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  1. #1
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    All Specs - How do Bombs Make you Feel?

    Been a topic of discussion among some mages lately and I'm curious what the community thinks:

    How do mage bombs actually make you feel?

    1) Would you prefer to have the bomb associated with your spec? (NT-Arcane; LB-Fire; FB-Frost)

    2) Do you like the design idea of separating the choice of the bomb per the number of targets? (this forces you to switch talents often)

    3) Nether Tempest dominates all 3 specs now, do you think it solves anything to just buff other bombs or nerf NT? What would you do instead?

  2. #2
    Originally I liked the idea of using the bomb associated with my spec.

    As a frost mage I loved the predictability of Frost bomb (FFB) and the use of pet freeze. I felt like I was in control of my procs and not "fishing" for them like the current popular build (although I am enjoying the high haste build with NT)

    As a normal raider who hasn't cleared ToT in 25 man (9/12) yet, I am sticking with NT for all fights so far although that is probably based on the fact the I am using BoH.

  3. #3
    I'm in the camp of mages who would rather have bombs removed entirely from Arcane and Frost at the least. It feels to me that bombs do not fit the theme of the specs; while Frost at least has the excuse that the bomb interacts with Brain Freeze, in Arcane it's just another button to push at a regular interval. Fire feels better (since Fire includes the idea of sticking damaging dots on your target) but why tie it to Pyromaniac?

    As to your questions:

    2.) I'm ambivalent about separating the choice of bomb per target number. Nether Tempest feels like a firecracker that throws sparks around. Living Bomb understandably has a target cap so that it isn't too powerful in multitarget situations but still makes no sense (fire doesn't spread beyond three individuals? Explosions won't hurt you if you bring friends?). Frost Bomb hits everything around while the flame bomb doesn't?

    3.) As I understand it, all three bombs were supposed to be balanced for equal single target DPS and roughly equal multitarget DPS (dependent on the number of targets). This, obviously, has not panned out; NT scales too well with Haste, LB doesn't scale well enough currently, and the Frost Bomb feels awkward since it has a cast time instead of being applied instantly (my muscle memory takes a bit to adjust). I'm not sure there is a satisfactory solution to this problem that still keeps the functionality of the bombs as is. This leads to ...

    1.) Scrap the bombs entirely, or restrict them to spec at least. Currently the bombs are a balancing nightmare. The multi-target component is rarely as important as the single-target component in a boss fight, but Blizzard is increasingly twisting the bombs around in an attempt to balance both, then trying to use the bombs as a convenient DPS dial. After being buffed in in a small hotfix post-5.2, the bombs then had to be PvP nerfed. So now you have bombs that do different damage in PvE and PvP, and with the Living Bomb changes coming in 5.3 it really feels like Blizzard is letting the situation get out of control. Restricting bombs to spec would at least cut down on the number of variables that have to be accounted for.

  4. #4
    I enjoy having a cleave mechanic, I enjoyed it more when it was with LB and I needed to be resourceful and spread it. And while I do like having a cleave, I do not like it replacing AoE spells. Now that everyone has an AoE and more fights rely on them, I think mage ones need to be revisited.

    I don't mind having 1 DoT to refresh, but it should never need to go higher than that (1 spell only, I don't care about number of targets).

    I don't understand why each spec needs to have a bomb, it brings them even closer to having the same play style with different color spells.

    Needing to constantly swap out any talents on a per fight basis is poor design.
    to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so

  5. #5
    I hate having a dot in all specs, especially Arcane. Moreso when the best strategy is to NT everything. Mages were a petless class, Arcane was all about front-loaded damage. Now top spec is forced to have a pet and Arcane is suddenly a multi-doter!

    I would have preferred to leave Living Bomb to Fire and get rid of NT and Frost Bomb. Or to have Mage Bomb as a talent if you want to have a dot for some trinket proc or w/e.

