1. #1

    Heroic Horridon Help

    On our first night of progression on this boss we were getting to the 3rd door consistently but then had a bit of trouble trying to get to the 4th on a constant basis. This prompted us to switch up our strategy so that we could go into the 3rd door a bit better off. What we normally did (when we reached 3rd door consistently) was focus the venom priests/effusions and then go to the blood lords which believe it or not is harder on heals since the lords hit like trucks and leave a dot. So we decided to swap this priority and just make sure we burned the first priest down asap, then make the bloodlords priority if no effusions were up. This resulted in a night of wipes and people yelling at each other because the priests weren't getting interrupted on every single cast. Of course as soon as we go back to the original strat we get to the 3rd door but then come to the same problems. I am not looking for a "hey just do what you did first" because that didn't result in a kill and we are pretty sick of this boss already. I have our logs below and would appreciate something a little more in-depth.

    Tanks:
    DK/Warr
    Heals:
    Disc, Disc/Holy
    DPS:
    Fire mage
    Rogue
    Ele Shaman
    Aff/Destro Lock
    Boomkin
    Hunter

    Logs from first week; Venom priest focus:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wlmetlohqicviy7x/
    Logs from this week; Blood lord focus:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8kseypv55z2srkpo/


    Thanks!

  2. #2
    I'm not entirely sure what makes you think changing the second door will help you on the third door. I don't see why you'd go for blood lords first too, sure, singletarget they hurt more but in the end the most dangerous is always the priests and their venom crap.

    For our first kill, it helped tremendously if we managed to kill the first venom priest before he could spawn an effusion. That's definitely something you can give a shot, save up some cooldowns for that - when we did not manage to do this, the try always was a lot harder if not a wipe.

    You didn't specify what it is you're wiping on on the third door, but looking at logs, some players, and especially your priest is doing a valiant effort at soaking frost orbs (note: this is not a good thing). On one of your longest tries, you had a whopping total amount of 4671323 damage on your raid just from frozen orbs. On another long try, this was even 5501701.

    What this means is that your raid positioning (as well as your raiders', especially your priest's environmental awareness) is bad. Ideally what you want to do is group up and move backwards towards the fourth door as frozen orbs spawn. Your raid will look something like this:

    Melee -> Mobs -> Tanks -> Ranged and healers -> fourth door.

    That way you optimize cleave and damage uptime, minimize frozen orb damage, and optimize healing.

    Alternatively, I know some groups who like to pop heroism on the third door, though we do it on the fourth in our 10man runs. GTFO is an addon that may help some of your raiders too. In fact I'd recommend it to everyone in general.

  3. #3
    In the long run, I think the Venom Priests are more theatening, and since our kill over a month ago we never even thought about focusing Bloodlords - basically they're not worth focusing whilst VenomPriests are alive.

    For the second door focus the Priests down asap, mark them up and sign interupts on them, and when effusions spawn then take them out (although you can basically aoe and cleave them down as they only have 1.2mil health ish).

    As for the third door the best thing to do is to zerg (pop all dps cd's, not bloodlust though) on the first Frozen Warlord, then clear up as many little adds as you feel is "safe" and go back onto the remaining 2 warlords. Clear up and move to gate 4, but don't rush on this phase, just keep it steady. Because of all the raid dmg here we usually have a Shadowpriest pop VE on the Dire Call that happens 30s ish after we got to the third door, so i'd advise a raid cd or two there as well.

    Fourth door is similar to the third, clear up adds as they come, focus the first warbear and then interupt the Shaman and Decurse asap. Clear up small adds and then on to the next warbears. Spreading out here is good and avoid totems.

    Thats pretty much what our kill boiled down to, but i'm pretty sure you'll find focusing those Venompriests to be the most successful strategy. Goodluck!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirque View Post
    I'm not entirely sure what makes you think changing the second door will help you on the third door. I don't see why you'd go for blood lords first too, sure, singletarget they hurt more but in the end the most dangerous is always the priests and their venom crap.

