1. #1

    5.4 Sacred Shield - Feedback and Ideas

    Here and on the official forums, there are threads discussing some of the changes to SS related specifically to Holy Paladins. In the latest blue post regarding the changes behind SS, it was stated that they will be reverting the change of making SS baseline for Prot, as well as reverting the 30% EF nerf. They also said they want to make SS more attractive for Ret and Holy as a talent option. So I want to start this thread and get the ball rolling on any ideas regarding any changes that could be made to SS as a talent that is attractive to all three specs.

    I personally think a few mechanical changes to SS would make it much more attractive to all specs.

    Instead of waiting 6 seconds for the absorb effect to activate, why not make the absorb effect activate instantly and simply increase the cooldown of the spell to 10-15 seconds so we can't spam it? Just like ice-barrier for mages. It makes it worth spending the GCD.

    If Hoy or Ret want to take SS they will be sacrificing EF and SH, which means both specs, in addition to Prot, will only be casting WoG's, and much more frequently. Because of this, adding synergy between SS and WoG is even more important as an incentive to switch over to SS. If WoG's synergy with SS was also tailored differently for all three specs, it could go a long way in terms of balance and useful application for each spec.

    -For Holy, perhaps consider raising the crit chance of WoG and Holy Shock by 20% on a shielded target.

    -For Ret and Prot, increase the crit chance of WoG and Flash of light (so we have the option to hard-cast FoL if we so desire) on a shielded target by 20%.

    The increased crit chance are just numbers i'm throwing out. The main mechanics of the spell and the secondary benefits it provides to all three specs are more important, and numbers can always be tuned later.

    **EDIT**

    I also think giving the Cata SS to Ret baseline is a good move. Realistically, Ret is the only spec that would need that kind of baseline buff, especially in terms of PVP, and I think keeping the WOTLK SS model as a talent choice to replace the Cata SS model would be a good choice, assuming that the WOTLK model is changed to be more attractive to Ret and Holy (see above). It would be the difference between passive survivability, or active survivability, but in all cases, never having to make the decision of sacrificing personal survivability (by not choosing SS) for team-support (by choosing SH).
    Last edited by cletis1234; 2013-06-22 at 02:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk
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    WoG didn't exist in WOTLK and I honestly don't really remember the HoT from WoG much, but I like the idea of WoG and SS synergizing. It would also be a nice choice besides SH, like you said. Thumbs up, IMO.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    I actually liked the idea of using SS as a prot to keep the small bubble and the talent that gave us a second life. I mean flame with the new set bonus might be better given that we will be wog every 5th stack of the heal and the hot component may actua
    Ly make it better for us depending on ow fast we can get to the max 5 stacks of the buff. Personally I always found the judgement one to be shit. A holy never should hit the button, in wrath we did so we could heal you fuckers, and both prot and retri would feel weird using it to heal others. Hell prot only takes SS so we can get a bubble on ourselves. When was the last time you saw one SS anyone else? Maybe on a tank swap during their down time but even that is a push
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    WoG didn't exist in WOTLK and I honestly don't really remember the HoT from WoG much, but I like the idea of WoG and SS synergizing. It would also be a nice choice besides SH, like you said. Thumbs up, IMO.
    Woops, I meant to say that we got Hot's from our Fol crits in WOTLK. I edited the original post so that's clear now.

    Glad you like the idea though.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal tornado shanks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cletis1234 View Post
    It would be the difference between passive survivability, or active survivability, but in all cases, never having to make the decision of sacrificing personal survivability (by not choosing SS) for team-support (by choosing SH).
    this^
    I feel so boxed in with the upcoming SS changes. So done with cookie cutter.

  6. #6
    They plan to revert the changes anyway. Don't like the idea of having abilities work too differently for other specs. I wouldn't mind it working like Power Word Shield, with a longer cool down and absorbs more damage. The reason Sacred Shield works so badly for Ret is because it has a delay, and you can't accurately predict damage. So you either remember to keep it up, or forget about it.

    Don't want it to work too much like Power Word Shield, so you could have it do something extra like increases the healing the target receives by 20% while the shield is up, or increases the crit chance heals receive while it's up. That's what it used to do back in WOTLK I think.

  7. #7
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    I think the best idea to make Holy want SS is to make it increase Holy Shock crit chance while it is up by like 10-20% (mechanics are more important before balancing #'s, remember.) and Holy needs a pretty big PvP buff.

    For Ret, it could cause WoG to have increased crit chance. Can't really make it a HoT (thats what Eternal Flame is, after all.).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    I think the best idea to make Holy want SS is to make it increase Holy Shock crit chance while it is up by like 10-20% (mechanics are more important before balancing #'s, remember.) and Holy needs a pretty big PvP buff.

    For Ret, it could cause WoG to have increased crit chance. Can't really make it a HoT (thats what Eternal Flame is, after all.).
    Yea I think you're right. I'm going to edit my idea with these changes, but as ret, I think we should be given the option to increase our FoL crit chance as well as WoG, just in case we wanna stand and hard-cast. For Holy, I think WoG and Holy Shock should have their crit chance increased.

    Thanks for the feedback guys.