    Actually scrap it - Arcane is still a multidot class then. Just scrap this tier. And lv90 tier too, those should at least not have 100% uptime and increase damage when used, not be a mandatory maintenance to not fall behind. Many classes have really interesting talents, but we have the bombs and maintenance tedium? For example Priests have to choose between some rotational spells - Halo/Divine Star/Cascade. These talents give you choice whether you want a frequently used rotational ability or a short-cd burst spell, what kind of utility you need more atm. Moreover they aren't forced to integrate those into rotation, but the bombs proc BF for Frost, give Pyromaniac damage buff as Fire and do all the damage as multidot mastery RoP Arcane - some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.
    Last edited by Nightfall; 2013-05-01 at 04:33 PM.

  6. #6
    Fire should've been the only spec with a bomb, makes the specs feel the same with all specs having a bomb.
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  7. #7
    Epic! Myz's Avatar
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    1) Would you prefer to have the bomb associated with your spec? (NT-Arcane; LB-Fire; FB-Frost)

    While I like customization, I also like the uniqueness of the specs. Yes, I'd definitely want to have bombs be spec-specific. The only risk we run then is that certain specs become the nr.1 PvE option in certain circumstances (huehuehue) if one bomb is specifically suited for single target/aoe.

    2) Do you like the design idea of separating the choice of the bomb per the number of targets? (this forces you to switch talents often)

    If they are not unique to specs (like now), then yes. I like the different options, or the illusion of different options thanks to NT, we have and swapping Talents based on a fight makes me feel good about myself. If Bombs would be unique to specs, then they should all behave the same no matter the number of targets.

    3) Nether Tempest dominates all 3 specs now, do you think it solves anything to just buff other bombs or nerf NT? What would you do instead?

    We're in a good spot right now, not dominating but certainly not lagging behind. I think the sensible option is to bring the other bombs back to NT-level. Perhaps buff the other bombs to make them indisputably better than NT for, for example, 3-5 targets (LB) or 6+ targets (FB).

  8. #8
    Only bad thing about bombs is that you currently only use NT no matter what spec you use and no matter what kind of fight it is (singletarget, cleave, multitarget, aoe?).

    LB scaling is too bad, after the patch it will scale better but still be the "poor man's" NT.

    The perfect solution would be to associate each bomb to one spec, but give options to still use the other bombs.
    For example:
    Make Frostbomb useable with FoF, therefore the #1 bomb for singletarget, aoe and cleave. But NT should be strong enough to encourage the use on multitarget fights.
    Give back old Fireblast Glyph to make living bomb the #1 bomb for aoe, cleave and multitarget. But NT for Singletarget.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    1) I think bomb by spec would be a good choice for 6.x. it will make it easier to tweak than the actual 27 combination's.
    2) and 3) The new 5.3 design is LB for single target / NT for 2-4 / FB for 5+. On single target, FB is only -2.8% behind LB. To do better, NT's secondary damage need to be reduce to 25% (is actually 50%) and FB's explosion boost to 60% or 75% (50% actually).
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  10. #10
    All three specs are brought closer in terms of playstyle with MoP talents. Now you want to make bombs specific to specs, thus made baseline? Do we really need a dot in Arcane? Isn't it better to have 3 varied playstyles than having to have a dot in rotation for all 3 specs? I think it was perfectly fine that only Fire had Living Bomb that could be spread for its single-target cleave playstyle and other specs had no dots. Specs should be more unique, not multicolor copy-paste.

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Kiry's Avatar
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    I dont mind bombs, what I mind is that the power of the bombs has turned me into multi doting. I prefered it when I put a bomb up as the pull started and I began my normal rotation.

    All three specs have a flavor to me, the bomb is a minor piece of that. The way the tools are being used enhances that flavor. Currently, bombs are just too powerful. I would rather another spell/ability be increased instead.
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  12. #12
    NT all the way expect in megaera heroic frost bomb rocks

  13. #13
    1) No - to answer yes here for me would mean all 3 choices were equal in both single and multi target settings, they are not and they never should be.