    For our first kill, it helped tremendously if we managed to kill the first venom priest before he could spawn an effusion. That's definitely something you can give a shot, save up some cooldowns for that - when we did not manage to do this, the try always was a lot harder if not a wipe.

    You didn't specify what it is you're wiping on on the third door, but looking at logs, some players, and especially your priest is doing a valiant effort at soaking frost orbs (note: this is not a good thing). On one of your longest tries, you had a whopping total amount of 4671323 damage on your raid just from frozen orbs. On another long try, this was even 5501701.

    What this means is that your raid positioning (as well as your raiders', especially your priest's environmental awareness) is bad. Ideally what you want to do is group up and move backwards towards the fourth door as frozen orbs spawn. Your raid will look something like this:

    Melee -> Mobs -> Tanks -> Ranged and healers -> fourth door.

    That way you optimize cleave and damage uptime, minimize frozen orb damage, and optimize healing.

    Alternatively, I know some groups who like to pop heroism on the third door, though we do it on the fourth in our 10man runs. GTFO is an addon that may help some of your raiders too. In fact I'd recommend it to everyone in general.
    Alot of that damage is from the DK's army that he pops on that door, they just run around recklessly but other than that the priest was getting hit by orbs a bit which shouldn't happen at all

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Greywardenn View Post
    Alot of that damage is from the DK's army that he pops on that door, they just run around recklessly but other than that the priest was getting hit by orbs a bit which shouldn't happen at all
    that's not true at all.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../spell/136573/
    your raid should be taking way less hits from frozen orb.

    why are you talking about the second door when you're wiping on the third door? your focus is completely wrong. what's killing you on the third door? frozen orbs? tank deaths? dispels? disease?
    on the third door you want to kill the first 2 small adds, then a big add, then the remaining small adds + get the dinomancer to 50% to close the door, then finish off small adds and the 2 big adds. Make sure you are all pretty close together because the small adds fixate so making sure they are all in range of each other + some aoe/cleave is ideal.
    Last edited by bals; 2013-05-01 at 03:06 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    that's not true at all.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../spell/136573/
    your raid should be taking way less hits from frozen orb.

    why are you talking about the second door when you're wiping on the third door? your focus is completely wrong. what's killing you on the third door? frozen orbs? tank deaths? dispels? disease?
    on the third door you want to kill the first 2 small adds, then a big add, then the remaining small adds + get the dinomancer to 50% to close the door, then finish off small adds and the 2 big adds. Make sure you are all pretty close together because the small adds fixate so making sure they are all in range of each other + some aoe/cleave is ideal.
    It was disease that was killing us on the 3rd door and it's been so long I don't even remember what the logic was when we decided to swap strats but I think it has to do with ppl not focusing the same target. going to see what happens tomorrow night, thanks for the help.

  7. #7
    The disease killing people is dispel fail. You can minimize the risk of that by prioritizing the small mobs over the frozen orb mob, and then killing the dino asap. If you find that your add tank gets trucked by the end because of this, just chain external CDs on him. Disarms and stuns are your friend on the 3rd door. As someone else pointed out, your frozen orb damage is through the roof--especially given that you only have 1 melee. You need to change up your strat such that the add tank goes against the wall once he has the big adds.

    For the 2nd door, you were right the first time. Tunnel the priests. You want the 1st priest dead before an effusion spawns (which really isn't hard), but if you're having trouble, tell dps to not pop a single CD on the 1st door. You then want the 2nd priest dead before its effusion spawns (also not hard). You should get only 1 effusion ever (from the 3rd priest), which you tunnel down and cleave once the dino is out, then get to the bloodlords. Yeah, the dot hurts, but you have 2 disc priests... Atonement alone overheals the dot. It really sounds like your priests need to step up: this fight is arguably the best disc fight of the entire tier, and you shouldn't be having this much trouble.
    Marshmallows - 10/13H - Recruiting hunter/warlock
    Latest kill vid: Heroic Primordius (10) (from Natoro)