  9. #9
    yeah i like the idea of sacred shield also increasing ur crit chance by 30% when you are below 30% health with ss up

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    (mechanics are more important before balancing #'s, remember.) and Holy needs a pretty big PvP buff.
    Don't know where anyone gets the idea that Holy needs a buff. No RBG is complete without a Holy Paladin in it. Plenty of teams want them for Arenas. As Ret I spent a good deal of time today trying to get into a RBG group on a new realm at 1700 rating.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Don't know where anyone gets the idea that Holy needs a buff. No RBG is complete without a Holy Paladin in it. Plenty of teams want them for Arenas. As Ret I spent a good deal of time today trying to get into a RBG group on a new realm at 1700 rating.
    ...You assume anyone here is referring to PvP here... that guy you quoted is crazy (in my opinion) and you should ignore crazy people.

    This is all PvE, where we've been gibbed hard if these changes go through without any compensation.
    Last edited by Aqua; 2013-06-22 at 04:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqua View Post
    ...You assume anyone here is referring to PvP here... that guy you quoted is crazy (in my opinion) and you should ignore crazy people.

    This is all PvE, where we've been gibbed hard if these changes go through without any compensation.
    I'm talking about PVE and PVP. Ideally you want a talent that's balanced for all three specs that can be used in a variety of situations. I can't comment on whether or not Holy specifically needs a buff, but I know for a fact that Ret definitely can use some love in the survivability department (for PVP), which is why I suggested just giving Ret the Cata SS baseline.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Don't know where anyone gets the idea that Holy needs a buff. No RBG is complete without a Holy Paladin in it. Plenty of teams want them for Arenas. As Ret I spent a good deal of time today trying to get into a RBG group on a new realm at 1700 rating.
    Because Holy does need a buff. If CC'd, holy can't do anything about it. There's no fear ward, no grounding, no tremor, no immune to poly's and no Nimble Brew.

    I would say Holy is pretty low on the list of healers. Next season will be all bout Resto Sham, Disc, and Druid.

  14. #14
    Sacred Shield is awful for a talent, 120k absorb on a 2min cd? fucking locks get a 400k shield every 1 min, in 4.0.6 we could get a 50k shield every 30 sec, then it was nerfed but with CDs (since it scaled with AP) we could get it to absorb 100k+... in CATA.
    It's a shameful number.

    The tree is a about enhancing healing with different playstyles so what they need to do is make Holy Shield base for prot, make Sacred Shield base for ret and make a third new talent that makes WoG not heal anymore but instead place an absorb effect that stacks up to 50% of the target's health.

  15. #15
    That is pretty much my thinking on Sacred Shield. I actually hope they do something similar to this.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    That is pretty much my thinking on Sacred Shield. I actually hope they do something similar to this.
    Baseline Sacred Shield for Ret and Prot does sound right; maybe it should be self-only as well, since the last thing Ret needs is more abilities that can be used on others.

  17. #17
    I think that the most important change they could make is to allow the absorb effect to activate instantly. No matter how much they buff the spell, it will never be worth the GCD for it to only activate 6 seconds later. They absolutely need to make the effect instant, and compensate by increasing the cooldown so we can't spam it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    Baseline Sacred Shield for Ret and Prot does sound right; maybe it should be self-only as well, since the last thing Ret needs is more abilities that can be used on others.
    Making it baseline for prot is silly. We're strong enough already :P
    Also like being able to throw it on the other tank, when he taunts off. Overall i don't want them to change that spell a lot, since it's a fun one in my eyes.
    Quote Originally Posted by cletis1234 View Post
    I think that the most important change they could make is to allow the absorb effect to activate instantly. No matter how much they buff the spell, it will never be worth the GCD for it to only activate 6 seconds later. They absolutely need to make the effect instant, and compensate by increasing the cooldown so we can't spam it.
    It's not just activated 6 seconds later, but also 6 seconds later again.
    Even for an average ret it's 70-80kish absorb for a gcd if you take damage all the time.
    And it's clearly worth it for prot, since the vast majority have it.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by cletis1234 View Post

    Instead of waiting 6 seconds for the absorb effect to activate, why not make the absorb effect activate instantly and simply increase the cooldown of the spell to 10-15 seconds so we can't spam it? Just like ice-barrier for mages. It makes it worth spending the GCD.If Hoy or Ret want to take SS they will be sacrificing EF and SH, which means both specs, in addition to Prot, will only be casting WoG's, and much more frequently. Because of this, adding synergy between SS and WoG is even more important as an incentive to switch over to SS. If WoG's synergy with SS was also tailored differently for all three specs, it could go a long way in terms of balance and useful application for each spec.
    SS should remain as a single targeted spell creeating a protective shield (possible changes below). Even with a 10-15 second internal CD it feels to much like a more frequently swapped beacon of light.

    Quote Originally Posted by cletis1234 View Post
    -For Holy, perhaps consider raising the crit chance of WoG and Holy Shock by 20% on a shielded target.
    for holy pve:
    I don´ t like the pure stat increasmenet, althought your idea of having a synergy between WoG and SS for Holy is good.

    First of all I´d recommend crit ans Mastery to work on SS.This way you almost double the Output of the spell.
    For Holy spec you could give it 50% Transfer to BEacon and the total Output is more than doubled in the end. Imo the Transfer from BEacon shouldn´t be working as the other Transfers like a heal, but as a transfered shield, so the absorb mehcnaic of the SS remains the same.
    (Possibly this will be to strong than for pvp though).

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