Ghost Crawler About Tri Spec (rogue example)

[Koji2k11]

official tweet : We added talents in vanilla so rogue 1 and rogue 2 could be different. With tri spec, what if every rogue feels the same again?

it's funny he said that because they already DO feel the same nothing would change if we had tri spec.
i could finnaly do some pvp without dropping my pve specs for this but i guess we are not allowed to have any kind of fun ^^
discuss plz :P

[Hunterpower]

Really ghostcrawler...
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[Deleted]

Rogue 1 and rogue 2 weren't different. They were both annoyed by the fact that they must pay loads (at the time) of gold for a respec.

[Ryme]

I laughed at that example, of all classes, he would have to pick rogues

[Snow Goose]

I just don't get it, I just don't.

IMO there isn't a single good arguement for not implementing Tri-Spec, and some pretty goods ones for it.

The only thing not having Tri-spec costs us is time and gold. As far as I am aware, tedius re-specs and farming gold aren't fun. Blizz like us to have fun right?

We still have 3 specs, we can still use all 3 specs, not having Tri-Spec offers no uniqueness, the arguement is just ridiculous. I don't sit there and say "I am an ASSAS/SUB Rogue - what type are you?" I simply choose the 2 specs I use most often and then fork up gold and waste time re-specing when I want to use the third spec for something. I am going to guess that this is what ALL rogues (and all classes in fact do). You either put up with the pain when you want to make use of that third spec Blizz put (some) time and effort into making for us and presumably want us to play (else why have it??) or you simply don't bother and either don't engage in the activity you need that spec for or work around it (usually sub-optimally) with the other specs you have.

It is even worse for hybrids. There is nothing unique about spec-ing to heal, or spec-ing to DPS, or spec-ing to Tank. There is no choice there at all.

But the fact he picks rogues as the example, yeh, that really made me laugh too and then I stopped and sat there puzzled - it makes no sense!!

Using uniqueness as arguement when there are such limited options anyway ...... yeh, I am back to, I just don't get it!! In fact if you count talents and glyphs as part of the spec, Tri-Spec actually offers a LOT more uniqueness.

Though ofc, no matter how many specs we have.... yeh it ain't going to feel "unique"

When I saw the tri-spec noise I was hoping, oh well, at least there is always action bar saver!

[Deleted]

I play a DK and with Dual Talents I got one for PvP and one for DPS PvE. I also solo old content and rare elites.

I get to change my PvE spec to Blood everytime... changing talents, replacing spells on the interface etc..

Why in the hell would you not allow Tri-Spec Ghostcrawler? This just continues to add how ridiculous he is. He is obstinate and reasons politically and justifies every stupid change from Cataclysm even tho it was a failure.

Fire him already.

[Deleted]

I play a DK and with Dual Talents I got one for PvP and one for DPS PvE. I also solo old content and rare elites.

I get to change my PvE spec to Blood everytime... changing talents, replacing spells on the interface etc..

Why in the hell would you not allow Tri-Spec Ghostcrawler? This just continues to add how ridiculous he is. He is obstinate and reasons politically and justifies every stupid change from Cataclysm even tho it was a failure.

Fire him already.

same problem here.

[Anjerith]

I play a Druid (4 specs), a DK (3 Specs), a Rogue (3 Specs) and a Hunter (3 Specs).

I *use* the following; Druid (1 healing), DK (2 Tank/DPS), Rogue (1) and Hunter (1 rawr).


My experience has also been that, over the years, people tend to stick with one spec or another in general - they play what they find to be fun.

What would adding a tri-spec accomplish? Is it so painful to spend 50 gold on the extremely rare occasion when the oft-used spec has some sort of random advantage thanks to a game-mechanic or strategy devised by someone cleverer than oneself that you must not only have a third spec that you'd rarely ever use be free but also whine about the mouthpiece of the devs being directly responsible for these horrific pains?

[Duster505]

Ghostcrawler just proofs once more that he doesn't see things from player perspective.