  8. #8
    We had 96 wipes on H Horridon before our kill. Last week we accidentally pulled with 3 healers and just went for instead of wiping. Ironically it somehow made this fight absolutely trivial. I would definitely give it a go. Have disc sit on Horridon smite spamming the entire time and spirit shelling every dire call. Also fire mage is pretty bad and spiky on this fight, I would recommend having him go frost w/ nether tempest. You need constant and steady damage and fire is pure RNG / not what you want for this fight. As far as third door idk what you guys are doing lol you cant get hit by frozen orb. We actually use a WeakAura, every time a frozen orb spawns your tank needs to keep dragging the adds toward the 4th door, keep in mind frozen orb has a 20 yard radius so make sure your drag the adds back, stop --> wait for next orb --> move 20 yards --> stop again etc etc etc. As far as dispelling goes we found dispelling 1 stack is pointless for pretty much every door except for first one. Healers should really only dispel @ 2 stacks or more.

    P.S. My main is a hunter. Idk what your hunter is doing but why hes not specced into barrage is beyond me.......... Also he only used murder of crows once on your longest pull....... I usually use murder of crows on Horridon on cooldown or else on the elite were killing such as the Frozen Warlord since it has a ton of HP. And finally, he's not using explosive trap???? What....... You get insane lock and load procs on the fight as well as amazing add damage. Even if you don't use explosive trap you ALWAYS need to keep up black arrow on Horridon which he should be using on CD for LnL procs. Literally the worst hunter I have ever seen, scrap him he shouldn't be doing HMs.

  9. #9
    Someone else said it, but bloodlord's aren't the priority mainly because venom priests can do more damage to your raid in the long run, even if you get dispels off timely, it still sucks up your healers mana, not to mention most classes can pop survival CD's for them (you won't need those survival CD's again for a while). My group's goal was to burn down the first venom priest before an effusion, and then when 2 priests pop, burn one of them down before it has an effusion while the horridon tank picks the other one up - if your group has the dps for this, this door will be very easy.

    Also, I wouldn't recommend using any dps CD's on the first door as everything should drop extremely fast. Be weary of dps that are attacking horridon when adds are up, looking at recount and compare how much damage was done, and by who, on horridon - every bit of dps on the adds is crucial for this fight and some people do get careless.

    You also probably want to consider lusting on the 4th door, if you are running with 6 dps, just have them pop pots on the warlord and save some CD's and he should drop fast enough.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting123 View Post
    We had 96 wipes on H Horridon before our kill. Last week we accidentally pulled with 3 healers and just went for instead of wiping. Ironically it somehow made this fight absolutely trivial. I would definitely give it a go. Have disc sit on Horridon smite spamming the entire time and spirit shelling every dire call. Also fire mage is pretty bad and spiky on this fight, I would recommend having him go frost w/ nether tempest. You need constant and steady damage and fire is pure RNG / not what you want for this fight. As far as third door idk what you guys are doing lol you cant get hit by frozen orb. We actually use a WeakAura, every time a frozen orb spawns your tank needs to keep dragging the adds toward the 4th door, keep in mind frozen orb has a 20 yard radius so make sure your drag the adds back, stop --> wait for next orb --> move 20 yards --> stop again etc etc etc. As far as dispelling goes we found dispelling 1 stack is pointless for pretty much every door except for first one. Healers should really only dispel @ 2 stacks or more.

