Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ...
3
11
12
13
14
15
LastLast
  1. #241
    Warchief Skorpionss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bucharest, Romania
    Posts
    2,237
    I think they should add 3rd spec... and make it cost 100k gold... or 25$ >

  2. #242
    Chill guys, they will implement 3rd specc as major feature in one of next patch or exp. And the blue twit must be troll twit, I refuse being treated like idiot (remember GC's reasoning behind dumbing and removing specc trees? Exactly opposite what he twitted now).

  3. #243
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,646
    Look guys, there's only 2 reasons given in this thread so far to justify the "but people will want more" argument past tri-spec. Due to the new talent system we don't need to have PvP and PvE specs generally, the exceptions are:

    A) druids have 4 specs, it's natural druids would ask for quad spec.
    B) The argument about pve vs pvp keybinding and all that makes sense. I find it hard to believe no addon exists to cope with this issue considering I've used ones to cover this myself. I imagine people are just being inflexible. Still, it's a point.

    Changing talents is no longer changing spec. They are *completely* unrelated now. You can have any talents with any spec in your class. Stop bringing it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    The biggest reason for me to deny it is the "if you give a mouse a cookie" scenario.

    If you give the players 2 specs, they will want 3. If you give them 3, then they want a 4th tree for all classes. If you give them a 4th tree then they want 4 specs.

    It continues until you reach either a point of total lunacy (10 specs/trees anyone?) or you give up and say "no more specs, just have everything baseline."


    For those saying that 3 is all we'd ever want, I passed by a "4th spec ideas" thread on my way in here. It's already happening.
    That train of thought died when mop put in specs that are the same no matter what you use them for. Before mop yes that was an issue, but now say a pve holy pally wants to pvp they get the same abilities for being holy no matter what they use it for. And talents are changeable at any time anywhere already.

    The way it was before they would need a whole new holy spec to do both. Before you would run into a "I need a spec for this I need a spec for that over and over." But now every spec is just that spec no matter what it is used for.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    No one needs tri-spec... I repeat, NO ONE!
    Stop acting like a bunch of spoiled little children that want more chocolate and throw a tantrum if they don't get it...
    No one needed mounts at 20, or flying at 60, or the elimination of stats like armor penetration, feral attack power, and weapon skills, or for Blizzard to try hard at making all specs viable in raiding and PvP. But they've done it, and all have been embraced by players as good quality of life improvements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    ...We have the ability to do it now. But now, we have 2 out of 3 active at all times. Once we have 3 / 3 active, how much longer before the people already screaming for a 4th spec get it? Once we all get a 4th spec, how long them before people make the same fight to get 4/4? Once we have all 4, people will again be bored and ask for a 5th spec, thinking it will make a difference. See where this is going? I think Blizz did an awesome job offering Dual spec.
    People are already campaigning for a 4th spec, if it happens it stands to reason that a quad-spec campaign would start shortly thereafter (even if tri-spec isn't in yet).

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyra View Post
    and while it's a mild bit of an annoyance to have to return to Orgrimmar to do this, it's not the worst thing in the world. I think there's bigger and better things Blizz can be developing instead.
    I agree. I would rather see them balance the specs first.
    That will only happen if Blizzard stops doing anything else at all. As long as they keep adding new content, new levels, new abilities, "balance" will be a work in progress. It's a colossal system with countless variables, all pushing and pulling against each other. Despite that, over the years, they've learned to keep it a lot closer to equilibrium than it was in vanilla.

    And the thing is, tri-spec isn't that much work. If it was datamined from PTR files, then it's already in place. All they have to do is turn it on. Like dual-spec, it's fire-and-forget. Once it's on, there's no big effort of upkeep they need to give it.


    I think Ghostcrawler's real argument and reason for referencing rogues is that people are going to go into a raid and every one of them will use the "best" spec on each boss. It will be the new cookie-cutter. Instead of the old way of copying the top raiders' talent points, many players will turn on the spec that the hardcores say is best on a particular fight, regardless of their own ability with it. This already happens, and probably has since dual-spec was introduced, but with Talent 2.0 its far easier for pure DPSers to feel pressured into it.