[Brynhildr]

It's not about the gold (at least for me), it's about the time spent re-organising your UI for whichever spec it is e.g. I play a monk with heals/dps but occasionally I need/want to tank (since the gear is similar for dps) but I have to spend half an hour changing my UI around and then getting used to where the buttons are, because they're foreign, because I don't get the chance to use it often.

If you don't want to use it, you don't have to. But if you want to, then you can. The argument of "people wouldn't use it" is invalid since some would, and the ones that didn't... well.. it shouldn't concern them at all.

[Mammoon]

I play a Druid (4 specs), a DK (3 Specs), a Rogue (3 Specs) and a Hunter (3 Specs).

I *use* the following; Druid (1 healing), DK (2 Tank/DPS), Rogue (1) and Hunter (1 rawr).


My experience has also been that, over the years, people tend to stick with one spec or another in general - they play what they find to be fun.

What would adding a tri-spec accomplish? Is it so painful to spend 50 gold on the extremely rare occasion when the oft-used spec has some sort of random advantage thanks to a game-mechanic or strategy devised by someone cleverer than oneself that you must not only have a third spec that you'd rarely ever use be free but also whine about the mouthpiece of the devs being directly responsible for these horrific pains?

You are in the minority. Most people who play a class switch specs regularly, especially DPS classes. If one spec pulls ahead of another, they switch (which is basically every tier). Also, the majority of people I have played with have kept a PvE spec and a PvP spec. You might not PvP at all, but for those of us who do both PvE and PvP it is very annoying and difficult every time you change specs to have to change ALL your keybinds, or tell your raid / arena team that you need 5-10 minutes to set up your keybinds. It is not about the gold at all, and acting like it is about spending 50 gold is complete ignorance.

Is tri-spec necessary? No. Will every single player benefit from it? No. Will people who enjoy playing multiple specs on their character or people who both PvE and PvP use it? Absolutely.

[Deleted]

I play a Druid (4 specs), a DK (3 Specs), a Rogue (3 Specs) and a Hunter (3 Specs).

I *use* the following; Druid (1 healing), DK (2 Tank/DPS), Rogue (1) and Hunter (1 rawr).


My experience has also been that, over the years, people tend to stick with one spec or another in general - they play what they find to be fun.

What would adding a tri-spec accomplish? Is it so painful to spend 50 gold on the extremely rare occasion when the oft-used spec has some sort of random advantage thanks to a game-mechanic or strategy devised by someone cleverer than oneself that you must not only have a third spec that you'd rarely ever use be free but also whine about the mouthpiece of the devs being directly responsible for these horrific pains?

No disrespect, but when you say "people" you might aswell just refer to yourself. I have 6 lvl 90's, and I switch between the different specs on the character sometimes several times a week, and I know many people who are like me.
For example on my monk I have my healing spec for dungeons and pvp, my brewmaster for raids... and then I also like to sometimes do dailies or just relax as a dps. On my rogue I have sub for pvp (nothing else is really viable), assassination for raids (nothing else is really viable)... and for dailies and dungeons and the off days when I'm not raiding I actually want to have my combat spec.

And why couldn't they add tri-spec? What is the loss? It's not a difficult task for the programmers to implement... Its just a faulty design. Rift and other games with multi-specs hasn't imploded last time I checked.

[Deleted]

No disrespect, but when you say "people" you might aswell just refer to yourself. I have 6 lvl 90's, and I switch between the different specs on the character sometimes several times a week, and I know many people who are like me.

says the person who then invokes the same "people" at the end of their post....

If you've have stopped after "several times a week" if would almost have been the perfect post, talking about your own experiences and not assuming that how you play, the people you play with or the people you know are a good proxy for everyone else who plays the game.

See if you only talk to what you know / do, no one can say you're wrong, for example:

"I like to pvp by carefully positioning my balls above my keyboard and bouncing them up and down on the keypad."