    P.S. My main is a hunter. Idk what your hunter is doing but why hes not specced into barrage is beyond me.......... Also he only used murder of crows once on your longest pull....... I usually use murder of crows on Horridon on cooldown or else on the elite were killing such as the Frozen Warlord since it has a ton of HP. And finally, he's not using explosive trap???? What....... You get insane lock and load procs on the fight as well as amazing add damage. Even if you don't use explosive trap you ALWAYS need to keep up black arrow on Horridon which he should be using on CD for LnL procs. Literally the worst hunter I have ever seen, scrap him he shouldn't be doing HMs.
    That's a really needlessly harsh post, not to mention uninformed. There's no reason why that mage should go frost, not in the least because he probably doesn't have a set of frost gear lying around (and that's of vital importance for any mage to perform), and because fire is perfectly viable on that fight as it is on any other. Not to mention it's mechanics are wiping the raid, not dps. That said, you shouldn't be thrashtalking their hunter so much as you're in no position to criticize anyone tbh, no offense intended but yeah, IMO it's not acceptable to thashtalk anyone like that, not even if you're from Method, but let alone if you yourself couldn't kill horridon in less than 100 pulls. Giving constructive criticism is always a good thing, but always in a polite and respectful manner. That said, with my limited hunter knowledge, I do believe barrage is semi viable nowadays - not that it's important, but yeah.

    I wonder if OP has any news concerning his raid, I'm rather curious to know how that went. With improved raid positioning, proper dispelling, etc., there's no reason you shouldn't make it past the third door. That said, as someone else mentioned, both 2 and 3 healing it is perfectly possible and maybe something to consider changing to see what happens.

  11. #11
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirque View Post
    That's a really needlessly harsh post, not to mention uninformed. There's no reason why that mage should go frost, not in the least because he probably doesn't have a set of frost gear lying around (and that's of vital importance for any mage to perform), and because fire is perfectly viable on that fight as it is on any other. Not to mention it's mechanics are wiping the raid, not dps. That said, you shouldn't be thrashtalking their hunter so much as you're in no position to criticize anyone tbh, no offense intended but yeah, IMO it's not acceptable to thashtalk anyone like that, not even if you're from Method, but let alone if you yourself couldn't kill horridon in less than 100 pulls. Giving constructive criticism is always a good thing, but always in a polite and respectful manner. That said, with my limited hunter knowledge, I do believe barrage is semi viable nowadays - not that it's important, but yeah.

    I wonder if OP has any news concerning his raid, I'm rather curious to know how that went. With improved raid positioning, proper dispelling, etc., there's no reason you shouldn't make it past the third door. That said, ase someone else mentioned, both 2 and 3 healing it is perfectly possible and maybe something to consider changing to see what happens.
    Frost and Fire are close to the same item setups Lots of Crit/haste/hit gear. Its just another gemming/reforging. And he is right. If you want to kill adds fast, go frost.

    Frozen Orb does insane DMG if you have more than 2 Adds up, let alone the FoF procs that cleave. Also a good Frost mage plays with frost bomb on horridon.

    350k ae crist on all adds and horridon if you time you freeze right or nova are just OP

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirque View Post
    That's a really needlessly harsh post, not to mention uninformed. There's no reason why that mage should go frost, not in the least because he probably doesn't have a set of frost gear lying around (and that's of vital importance for any mage to perform), and because fire is perfectly viable on that fight as it is on any other. Not to mention it's mechanics are wiping the raid, not dps. That said, you shouldn't be thrashtalking their hunter so much as you're in no position to criticize anyone tbh, no offense intended but yeah, IMO it's not acceptable to thashtalk anyone like that, not even if you're from Method, but let alone if you yourself couldn't kill horridon in less than 100 pulls. Giving constructive criticism is always a good thing, but always in a polite and respectful manner. That said, with my limited hunter knowledge, I do believe barrage is semi viable nowadays - not that it's important, but yeah.

    I wonder if OP has any news concerning his raid, I'm rather curious to know how that went. With improved raid positioning, proper dispelling, etc., there's no reason you shouldn't make it past the third door. That said, as someone else mentioned, both 2 and 3 healing it is perfectly possible and maybe something to consider changing to see what happens.
    We haven't raided since I made this post but we are going back to Horridon tonight so I will basically have everybody tighten up. Going to 3 heals may be what we do considering our Boomkin is MS resto and the damage he is putting out isn't exactly stellar.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 11:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mûe View Post
    Frost and Fire are close to the same item setups Lots of Crit/haste/hit gear. Its just another gemming/reforging. And he is right. If you want to kill adds fast, go frost.