    This new talent and spec system has exposed how little variation there was between individual players using the same spec. Let's be honest, everyone used essentially the same talent build and glyphs anyway, based on what the theory crafters calculated. Today, the only major differentiation between pure class' specs that has an expense seems to be found in stat priority. Your gear may vary a bit, and your gems and reforges will get changed when respeccing. Blizzard ought to embrace that fact, and further emphasize the need for different stats in different specs.


    Or, if I can wish for a moment, they could introduce a new element to the mix. As it stands now, we ought to get two more glyph slots at level 100, and a new row of talents at 105. For a level 95 endgame there could be another character customization option, something that stretches across specs, or even across classes, and would create a significant enough difference to fill spec choices.

    Dual spec is great now when there are only three options for it to choose from. But imagine that each class has two or three viable options (subspecs, PotT, etc.) added that have to be changed via a trainer. Suddenly you've got six or nine possible setups to choose from in your dualspec. At that time, tri-spec would be a big addition, while still leaving a lot of possibilities on the shelf.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Look guys, there's only 2 reasons given in this thread so far to justify the "but people will want more" argument past tri-spec. Due to the new talent system we don't need to have PvP and PvE specs generally, the exceptions are:

    A) druids have 4 specs, it's natural druids would ask for quad spec.
    And there in lies the issue. Druids were nerfed and given a 4th spec. The Bear/Cat was OP and had to be split. So they were nerfed and forced to choose between them. Druids will ask to have access to all 4. Blizz would grant it. All other classes would be " QQ Blizz - Druid favoritism" and then all classed would get their 4th spec. Once everyone had a 4th spec, they would use the same logic to request quad spec as they do now requesting tri spec. The question is, does it end there or does it keep going? Knowing people and their demands, I would bet 1 year's salary on the fact that it would keep going.

  7. #247
    High Overlord Eclypse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Look guys, there's only 2 reasons given in this thread so far to justify the "but people will want more" argument past tri-spec. Due to the new talent system we don't need to have PvP and PvE specs generally, the exceptions are:

    A) druids have 4 specs, it's natural druids would ask for quad spec.
    B) The argument about pve vs pvp keybinding and all that makes sense. I find it hard to believe no addon exists to cope with this issue considering I've used ones to cover this myself. I imagine people are just being inflexible. Still, it's a point.

    Changing talents is no longer changing spec. They are *completely* unrelated now. You can have any talents with any spec in your class. Stop bringing it up.
    You are right. The only problem is that most people lack the ability to think before speaking/writing. There is absolutely no issues what so ever in having 3 specs... only druids players could be upset by it but tbh, I'm pretty sure most druids players wont end up playing all 4 specs anyway.
    So all this "then people will ask for x more specs" is just a pathetic argument that makes no sense at all.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by whatthefudge View Post
    I'd love to hear you elaborate on this moronic statement.
    Doesn't need to be elaborated on. GC is pretty much a dick on Twitter. The only reason he doesn't get canned like that Microsoft fellow is that he's more eloquent at it, and Blizzard just doesn't give a shit.

  9. #249
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,646
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    And there in lies the issue. Druids were nerfed and given a 4th spec. The Bear/Cat was OP and had to be split. So they were nerfed and forced to choose between them. Druids will ask to have access to all 4. Blizz would grant it. All other classes would be " QQ Blizz - Druid favoritism" and then all classed would get their 4th spec. Once everyone had a 4th spec, they would use the same logic to request quad spec as they do now requesting tri spec. The question is, does it end there or does it keep going? Knowing people and their demands, I would bet 1 year's salary on the fact that it would keep going.
    You made 2 ridiculous leaps in logic here.

    A) that blizzard would spend the time (months of dedicated work) to make a new spec for the other 10 classes. That's more work than a tier would bring. That would NEVER do that in response to a tiny amount of whining for a tiny proportion of the community. They would do it if they wanted classes to have 4 specs and felt the massive workload was worth it.

    B) People asking for a fifth spec will undoubtedly happen, but I highly doubt that blizzard would then in the already ridiculous scenario go and waste time making 5th, 6th, etc. specs for everyone.

    Also, you should never go anywhere near a casino, or anywhere you can make bets. You'd be out of money ridiculously fast if you are willing to throw down a years salary on such a bold statement you need to have evidence to back it up.