You can argue how efficient that is, or maybe how normal I am but you can't say the statement is false unless you have evidence that I'm not teabagging my own keyboard to PVP, and I'm certain I close my curtains at night....

Now take this:

"everyone likes to pvp by carefully positioning their genitals over their keyboard and bouncing up and down"

(I hope someone appreciates the gender neutral nature of that horrible image...)

Now instantly anyone who doesn't do this can chime in with: "I don't and therefore your blanket statement is wrong" and people are now aware that you really have no idea what everyone does, but feel how you play the game and your experiences are the only ones that count and that's equally as wrong

[pmgbro]

This dude is a complete moron. That example worked for vanilla because we ACTUALLY HAD TALENT TREES. /facedesk. He seems to forget in MoP every skill is handed to you without any thought what so ever. There is no uniqueness.

[Tziva]

What would adding a tri-spec accomplish? Is it so painful to spend 50 gold on the extremely rare occasion when the oft-used spec has some sort of random advantage thanks to a game-mechanic or strategy devised by someone cleverer than oneself that you must not only have a third spec that you'd rarely ever use be free but also whine about the mouthpiece of the devs being directly responsible for these horrific pains?

I think it's true that most people don't play all three specs of their class, especially for pure DPS classes. But no matter - for me, and I expect a lot of people, respecs are not about the gold -- It's about the new barset.

Perfect example: on my shaman, I play two specs. I have my healing main spec, and my DPS offspec, which I am required to have for raiding. However, I like to PvP on her. Even though I PvP in my resto spec, the PvE keybind priority is totally different than my PvP one, like making sure I have my trinket on there for the quick keybind. I hatehatehatehatehate having to tweak and readjust my action bars before every damn game, then swap it back. You also usually need to make some UI tweaks, and I know some people also swap macro sets. Those things are a lot more inconvenient than paying a few gold to an NPC, so it's not fair to reduce it to that.

But really, just because you (and me) only play a couple specs of each of our classes doesn't mean no one does. I know lots of people who regularly respec for various reasons and then have to rebuild their whole UI again for the new spec. Personally, I would be okay with no tri-spec if they did allow us to implement multiple bar sets, but since there are three specs for most classes, and four for one, I don't really see any reason to not go forward with that plan.

[Kael]

This dude is a complete moron. That example worked for vanilla because we ACTUALLY HAD TALENT TREES. /facedesk. He seems to forget in MoP every skill is handed to you without any thought what so ever. There is no uniqueness.

I'm not sure I ever saw uniqueness in the talent trees. The most "unique" options I recall were for Sub back in Wrath, were you could drop a minor amount of DPS to gain a significant boost in survival (reduced AoE damage) on some fights. Otherwise, it was all questions like "in my gear, is 7% eviscerate damage worth more than X chance for a combo point to something something" - I don't recall what that was, but that was pretty much the DPS discussion across all talents. Otherwise, you had a specific spec, and did what you were supposed to, just like you do now. There is no uniqueness, but it's not because of the lack of a distinct talent tree; nothing differentiates characters of the same class by nature - you could try to make us pick between active abilities (oh wait, mutilate/SS/Backstab!), but even then there just arises a best answer which everyone will pick if they play seriously at all.

A lot of people have really hit my thoughts about tri-spec on the head. It's a matter of convenience for some, to be able to set UI settings to spec 1/2/3 instead of 1/2, then respec 2, then move UI elements around for 2. I have no use for it on my rogue - another irony of the rogue example being used! - but I'd love to have resto/boom/bear on my druid, or all 3 DPS specs on my warlock, since all 3 are distinctly useful in progression, and nothing is distinct about the specs I pick except the inconvenience of running back to learn the third one and set everything up (mostly with an addon - as mentioned earlier).

Whether "people" do it or not really is immaterial if the question boils to down to this: what does it add to the game, and what does it take away?

