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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I wouldn't exactly call waiting a year 'getting an account back any time'

    And, obviously, I imagine the amnesty system could only be used once per battle.net account.
    From the way you keep harping on others who disagree with you, it seems you must have had an account perma-banned. Well, that is the penalty for not following the rules. You lost the account, why should they give it back to you at a later date? It wasn't their fault you could not follow the simple rules they laid out in the ToU and EULA.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  2. #102
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatspriest View Post
    From the way you keep harping on others who disagree with you, it seems you must have had an account perma-banned. Well, that is the penalty for not following the rules. You lost the account, why should they give it back to you at a later date? It wasn't their fault you could not follow the simple rules they laid out in the ToU and EULA.
    I do have an account that was banned. And it's detailed earlier in the thread. It's honestly debatable if -I- broke any rules, however this discussion isn't about me, or my situation.

    They wouldn't be 'giving' the account back. Paying restitution and proving to be a proper member of the community however, yes.
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  3. #103
    As much as I'd love my t3, Atiesh, ZG mounts and Gladiator BC mounts back...I feel as if some people really deserve what happens to them. Not getting into why I was banned but I know some people deserve punishments and won't learn if they can get it back.
    Bleh

  4. #104
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    it looks like most of your opinions on this issue are based on a lot of ignorance and false information.
    What false information, exactly?
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It has my first characters, and some items that no longer exist anymore, mainly.
    Given the conditions you supplied I suppose it would be OK for a second chance. Mess that up though and it's done forever.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by catbeef View Post
    everyone giving a flat out no are the people who believe every single person found guilty in a court of law actually committed the crime.

    everyone makes mistakes, including the justice disher-outers, detectives, investigators, etc. it is part of being human.
    See and everyone is allowed to make mistakes. How often I have been calling out people for what they are and received warnings and I am still not permabanned. I was in one of those guilds that exploited on a Bossencounter. No perma ban.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I wouldn't exactly call waiting a year 'getting an account back any time'

    And, obviously, I imagine the amnesty system could only be used once per battle.net account.
    Ok, I see where you are getting at though I still think the criteria could be more harsh.

  8. #108
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    What would Blizzard gain from doing that ? I see only drawbacks from their perspective:
    -that would be a clear message to all kind of offenders that perma ban is a joke
    -that would put extra work on their hands
    -for no profit for them, you're still paying anyway
    -legit players would be pissed, game is infested with botters, dupers etc, and they're allowing old ones that got cough to come back ?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbeef View Post
    everyone giving a flat out no are the people who believe every single person found guilty in a court of law actually committed the crime.

    everyone makes mistakes, including the justice disher-outers, detectives, investigators, etc. it is part of being human.
    I guess you missed the part where I have said I had an account banned... and I say NO, Hell NO.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 02:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I do have an account that was banned. And it's detailed earlier in the thread. It's honestly debatable if -I- broke any rules, however this discussion isn't about me, or my situation.

    They wouldn't be 'giving' the account back. Paying restitution and proving to be a proper member of the community however, yes.
    Whats debateable about your situation... you used an emulator that blocked out Warden... True or False?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 02:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Given the conditions you supplied I suppose it would be OK for a second chance. Mess that up though and it's done forever.
    Whats wrong with using the appeal process that already exists? Certainly if he's been an upstanding member as he claims and the infraction isn't really worthy of a perma-ban wont they lift it? Why open pandora's box with the method he's advocating?

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  10. #110
    arent u given 2-3 chances b4 being permanetly banned???? - just saying if u do break the rules, are found out your given plenty of chances to mend your wys, if u decide to continue to break the rules then a ban is the final option which is your fault in the end

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togarox View Post
    Ok, I see where you are getting at though I still think the criteria could be more harsh.
    The criteria could certainly be more harsh. I was simply making suggestions.
    -3 year no infractions
    -$50 fee + Update to newest expansions + at least 1-2 months game time
    -All gold/boes stripped from old account
    -Possibly prevention of AH/Trade use for 3 months on old account (sort of like a starter/free account)

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 12:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sznur View Post
    -that would be a clear message to all kind of offenders that perma ban is a joke
    A legitimate concern.
    -that would put extra work on their hands
    -for no profit for them, you're still paying anyway
    There would definitely need to be monetary compensation, enough to offset both the work involved on blizzard's end, + profit

    -legit players would be pissed, game is infested with botters, dupers etc, and they're allowing old ones that got cough to come back ?
    No. This is already addressed. Anyone previously banned would need an already active, clean account. If they were going to bot/dupe again, they would have already done it without reactivating the old account.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 12:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by btf View Post
    arent u given 2-3 chances b4 being permanetly banned????
    Sometimes, but sometimes not. Statistics wise, more people are permabanned up front (usually for botting/duping) than warned. Warning is usually reserved for griefing/language problems.
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  12. #112
    First, I have had an account banned. Back in Wrath. It had all the collectors editions on it up to that point. I did something stupid and boom gone. Would I like that account back? Of course. Does it deserve to stay permabanned. Yes. In fact, it actually says that if you are permabanned you are supposed to uninstall and not create a new account. I really don't think any kind of amnesty or any other kind of system to potentially allow these accounts back would work.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbeef View Post
    everyone giving a flat out no are the people who believe every single person found guilty in a court of law actually committed the crime.

    everyone makes mistakes, including the justice disher-outers, detectives, investigators, etc. it is part of being human.
    We're NOT talking about justice murder (wrongful conviction) here.. We're talking about "people who have broken the rules and received a punishment"..

