"Real reason" we aren't getting Tri-Spec

[AVPaul]

Tri-spec? While we're at it, bosses should just give you the loot once you enter the instance. Or wait, why go through the trouble of entering the instance when the bosses could just send you gear via mail?! Ah, damn, yeah, you'd have to run to a mailbox... Hmm, let's see, why wouldn't the bosses just walk up to you and hand you the gear? We don't want to inconvenience the players the slightest bit, do we?...

We have dual spec. Why on earth are you complaining? Seriously, does everything have to come on a silver platter for you? Are you that special that Blizzard has to go all out of their way just so you wouldn't be inconvenienced?

Play the game as it is. Appreciate it as it is. Or leave it be, as it is.

When I was saying, leave talent system as is, appreciate it as it is, play the game as it is, etc., GC just said, that it will be better for game - deal with it. And, as I already said, this change hurted my class/spec-related feeling much more. And nobody asked for this change. But tri-spec will be really helpfull to many players and many players are asking for it. So where is the logic? Making changes, that nobody asking for, without caring about any negative impact, without caring about tons of negative feedback, and refusing to make changes, that are very usefull for many players, just because some bunch of oldfags thinks it's just bad? Why wasn't they so carefully, when they was implementing CRZ for example? I'm just sick of this stupid conservatism and orthodoxy, especially when it's used only when it's favourable for developers. So. Tri-spec will strongly improve my gaming experience. Negative impact is just ridiculous or even zero, if we will compare it to negative impact from other recent changes. It just must be implemented. Period.

[-Superman-]

Considering GW2 was released last year I doubt the sales of GW1 were that high. But really who cares? The number of sales or subscribers a game has is not an indication of quality of some of the systems they have.

Why do you feel the need to bash other games in order to validate your opinion?

If people intend to use other games to support their opinions, they should prepare to have those games cross examined.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 01:19 PM ----------

GW2 was never meant to be a WoW killer. Anet even stated this multiple times. As per your argument, since GW1 doesn't have a sub fee, all the players that bought it could still be considered players so the number has likely gone up.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/04...ion-milestone/

It peaked at 6M 4 years ago. Assuming everyone still plays...

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 01:20 PM ----------

Because lord knows Blizzard has never lifted a game idea from another company.

Wow, I actually typed that without bursting into full-out laughter.

Oh, I fully thanked the other games for their contributions. It was good to see their technology assimilated into a winning franchise

[Pann]

If people intend to use other games to support their opinions, they should prepare to have those games cross examined.

Are you being serious??? Cross examined??? Is that what you call dismissing any system another game might use regardless of its quality or merits based on that game has not sold any many copies as WOW?

[-Superman-]

Are you being serious??? Cross examined??? Is that what you call dismissing any system another game might use regardless of its quality or merits based on that game has not sold any many copies as WOW?

When it comes to board games, the first one the majority of people would think of is Monopoly. When it comes to MMOs, the first in line is World of Warcraft. The only reason any of these clones even exist is because of WoW's success. The only reason WoW exists is because EQ was getting horrible. Everyone comes from somewhere, but the hallmark of MMOs which has defined gaming in this genre for the past (almost) decade, is WoW. So yes, let me applaud the little people who tried, and failed, to replace WoW AND who have contributed to new features which have been implemented.

[Montyishere]

Tri-spec? While we're at it, bosses should just give you the loot once you enter the instance. Or wait, why go through the trouble of entering the instance when the bosses could just send you gear via mail?! Ah, damn, yeah, you'd have to run to a mailbox... Hmm, let's see, why wouldn't the bosses just walk up to you and hand you the gear? We don't want to inconvenience the players the slightest bit, do we?...

We have dual spec. Why on earth are you complaining? Seriously, does everything have to come on a silver platter for you? Are you that special that Blizzard has to go all out of their way just so you wouldn't be inconvenienced?

Play the game as it is. Appreciate it as it is. Or leave it be, as it is.

Ghostcrawler has repeatedly posted flawed logic why he thinks Tri Spec is bad. If he used this logic consistently then there never would have been duel spec since having two specs takes away from the unique nature of the character.

Also, that is another point, are you playing WOW or is your character? I mean this, when I play, people know me and know that I have many alts. They want to play with ME and it is one of my alts that will determine what character I play, i.e. tank, heals, dps. It is THIS reasoning that many people wish Tri Spec, so they can play with their friends and not worry about the character. Another way to put it. It is more important for the character to play or the person behind it.

The character is NOT the most important thing in the game, it is the PERSON behind it and if it is easier for friends to play together because of Tri Spec, just like the same reasoning as duel spec, then blizzard needs to take off the blinders and realize this.

Lastly, as a company, they need to realize that the needs of the customers means more then unilateral thinking on their part. I believe one reason why they lose people is that they are not as concerned about the customer as they should be.

Just a thought.

[Florena]

Ghostcrawler has repeatedly posted flawed logic why he thinks Tri Spec is bad. If he used this logic consistently then there never would have been duel spec since having two specs takes away from the unique nature of the character.

Also, that is another point, are you playing WOW or is your character? I mean this, when I play, people know me and know that I have many alts. They want to play with ME and it is one of my alts that will determine what character I play, i.e. tank, heals, dps. It is THIS reasoning that many people wish Tri Spec, so they can play with their friends and not worry about the character. Another way to put it. It is more important for the character to play or the person behind it.

The character is NOT the most important thing in the game, it is the PERSON behind it and if it is easier for friends to play together because of Tri Spec, just like the same reasoning as duel spec, then blizzard needs to take off the blinders and realize this.

Lastly, as a company, they need to realize that the needs of the customers means more then unilateral thinking on their part. I believe one reason why they lose people is that they are not as concerned about the customer as they should be.