    As a notice to the general thread, people have been playing tri-spec manually since vanilla (with 3+ gear sets as someone said was unreasonable). It's common place among people who play multiple aspects of the game, I'd say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #250
    GC is full of it on this. Go take a look at Rift and how many specs they let you run around with. Guess what? Shit works just fine, you can have your Tank, DPS, Healing, PvP DPS, PvP Healing and Grinding spec all set up and ready to go. Press the button and BAM you're specs changed and you're good to go. Doesn't make the class feel any less unique, doesn't make me feel bad that other people might be using the same spec. This whole idea of having to go back to a trainer to relearn how to swing your dagger a certain way is stupid.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Najja View Post
    GC is full of it on this. Go take a look at Rift and how many specs they let you run around with. Guess what? Shit works just fine, you can have your Tank, DPS, Healing, PvP DPS, PvP Healing and Grinding spec all set up and ready to go. Press the button and BAM you're specs changed and you're good to go. Doesn't make the class feel any less unique, doesn't make me feel bad that other people might be using the same spec. This whole idea of having to go back to a trainer to relearn how to swing your dagger a certain way is stupid.
    GW1 did this ages ago. Then they took it a step further and allowed you to save and load templates. So I could go online and find a monk template and load it into my saved templates and bam all my points and gear and everything were already set up. Was an awesome system especially for heroes. It was also great with armor templates for PvP because if you had a PvP character rather then spending 30 minutes doing all of your gear with the right insignia's you could just preload it. Blizz finally took the hint and made the equipment manager. By the way, people still play and love GW1 and the game isn't broken like a lot of people here are saying WoW would be.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Najja View Post
    GC is full of it on this. Go take a look at Rift and how many specs they let you run around with. Guess what? Shit works just fine, you can have your Tank, DPS, Healing, PvP DPS, PvP Healing and Grinding spec all set up and ready to go. Press the button and BAM you're specs changed and you're good to go. Doesn't make the class feel any less unique, doesn't make me feel bad that other people might be using the same spec. This whole idea of having to go back to a trainer to relearn how to swing your dagger a certain way is stupid.
    Which is why Rift is on the verge of eclipsing WoW as the #1 MMO?

    Sarcasm aside, GC's point isn't invalid. I want tri-spec, but I can see where he's coming from on this. Tri-spec would be great for my paladin, as it opens up three wildly different roles, but what about that rogue he mentioned? Are there any folks in this discussion who's main or only 90 is a pure DPS? What would you actually do with three specs? How would it affect you if you're raiding tier 15 and PvPing every week?

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    That would NEVER do that in response to a tiny amount of whining for a tiny proportion of the community.

    B) People asking for a fifth spec will undoubtedly happen, but I highly doubt that blizzard would then in the already ridiculous scenario go and waste time making 5th, 6th, etc. specs for everyone.
    You must be new here. It's ok. Everything we have in game now, came from the "tiny amount of whining from a tiny portion of the community". LFD, exists because people wanted a way to queue without looking for a group. LFR exists, because people wanted to raid without having to be in a raid guild, or because they have tight schedules. Other things "whining" brought:

    Mounts - Down from level 40 to 20
    Flight in Azeroth, not just Outlands and Northrend
    No need for a fishing pole
    No need for spell reagents
    Transmogs
    Reforging
    Void Storage
    Solo raiding on old content
    Account wide Achievements, pets, and mounts
    BoA heirlooms
    BG queues - instead of a battlemaster or walking to the BG

    and hundreds of other little items in the game. Anyone who thinks the player base (especially the casuals) have no affect on Blizz as far as implementation is fooling themselves. Also, should anyone ever offer you a job as a marketing strategist for knowing the public, you should just say no.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 11:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    GW1 did this ages ago. Then they took it a step further and allowed you to save and load templates. So I could go online and find a monk template and load it into my saved templates and bam all my points and gear and everything were already set up. Was an awesome system especially for heroes. It was also great with armor templates for PvP because if you had a PvP character rather then spending 30 minutes doing all of your gear with the right insignia's you could just preload it. Blizz finally took the hint and made the equipment manager. By the way, people still play and love GW1 and the game isn't broken like a lot of people here are saying WoW would be.
    And yet here we all sit playing WoW in the high numbers while GW1 and Rift are just oh-so-successful.

