1. #1
    High Overlord Mojototem's Avatar
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    Exclamation Help with Horridon 10m!

    Hey guys, the group I've been raiding with has hit a pretty serious wall with Horridon. We're 60+ wipes in and getting kind of frustrated.

    As far as I can tell, we're not wiping to one thing in particular. First two doors usually go pretty smooth, if a little bit mana intensive for the healers. Third door our paladin is the only dispeller which taxes her mana pretty bad. By fourth door the healers are running on fumes and if we manage to get the war god out, we usually can't keep the raid up long enough to kill him.

    Our composition changes slightly every week, but is generally:
    2 warrior tanks (sometimes a DK)
    Pally, Shaman and disc Priest heals (priest has been away for a few weeks though)
    Hunter, boomy, dk, rogue and ele shammy dps.

    I'm not sure if our healers just aren't coping with the damage going out, or people are causing too much damage to go out, but so far we've only managed to kill the war god once and we wiped at 20% with 30 seconds until enrage because of dead dps.

    Here are the WoL of some of our attempts (most recent first).
    This week
    a few weeks ago
    a few weeks ago, second night

    I'm not raid leader and I haven't been logging every weeks attempts, but I'd appreciate any advice on tactics or personal pointers for individual raiders.

    Thanks!

    Thanks to i4ni for the amazing sig.

  2. #2
    Well I took a look at the longest attempt that your raid has put in on the boss from the logs you provided. And from the 12 minute one, I noticed two glaring issue in the things I saw. Ones that would explain quite a bit of why your healers are running on fumes.
    One: Kicks

    For how many things there are that you can interrupt in the fight, it doesn't seem like you have enough people actually doing so. And for a raid where literally every one of your DPS can kick, that's a bad thing. On door two, there's poison bolt volleys getting off. On door four, it looks like the flame casters are just chain casting firebolt without being interrupted. The fireballs they cast do I believe 150k a hit. That's huge when on that attempt your raid took over 4.5 million from that source alone.

    Not to mention for poison bolt volleys. You're single dispelling them from what I can see. Now while my experience isn't with normal, and more with heroic, we have a fairly simple strategy for that. If any of them do get off, we wait until the last effusion and priest are dead and then our monk revivals the raid and clears everyone in one cast. That's far more efficient than single dispelling to no end.

    Two: Incidental damage

    Fairly simple here. Don't stand in shit! I don't know if your raid moves or not, but when it comes to the third door, we're constantly moving the raid closer to the fourth and with the fourth, we move back towards the first. This means we're not standing in Frozen orbs ever and the same with lightning nova totems. While the totems weren't so bad for you, the Orbs were. Combined, that was another 4 million damage that's almost entirely avoidable.

    Being 9 am in the morning and without having slept yet, this is the best I can do from the brief glance I had. :P
    Last edited by Pizzaman199; 2013-05-04 at 02:14 PM.

  3. #3
    The Patient GameFreakRPG's Avatar
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    @Pizzaman: Your Monk uses Revival, not Uplift.
    But apart from that, you're pretty much right. Normals are all about getting the mechanics right, not getting them right will definitely exhaust your Healers on Horridon and just about any other boss. Just getting your interrupts right will make a major difference.

    Good luck on getting him down.

    Thanks Quosk1867, for the amazing sig! <3

  4. #4
    I'm a moonkin, not a monk. I got no clue what they use. xP

  5. #5
    As said above, kick more casts on doors 2 & 4

    And as a tip, if they're not already, have your DK(s) use army of the dead on the 3rd door to soak up a lot of damage and debuffs, can really make the fight

  6. #6
    High Overlord Mojototem's Avatar
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    So work on interrupts and better kiting / not standing in orbs. It feels like its a healing problem, so hopefully focusing on this next week will leave the healers with some mana on fourth door and boss phase.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 12:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrstlol View Post
    And as a tip, if they're not already, have your DK(s) use army of the dead on the 3rd door to soak up a lot of damage and debuffs, can really make the fight
    We actually just started trying this tonight, unfortunately a few raiders had internet trouble so we weren't able to see if it made a difference or not. One question though, should it be glyphed to not taunt, or left with taunt on?

    Thanks to i4ni for the amazing sig.

  7. #7
    There's alot of damage/deaths occuring due to things that are easily avoidable.


    Attempt #3

    Delirìum [22:25:24.965] Farraki Wastewalker hits Delirìum 87612
    [22:25:24.965] Farraki Wastewalker hits Delirìum 44199
    [22:25:25.301] Unknown Sand Trap Delirìum 81187 (more)

    Tanks doesn't pick up an elite and it gets your druid low, then he stands in a sandtrap.