I don't see it taking anything away that would fit in the list as taking away.
It removes inconveniences from people who would like to use all 3 specs of their class (sorry druids - maybe just 1 of each?), allows for 2 PvE/1 PvP spec setups, PvE/Solo/PvP, etc. Reduces reliance on addons to configure UI (action bar saver - seriously, how do you switch specs mid-raid without this or something similar?), which is always a goal.

As for rogues: personally, I won't miss a third spec on my rogue, and I don't think many will. The irony of picking us as an example exists on multiple levels - in the first because our complaint is that all specs are homogenized; in the second because we primarily only have 1 PvP spec and 1 PvE spec; in the third because regardless of spec oddities, we're one of the few (rogues, hunters, maybe one other) for which there does not exist a third spec that has use in unusual situations (soloing, different raid bosses) for which we'd really want to have that third spec on hand to prevent "EUGH, I need to go switch specs;" and, lastly, outside of changing concerns entirely (PvE vs. PvP for bars/UI), we watch the same things in each spec and don't have to change anything! If there's an argument to be made that tri-spec somehow reduces uniqueness, I think Hybrids are the only front from which to argue, and rogues were almost certainly the worst choice for the example, which leads to this thread (no, I'm not going to close it) which is discussing tri-spec options - distinctly not about us - in the rogue forums.

[autopsy]

I think it's true that most people don't play all three specs of their class, especially for pure DPS classes. But no matter - for me, and I expect a lot of people, respecs are not about the gold -- It's about the new barset.

Perfect example: on my shaman, I play two specs. I have my healing main spec, and my DPS offspec, which I am required to have for raiding. However, I like to PvP on her. Even though I PvP in my resto spec, the PvE keybind priority is totally different than my PvP one, like making sure I have my trinket on there for the quick keybind. I hatehatehatehatehate having to tweak and readjust my action bars before every damn game, then swap it back. You also usually need to make some UI tweaks, and I know some people also swap macro sets. Those things are a lot more inconvenient than paying a few gold to an NPC, so it's not fair to reduce it to that.

But really, just because you (and me) only play a couple specs of each of our classes doesn't mean no one does. I know lots of people who regularly respec for various reasons and then have to rebuild their whole UI again for the new spec. Personally, I would be okay with no tri-spec if they did allow us to implement multiple bar sets, but since there are three specs for most classes, and four for one, I don't really see any reason to not go forward with that plan.

There are addons (like action bar saver, Macro Bank and Reflux) that can help when switching. Respec, load macros group, load saved action bar profile, load other addon profiles (unit frames, cast bars etc), done. But I agree that the default UI should have something like this implemented.
But if we got tri-spec, would that be enough for some? would druids want 4 spec? would people want to have 3 specs for PvE and 1 for PvP?

[Phookah]

We really don't need tri-spec. I mean, whats the point of even having a spec at that point? Might as well just pick a class and be done with it.

[theturn]

Wait does that mean their is actually uniqueness in the rogue class?

[Rucati]

There's no need for tri-spec. Dual spec was good so you could PvP and PvE without needing to respec multiple times a week, there's no need for more.

I've respec'd a total of... once this expansion, on my 4 level 90s. If you play a Druid, for example, and you raid as Resto with a DPS offspec, then there's no reason you'd need tri-spec, even if you want to PvP, you can PvP as Resto or whatever your DPS spec is. If you want to PvP as Feral, just go Resto with a Feral offspec for raiding, problem solved. You can even keep all your hotkeys the same, it isn't like you need to change them around for PvE or PvP, unless you hotkey things in a completely ridiculous way. If you want to try tanking, you should have to go respec. There's no reason you should need your Guardian spec all the time if you just tank occasionally, that's the whole point.

His example kind of makes sense, if every class gets every spec all the time then they're all identical. They're all pretty similar now, but at least Rogue 1 and Rogue 2 might have different specs, if they have tri-spec then everyone in the game (aside from Druids) will be exactly the same. There's simply no need for it at all, no matter how lazy you are, it isn't hard to go respec.