  14. #254
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,646
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    You must be new here. It's ok. Everything we have in game now, came from the "tiny amount of whining from a tiny portion of the community". LFD, exists because people wanted a way to queue without looking for a group. LFR exists, because people wanted to raid without having to be in a raid guild, or because they have tight schedules. Other things "whining" brought:
    No, it didn't. Feedback is an important part of anything but it is rarely the REASON something occurs. Ji Firepaw's quest text changing was changed due to feedback. Mists of Pandaria as an expansion was NOT due to feedback, yet some people wanted pandaren lore since WC3. You see the difference?

    and hundreds of other little items in the game. Anyone who thinks the player base (especially the casuals) have no affect on Blizz as far as implementation is fooling themselves. Also, should anyone ever offer you a job as a marketing strategist for knowing the public, you should just say no.
    Anyone who thinks the feedback is the driving factor over actual data is the one fooling themselves here. Maybe it'll help you with your inventions if you took that into account.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Mists of Pandaria as an expansion was NOT due to feedback, yet some people wanted pandaren lore since WC3. You see the difference?

    Anyone who thinks the feedback is the driving factor over actual data is the one fooling themselves here.
    People wanting something... is feedback. I rest my case. Have a nice day

  16. #256
    Brewmaster
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,257
    He came with a valid reason. That is my 2 cents for this discussion.

  17. #257
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,646
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    People wanting something... is feedback. I rest my case. Have a nice day
    Did you miss like every blue quote ever regarding the decisions to release MoP? Did you miss all the "We wanted to add pandas in TBC"? The constant mention of samwise's obsession with pandas in his art, etc. etc.?

    Oh wait, you are the glorious customer and you are always right! It's people like you in my line of business we call: timewasters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    And yet here we all sit playing WoW in the high numbers while GW1 and Rift are just oh-so-successful.
    GW1 sold 6.5 million copies and Rift has sold over 1 million giving Trion a $100 million revenue in 2011 I would hardly call that unsuccessful and since when did we judge whether or not a system is good based on how many subscribers the game it comes from has? I guess we should ask for AOE looting to be removed as that was inspired by Rift.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    GW1 sold 6.5 million copies and Rift has sold over 1 million giving Trion a $100 million revenue in 2011 I would hardly call that unsuccessful and since when did we judge whether or not a system is good based on how many subscribers the game it comes from has? I guess we should ask for AOE looting to be removed as that was inspired by Rift.
    And that's great... but how did it go last year? or even the first half of this year? How many of the WoW killers did little more than give the public ideas for things to ask for in WoW? And once wow gave in and provided such features, how many of those games still hold the attention of the 6.5 million people who bought it? Does GW1 even still have 1.5M players? Or Rift. After these past 3 years, and the amazing launch it had, how many players has it retained? And yes. Thank you Rift for AoE looting. You gave us something great before fading out in the MMO sea of lackluster.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 12:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Did you miss like every blue quote ever regarding the decisions to release MoP? Did you miss all the "We wanted to add pandas in TBC"? The constant mention of samwise's obsession with pandas in his art, etc. etc.?

    Oh wait, you are the glorious customer and you are always right! It's people like you in my line of business we call: timewasters.
    Really? I point out the flaw in your logic and this is the strawman you want me to look at without laughing? Yeah, corporations have never said anything that wasn't true right? WC3 launched July 2002. They mentioned "TBC" but never put it in. Yet there were plenty of threads since then asking for Pandaren to be added as a playable race. There is even reference to a Pandaren who helped build Orgrimmar (or some other major horde city).

    Feedback and requests from the people prompted the ultimate release of Pandaren. There is a poll on this very site from years ago that had Pandaren as the leading winner in a "Next Playable Race" poll. If you fail to see it is the fans and their requests that drive this game, I cannot help you or explain it any other way than I already have.

  20. #260
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,646
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Feedback and requests from the people prompted the ultimate release of Pandaren. There is a poll on this very site from years ago that had Pandaren as the leading winner in a "Next Playable Race" poll. If you fail to see it is the fans and their requests that drive this game, I cannot help you or explain it any other way than I already have.
    Correlation does not equal Causation. A very important life lesson most of us learn in school.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •