipe DoTs on application.

The damage that fear absorbs is random, it should be a fixed value (ie. 10% of max health) - and should be equal for all fear effects (it's not). The real thing that people hate about fear though isn't that it absorbs DoT ticks, it's that it fears you into dumb places - all fears should cause targets to tremble, rather than running around blindly. Lastly, there are probably too many ways to break fear at this point, but that should probably only be looked at after the first two things are adjusted.

[Guldur]

Its currently okay and was bad during some time in some expansions, nothing broken with it now, you can save yourself from it quite easily as has already been posted..

[Coldhearth]

Fear is fine. It's just the absolutely ridiculous fear pathing that needs to be fixed.

[Deleted]

Hang on so fear doesnt break on damage how would a shadowpriest ever get dots off against any melee who all have fear breakers.... ok so train shadowpriest /lock = absolutely no damage or pressure from them = win that would make the classes abolsute trash clearly just have no idea when to break a fear and when not to. Only thing i do agree on is the fear path taken shouldn't LOS the caster so we can put more crap on you stuns dont break so why should fear when we have no ways to get at range from melee think about it !

[Deleted]

Lets just remove warlocks all together, shall we?
While fear could use some changes, warlocks are currently in such a bad spot, and in 5.3 in an even worse spot, that making changes to their cc is not a good idea. Fear already is a fairly easily countered cc, I think there are currently a lot more important things going on that need to get fixed first.

warlocks in a bad spot lol have you seen them in PVP there fucking op smacking 150k+ chaos bolts all the damn time and thats on geared people and if warlocks are so bad right now how come 2v2 is full of em and hunters and druids, if you think locks are bad this patch i suggest you play wow not the game your playing like rift or w,e has locks in it

[Scorth]

Frost Mages don't have DoTs - so the risk of Polymorph breaking on damage is "don't poly then ice lance your own sheep"

Only bit that's really wrong - Nether Tempest.

Isn't used by 100% of Mages, but it is used fairly often. Especially against melee cleave teams.

[Nicola]

warlocks in a bad spot lol have you seen them in PVP there fucking op smacking 150k+ chaos bolts all the damn time and thats on geared people and if warlocks are so bad right now how come 2v2 is full of em and hunters and druids, if you think locks are bad this patch i suggest you play wow not the game your playing like rift or w,e has locks in it

I shouldn't be doing this, but AHAHAHAHAHA.
Sorry, but 150k chaos bolts just don't happen in arena unless the warlock has a PvE trinket and starts align, not to mention how ridiculous easy it is to interrupt it. Without full cooldowns and procs, chaos bolt hits barely hits harder than an ice lance..
Just because a spec has the potential to trow in a big hit, it doesn't mean the spec is automatically good. When it comes to burst, there are several speces that are far more dangerous than a destruction warlock, frost mages being a prime example.

Also http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/
There are ~twice as many hunters and druids that do 2s than warlocks, your argument is invalid. Not that it even matters because 2s is not balanced at all, but guess what, we ain't doing much better in 3s as seen here http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html

[Reith]

can we talk about warlock's crazy burst instead? they can keep their fears.

If you ain't using fear to set up crazy burst, you're playing wrong.

[Deleted]

I shouldn't be doing this, but AHAHAHAHAHA.
Sorry, but 150k chaos bolts just don't happen in arena unless the warlock has a PvE trinket and starts align, not to mention how ridiculous easy it is to interrupt it. Without full cooldowns and procs, chaos bolt hits barely hits harder than an ice lance..
Just because a spec has the potential to trow in a big hit, it doesn't mean the spec is automatically good. When it comes to burst, there are several speces that are far more dangerous than a destruction warlock, frost mages being a prime example.

Also http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/
There are ~twice as many hunters and druids that do 2s than warlocks, your argument is invalid. Not that it even matters because 2s is not balanced at all, but guess what, we ain't doing much better in 3s as seen here http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html

why do people like u think its just arena is classed as pvp, last time i checked there is rated and random bg's to, sorry but only special snowflakes care about arena ratings most ppl do it for the cap, and your a moderator also acting like that hope you get stripped of it for posting such garbage

[Deleted]

Let's take a look at counters;

- Druids and Warriors; Temporary fear immunity [and breaker]
- Paladins; Bubble
- Priests; Fear Ward
- Locks; Singe Magic, Sacrificial Pact (a shield so not a breaker, but still a good spell to pop during a fear), Seduction autocast
- DK's; Lichborne
- Mages; Ice block
- Forsaken; Will of the Forsaken
- Humans; Every man for Himself

So, basically, out of all that, pretty much everyone is covered

You mean using 5 minute CD to counter spammable CC?
And by this you consider every class covered?