    Justice Murder does happen, and they will receive a pardon, if evidence proves it.
    But people serving a life sentense (or wow perma ban) should NEVER enjoy sunlight again...
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Whats debateable about your situation... you used an emulator that blocked out Warden... True or False?
    It's not cut/dry as that. "Blocking Warden" is nowhere in the ToS. So blocking it without knowing it's blocked is impossible to tell. Can you tell me if your system blocks Archon from being used for sure?

    And furthermore, doing something intentionally is much different from doing something unintentionally, or not even knowing it existed.

    Whats wrong with using the appeal process that already exists?
    The current appeal program is largely relegated to low level people, or automated systems even. After browsing a number of appeals back then (I was quite angry when it originally happened, and did a lot of research). A surprising number of bans don't even get looked at by a live person.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Sometimes, but sometimes not. Statistics wise, more people are permabanned up front (usually for botting/duping) than warned. Warning is usually reserved for griefing/language problems.
    Statistics you just made up or ...? Well the or is kinda redundant.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2013-05-01 at 07:34 AM.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    The criteria could certainly be more harsh. I was simply making suggestions.
    -3 year no infractions
    -$50 fee + Update to newest expansions + at least 1-2 months game time
    -All gold/boes stripped from old account
    -Possibly prevention of AH/Trade use for 3 months on old account (sort of like a starter/free account)

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 12:26 AM ----------


    A legitimate concern.

    There would definitely need to be monetary compensation, enough to offset both the work involved on blizzard's end, + profit


    No. This is already addressed. Anyone previously banned would need an already active, clean account. If they were going to bot/dupe again, they would have already done it without reactivating the old account.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 12:27 AM ----------


    Sometimes, but sometimes not. Statistics wise, more people are permabanned up front (usually for botting/duping) than warned. Warning is usually reserved for griefing/language problems.
    I am curious, making all this work for Blizzard and adding the immense risk for abuse of your rule change, exactly what benefit does Blizzard get from changing to your plan instead of staying with what exists?

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  17. #117
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    No. Stop breaking rules, then you wont have the "ban" problem. I can understand partly if you've been banned and you didn't do it.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It's not cut/dry as that. "Blocking Warden" is nowhere in the ToS. So blocking it without knowing it's blocked is impossible to tell. Can you tell me if your system blocks Archon from being used for sure?

    And furthermore, doing something intentionally is much different from doing something unintentionally, or not even knowing it existed.


    The current appeal program is largely relegated to low level people, or automated systems even. After browsing a number of appeals back then (I was quite angry when it originally happened, and did a lot of research). A surprising number of bans don't even get looked at by a live person.

    C. use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, “mines,” or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;
    E. host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or the Service, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play, or as part of content aggregation networks;
    Just 2 sections I found in the TOU...

    Am certain that your Wine emulator that you got banned for falls under one... Yes? And regardless of whether you KNEW about Warden, you either didn't read the TOU (meaning ignorance of the rules isn't a defense) or, you read them and ignored them (again, definately not a defense).

    Archon, dunno... dont care.... Dont have to worry about it... because I'm following the rules.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  19. #119
    I personally do use Wine, I have no intention of ever running Windows again.
    System Requirements are what the game requires to run, it does not say a thing about you not trying to run it on anything else, it says what they know it to run well on, its a pretty simple concept.
    Is using Wine breaking the ToS? I don't have a clue, I don't use it to cheat, I use it as they don't directly support my OS. If they choose to ban me for using something so I actually am able to play their games they lose me as a customer for each and every game they create, I won't be back :/
    and for the record Wine is *not* an emulator it actually stands for "Windows Is Not Emulated".

  20. #120
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Statistics you just made up or ...? Well the or is kinda redundant.
    Honestly, I don't have the time nor desire to dig up information I looked up 8 years ago. You're welcome to do the research yourself, however the statistics are entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    I am curious, making all this work for Blizzard and adding the immense risk for abuse of your rule change, exactly what benefit does Blizzard get from changing to your plan instead of staying with what exists?
    Money, of course.

    Don't get me wrong, as much as I'd LIKE something like this, every decision comes down to money, and the ONLY way an amnesty system would work, is if it was fiscally effective. If it brought in enough money through new accounts, or simply fees, it would be worth it. If, despite fees/subscriptions, it wouldn't cover the manpower + profit... it would never work.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 12:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by smileaf View Post
    Is using Wine breaking the ToS? I don't have a clue, I don't use it to cheat, I use it as they don't directly support my OS.
    Wine, at the time, did violate the ToS, as it made the game run not according to spec. However most people didn't know this (most people didn't, and do not even know what Warden is. It is not mentioned anywhere in consumer documents), and Blizzard didn't quite understand how Wine worked well enough to deal. They got a HUGE backlash due to it. As far as I'm aware (I haven't used it in years now), Wine is compatible, or at least excluded from Warden's freak out list. Don't quote me on that, though.
    Last edited by chazus; 2013-05-01 at 07:40 AM.
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