    Frozen Orb does insane DMG if you have more than 2 Adds up, let alone the FoF procs that cleave. Also a good Frost mage plays with frost bomb on horridon.

    350k ae crist on all adds and horridon if you time you freeze right or nova are just OP
    Crit is viable for Frost up to a point as you'll quickly get crit capped effectively wasting stats. So the gear really isn't the same.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Greywardenn View Post
    We haven't raided since I made this post but we are going back to Horridon tonight so I will basically have everybody tighten up. Going to 3 heals may be what we do considering our Boomkin is MS resto and the damage he is putting out isn't exactly stellar.
    I've said this in the other Heroic Horridon threads, but to reiterate: there is absolutely, unequivocally no justification to 3 heal this fight. We run disc + mistweaver, and I legit fistweave most of the fight - and not even on Horridon (aside from cleaveweave). It's that little damage.

    Tell your disc priests to smite/penance Horridon more if they're seriously having trouble. Watch range on Horridon if it's not keeping everyone topped. Add dps is what makes this fight easier: not increased hps.
    Marshmallows - 10/13H - Recruiting hunter/warlock
    Latest kill vid: Heroic Primordius (10) (from Natoro)

  14. #14
    We used 2 healers as for us it felt easier with then with 3. Because the adds die a lot faster making it easier.
    We 2 healed it with a disc priest (me) and a resto druid. Disease dispelling is the key to survival, your dispellers needs to focus highest stacked disease first. so make sure his/her raid frames show that. And as only disease dispeller in the raid i can say you can do the dispelling solo.

    I'm not a big fan of 2 healing with disc priest, as you get in each others way. 2 atonement healers sounds nice, but in reality you block each others pw shields and lack of pure hps output to heal back up the ones that have a shield on them. and atonement is a "smart" heal going for the lowest target so not always to the person that needed it at that moment.

    I know i used a lot more pw shields to keep people alive, for example i used them on all blood rend people and people with the disease stacked to keep them alive. Also he used spirit shell 0 times. So make him use it when possible every dire call and i used it also to spam it on the tank in the last phase.

    Also i would recommend mind bender over pw solace as mindbender is your biggest friend on the pink dino. It will push the pink dino far away for a while. As i find him very annoying to keep away during last phase.

  15. #15
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greywardenn View Post
    We haven't raided since I made this post but we are going back to Horridon tonight so I will basically have everybody tighten up. Going to 3 heals may be what we do considering our Boomkin is MS resto and the damage he is putting out isn't exactly stellar.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 11:00 AM ----------



    Crit is viable for Frost up to a point as you'll quickly get crit capped effectively wasting stats. So the gear really isn't the same.
    That why I wrote "close to the same". People really need to learn how to read a sentence. And no, you will not get crit capped if you reforge crit to hit/mastery/expertise

    That why you focus on crit/haste gear. You leave the haste and reforge the crit if neccesary.

    I really want to see a mage with 520+ gear who will exceed over the critcap for frost when prioretizing haste and refoging from crit

    There aren't even that many pieces you wear with crit in the BIS setting, not even in the normal setting.

    actually most fire and Frost items are close to the same. Except Trinkets/boots and wrist/neck maybe. Hell the pieces for frost are still viable...

  16. #16
    You're making the fight even more difficult using 3 healers. Big adds are priority except for the last door, kill venom priests ASAP and dispel quickly, same on frozen warlords. Last door is all about control, focus the first bear and shaman, then just kill small adds until the dinomancer spawn, close the door and proceed to kill the other bears.

  17. #17
    this thread is gonna be a help to our group as well, thanks

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