    2) Yes - again bombs need to be different otherwise the concept of having 3 different would not exist and therefore bombs would be just bomb (singular)

    3) NT - I believe Blizzard is trying to set a role for each bomb based on number of targets with 5.3. Dominate is also a poor choice of words, as it does not account for player skill and or preference. For example I rolled a mage specifically because the warlock I was trying was driving me bonkers with the DoT's and tracking the expiration of silly DoT's to do competitive DPS. I hate NT because of that DoT component.

    What I loved about Fire before LB spread removal is that I only needed to worry about LB on a single target, would really like to see that returned to LB.

    I am fine with the DoT option for those mages that prefer that play style.

  14. #14
    Where is the "I'd rather not have a freaking bomb at all" category? ><

    I don't like multi-dotting, and I wish our cleaves came naturally from our procs instead, which they do, but the bomb damage just needs to be rolled back into them.

    I don't care either way if a each spec had a particular bomb. I use NT because I can cast it on the move and, even though I dislike having to do it, put it on as many targets as I want. I dislike frost bomb because I have to plant to cast it. Why the discontinuity in function?

    Ideally, If we had a bomb, I wish it was just one generic beast that changed effect maybe with spec, and cleaved from fire blast.

    LB was fun when it was a fire only thing, and was part of fire's cleave mechanic. Now it just seems kitch, and isn't really fun since the targets are limited to 3.

  15. #15
    Epic! Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malfecto View Post
    Where is the "I'd rather not have a freaking bomb at all" category? ><
    I'd actually go with that. I absolutely detest having to multidot on my Mage, I'd rather they move our aoe into cleaving mechanics only (or the standard Flamestrike/Blizzard/AE).

  16. #16
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    This is some very good, and telling feedback so far.

    I'm inclined to agree with the points made about loss of identity. It's how I feel about Living Bomb being the ideal single target bomb in 5.3. So really? 40%-ish of my damage is going to be a fire spell in 5.3?

    If they wish us to be more elementalists and mix our spell types, then the specs should no longer be Arcane/Fire/Frost and should instead be specs designed by playstyle and not named for the school of magic. I am a frost mage, I cast frost spells. If they want a huge chunk of my damage to not be a frost spell, then it undermines the spec. That is a concern.

    I tweeted at GC earlier today that the bombs should be toned down a lot, 40% buff should probably be reverted if they keep the bombs at all. I'd wager the overall mage community would be happy to have the bombs removed, then reintroduced to their spec with some changes.

    We have Wizardry (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=89744) - I think everyone forgets that. Just buff that to buff the entire class.

  17. #17
    I actually like the bombs. I think it makes for interesting play style, especially with frost. I don't like the idea of one bomb per spec but I can see why someone would and I could easily adjust to it. I more or less do your number 2 Akraen already; if I have bunched up adds I will choose FB and otherwise choose NT and dot em all up.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    I think having the 3 bombs and the illusion of choice was a terrible move on Blizzs part.
    I would be ok with bombs being baseline and spec dependent, fire gets LB, arc get NT, frost gets FB and us actually getting a decent talent tier there.

    It just seems pretty stupid that on multi target/add fights, a viable dps option is to go arcane, stack haste+mastery and spam NT on everything. That is beyond dumb that a single spell can play such a large roll for a spec.

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  19. #19
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Say you want bomb design to be dictated by the amount of targets...

    Why is it good design to change a talent every fight? I think this would be a good question to ask-- flexibility is great, but the intentional design of constantly switching talents and glyphs isn't something I hear positive feedback upon from multitudes of raiders.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Say you want bomb design to be dictated by the amount of targets...

    Why is it good design to change a talent every fight? I think this would be a good question to ask-- flexibility is great, but the intentional design of constantly switching talents and glyphs isn't something I hear positive feedback upon from multitudes of raiders.
    I'm to infer that was directed at Tebla?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

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