    Attempt #4

    Dushnekill [22:31:57.214] Gurubashi Venom Priest Venom Bolt Volley Dushnekill 19463
    [22:31:58.204] Living Poison Living Poison Dushnekill 102724
    [22:31:58.204] Living Poison Living Poison Dushnekill 70358 (O: 21795) (more)

    Morgraithe [22:33:51.006] Frozen Orb Frozen Bolt Morgraithe 81200
    [22:33:51.594] Frozen Orb Frozen Bolt Morgraithe 81161
    [22:33:52.014] Frozen Orb Frozen Bolt Morgraithe 27677 (O: 52612, A: 2110) (more)

    Hunter stands in living poison and your pally stands in an orb until he dies

    Attempt #5

    Beatnu [22:53:17.459] Living Poison Living Poison Beatnu 79888
    [22:53:17.459] Living Poison Living Poison Beatnu 76564
    [22:53:17.459] Living Poison Living Poison Beatnu 70494 (more)

    Crimsonfox [22:55:22.761] Frozen Orb Frozen Bolt Crimsonfox 72344
    [22:55:23.427] Frozen Orb Frozen Bolt Crimsonfox 70094
    [22:55:23.777] Frozen Orb Frozen Bolt Crimsonfox 36174 (O: 31811) (more)

    Delirìum [22:56:43.953] Amani Warbear Swipe Delirìum 64242
    [22:56:45.747] Amani Warbear hits Delirìum 256490
    [22:56:47.750] Amani Warbear hits Delirìum 140551 (O: 55285) (more)

    Jepetozz [22:56:56.814] Horridon Double Swipe Jepetozz 179121
    [22:56:57.612] Amani'shi Beast Shaman hits Jepetozz 92008
    [22:56:57.643] Horridon Double Swipe Jepetozz 72315 (O: 95908) (more)


    Tank stands in poison and dies, Hunter stands in orb and dies, druid stands in front of a Warbear (they cleave) and dies, DK gets hit by doubleswipe. All of these things can and should be avoided.

    Have people focus on staying out of this stuff and you'll have your kill in no time! GL

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojototem View Post
    So work on interrupts and better kiting / not standing in orbs. It feels like its a healing problem, so hopefully focusing on this next week will leave the healers with some mana on fourth door and boss phase.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 12:39 AM ----------



    We actually just started trying this tonight, unfortunately a few raiders had internet trouble so we weren't able to see if it made a difference or not. One question though, should it be glyphed to not taunt, or left with taunt on?

    Left with taunt on. The idea is for the army to absorb as much of the damage and early disease debuffs as possible.

    I can't really add much to what's been said. Interrupts can save a ton of healer mana on door 2 and 4. You should always have one dedicated dps on the door 4 flamecasters. On door 2 focus down the effusions as soon as they spawn. On door 3 a disarm rotation on the warlords can drastically reduce the damage the add tank takes.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojototem View Post
    We actually just started trying this tonight, unfortunately a few raiders had internet trouble so we weren't able to see if it made a difference or not. One question though, should it be glyphed to not taunt, or left with taunt on?
    Unglyphed so they soak up the disease debuffs instead of having to dispel them off the raid. What we do is focus kill the first frozen warlord, then use army (or two). Melee just have to be careful to avoid frozen orbs while army is holding all the adds.

    You also want to be aiming to kill the first priest spawning on the 2nd door before it has a chance to cast effusion, if you can do that, should also be able to focus a second priest down from the following pair. Use dps cooldowns here if necessary as less effusions also helps to save a lot of mana. Kill whatever effusions that do spawn quickly though, they only have a small amount of health.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojototem View Post
    So work on interrupts and better kiting / not standing in orbs. It feels like its a healing problem, so hopefully focusing on this next week will leave the healers with some mana on fourth door and boss phase.
    inc caps... IT'S NOT A HEALING PROBLEM, IT'S A FAILURE TO AVOID DAMAGE PROBLEM. I get that everyone wants to feel special, but this is like the 6th thread in a week on this and it all boils down to the same things. Presuming you have the basic gear level and skill to do the boss:

    1) Kill elites, interrupting them ASAP, then kill other adds. Don't AOE, focus fire.
    2) Don't stand in the crap that does get put on the ground
    3) avoid double swipe and if Charge is on you move out of the raid.
    4) Do the tank swap dance (pally aside) so your tanks don't die.

    Ignoring mechanics like interrupts will wipe you. Period.

    Also, learn to do your own WoL anazlysis not because it's bad to ask for help but because spotting basic issues will help your raid. For example, you correctly called out that healers were OOM early. The question there is why... and there really are only three reasons healers OOM early. One is poor spell choices/overheal on the healers' part, i.e. they're just being wasteful. Second is that they simply aren't geared for the fight and don't have the regen and spellpower to heal it. Third is that they are having to heal far too much damage which implies that the raid is taking damage it should not take. If you know they're geared OK then it's really two reasons. Looking at overheal and at damage taken by source usually will point out which of those issues is the problem.
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-05-04 at 07:37 PM.

  11. #11
    Pit Lord MrHappy's Avatar
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    as most have pointed out you are taking waaayyy too much damage that people are not supposed to. For second door you need to assign interrupts to the Priests and have range blow up infusions as they come in. I highly suggest if you are having trouble with adds to do this Dinomancer to 50% > Current door Big adds > Dinomancer to 0% > little adds. You do not need to kill him just made sure he drops the orb and use the orb asap. After that focus on the big adds and kill the Dinomancer after. Also (something that we use for heroic strat) you can try to tank swap when the 2nd set of adds (big ones) come out so the tank with the current highest vengeance can help kill adds faster.

    Honestly if you heals are going oom it is either lack of gear or not doing the mechanics. ToT is mostly mechanics check vs a gear/dps check so just clean up each door and you'll be fine
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