So, basically, out of all that, pretty much everyone is covered (besides Shamans, I'm not sure if they've got anything to counter it and they can't be Undead or Human).

Tremor Totem says hi.

[Yvaelle]

Only bit that's really wrong - Nether Tempest.

Isn't used by 100% of Mages, but it is used fairly often. Especially against melee cleave teams.

Pretty much all top frost mages still run Frost Bomb to my knowledge, it's still way better for burst -it just doesn't feed you FoF procs for hopping around spamming ice lance.

[Nicola]

why do people like u think its just arena is classed as pvp, last time i checked there is rated and random bg's to, sorry but only special snowflakes care about arena ratings most ppl do it for the cap, and your a moderator also acting like that hope you get stripped of it for posting such garbage

Blizzard doesn't balance classes around random battlegrounds and changes purely for RBG are very rare as well. The main balancing is done around 3s, deal with it. Just because you let a destruction warlock with cooldowns and berzerker buff run loose in a random battleground, it doesn't mean they are OP.
And be honest now, all you are looking at is the damage of that one single hit. The fact that a warrior, a hunter, a rogue, a mage,... can do twice as much damage in the same period of time is something you are completely ignoring since they don't that hard, but what you ain't seeing is that they hit you multiple times in a very short window.

And just saying, but weren't you the one that started about arena?

[Venaliter]

This thread is shameful. No question fear needs adjustment, but so do fear breaks. Long story short, spammable fear maybe too good, Psychic Scream/Intimidating Roar not good enough with things like Tremor Totem/BR/Nimble Brew/Lichborne/Will/Fear Ward... being in game.

I would be very, very surprised if Fear doesn't get adjustments, both in mechanics and counters, in 6.0. Or maybe I wouldn't, considering how MoP was supposed to reduce interrupts and CC in the first place ;/

[liljc711]

The only valid point you made is the bugginess. Especially on some bgs, feared through walls is annoying or feared behind a rock now you're stuck. Other than that, if they made some of the adjustments you want, they would just make fear not able to be dispelled and people would rage even more than ever.

[Faenskap]

I'd like to see the pathing changed Dying/getting stuck because of a bad fear isn't fun.

Tbh, I don't mind locks' fear. Priest fear though... zzzzzzz

[Deleted]

I still don't see any argument that prove/convince me hex>fear. Fear is either spam able or instant and AoE on a reasonable cd. Hex is non-spam able, single target and has a cast time except for one spec or a 1,5 minute cd, not too mention it's God aweful cd. Not to derail the thread, but people claiming fear is the weakest cc obviously have no clue in regards to the deplorable state of shaman cc and the abomination that is hex.

[Lulbalance]

Pretty much all top frost mages still run Frost Bomb to my knowledge, it's still way better for burst -it just doesn't feed you FoF procs for hopping around spamming ice lance.

you switch it out when you dont think you can get casts off.. some shammy teams / melee cleaves are it's really nice.

there's also a bug that we abuse when you apply it [or refresh] on frozen targets it snapshots the crit chance (100%) so all ticks crit 100% for duration. that's what makes it a semi legit dot in addition to the procs.

[Flaks]

I'll say it again since it's clearing going whooosh.

FEAR IS NOT BREAKING ON DAMAGE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF TIME. THERE'S NO REASON FOR THIS. IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE EXPANSION. IT IS STILL HAPPENING NOW. AND IT IS STILL HAPPENING IN 5.3 PTR.

Fear, for all intents and purposes, is a stun currently. Except spammable and lasting twice as long as most stuns.

---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 01:47 AM ----------

I still don't see any argument that prove/convince me hex>fear. Fear is either spam able or instant and AoE on a reasonable cd. Hex is non-spam able, single target and has a cast time except for one spec or a 1,5 minute cd, not too mention it's God aweful cd. Not to derail the thread, but people claiming fear is the weakest cc obviously have no clue in regards to the deplorable state of shaman cc and the abomination that is hex.

Hex is right there next to freezing trap as a clunky silly CC. But, just like freezing trap, it is made all the more powerful by the rest of each of the classes' toolsets. And yes, that includes enhance and ele for shaman.

But that still does not mean fear is weaker. Fear is BY FAR the strongest CC in the game bar none. It is effectively a polymorph that does not heal your target, does not break on damage and effectively peels your target off you. This is compounded further by the fact that there are many MANY more ways to fear your target than there is to CC your target in any other way.

Despite the amount of fear breaks in the game I would argue there aren't nearly enough.

[Evolixe]

Fear needs to break faster on damage, other than that it's fine.

[Deleted]

Fears that last for as long as 10 seconds are utterly ridiculous.