Just a thought.

How the hell does not having tri spec keep you from playing with your friends?

There's also such a thing as a middle ground between two extremes. Just because blizzard has made certain aspects of the game more convenient doesn't mean they should completely do away with character uniqueness when it comes to specs. If anything I'd say that even dual spec isn't really needed anymore with the ability to swap out talents at any point. DS was added as a means to help alleviate some of the troubles with the old talent spec without making talent specs themselves unimportant choices. Saying that 'oh, they've made OTHER changes to make things convenient = they should completely remove character uniqueness by giving everyone permanent access to all specs' is silly in my eyes. Sure, a couple classes like rogues could use a rework to make the spec feel more unique, but I'm against the idea of taking away people having different specs altogether.

[-Superman-]

How the hell does not having tri spec keep you from playing with your friends?

Did not say it prevents him from it. He said, it would be even easier if he had all 3 specs and did not have to switch characters so much. He is in favor of Tri-spec.

[Mirishka]

Few things annoy me more than the bitching about homogenizing classes. For all the 'I liked my class when it was a unique special snowflake' whining, you'd think that people would actually stop to think about what that meant.

It SUCKED for paladin/druid tanks when warriors were the only ones with spells/abilities to handle deadly mechanics like Shear.

It SUCKED for warrior/druid tanks when paladins were 'the' AOE tanks and therefore the only ones fully capable of handling stuff like Hyjal raid gauntlet.

It SUCKED for everyone else when warriors were the only real tank, priests the only real healer, pures the only real dps.

It SUCKED for your raid if you didn't have a shaman because you didn't have heroism/bloodlust.

I could list dozens more. Easily.

Classes are more similar because they had to be in order for people to be able to actually use the classes they want, when they want, and to play/raid with the people they want. And besides, there is still solid diversity between classes. Tanking with a warrior feels completely different than tanking with a paladin, and tanking with a monk doesn't play like either, or a DK or druid. Does a hunter feel the same as a mage, or a rogue? No, not at all. Hell, some specs within one class feel quite different, like Arms to Fury. Homogenizing is another fun word people throw around, and with far less understanding/basis than they actually think they have.

And most importantly of all.... its a video game, FFS. Do you people sit around raging that Luigi has similar abilities to Mario? Do you make posts on forums about how homogenized Nintendo's plumbers have become? 'OMG nintendo, every character has a buttstomp. WTF Miyamoto y u homogenizing the characters? I remember when Mario and Luigi were completely different. Luigi jumped further! Nintendo should fire u, Miyamoto'

^ That is how... ridiculous some of you sound.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 09:59 PM ----------

Lastly, as a company, they need to realize that the needs of the customers means more then unilateral thinking on their part. I believe one reason why they lose people is that they are not as concerned about the customer as they should be.

Just a thought.

No, just no. The biggest mistake Blizz could ever make is letting this whining, self-entitled, special-snowflake 'community' design WoW for them.

It is Blizzard's game. Not ours. They decide what is best for the game. Not you. Not I.

And I actually happen to agree with GC to some extent. If people can just pop between any and all specs at any time, you aren't a 'prot warrior with a fury offspec' anymore, you're just a warrior.

Oh and the moment they give us a 3rd spec, people will ask for a fourth. Period. Just like when it was announced we got dual spec, a week didn't pass before people were asking about upping it to three. 'well since u gave us 2 why not 3?' Players are very much 'please sir I'd like some more' instead of, you know, appreciating what we have.

[Raiju]

Oh and the moment they give us a 3rd spec, people will ask for a fourth. Period. Just like when it was announced we got dual spec, a week didn't pass before people were asking about upping it to three. 'well since u gave us 2 why not 3?' Players are very much 'please sir I'd like some more' instead of, you know, appreciating what we have.

You had to respec to change talents. Invalid argument as has been mentioned for 14 pages.

[Najja]

Tri-spec? While we're at it, bosses should just give you the loot once you enter the instance. Or wait, why go through the trouble of entering the instance when the bosses could just send you gear via mail?! Ah, damn, yeah, you'd have to run to a mailbox... Hmm, let's see, why wouldn't the bosses just walk up to you and hand you the gear? We don't want to inconvenience the players the slightest bit, do we?...

We have dual spec. Why on earth are you complaining? Seriously, does everything have to come on a silver platter for you? Are you that special that Blizzard has to go all out of their way just so you wouldn't be inconvenienced?

Play the game as it is. Appreciate it as it is. Or leave it be, as it is.

Slippery Slope fallacy much? Tri-spec isn't going to break the game, its not going to make things just roll over and die, its a matter of convenience. Play as it is? So we should never want for the game we play to be better? To add new cool/helpful/time-saving features? We should just sit here complacent with our thumbs up our asses? Yeah sounds like an awesome idea.

[Montyishere]

It is amazing the twisted logic of some people. Here is something to think about. How does ONE person having the opportunity of being Tri spec take away from another? If someone wants to just be a combat rogue, how does my desire to Heal or Tank or DPS as my group needs me take away from your being a Combat Rogue? I am not playing with you am I? Don't I play for the sake of my own play and those of my friends?

People are funny. When they think that giving something MORE means less. Somehow, my playing Tri spec will mean something to them. This is not a zero sum game. It is a communal game made up of small groups and having the option of having more opportunities to enjoy does not take away from those that choose NOT to use all three or four specs.

As to the taking away from the uniqueness of the game. Isn't it MY choice to decide if I want to take away from MY uniqueness?

Think about it

[melodramocracy]

People are funny. When they think that giving something MORE means less. Somehow, my playing Tri spec will mean something to them. This is not a zero sum game. It is a communal game made up of small groups and having the option of having more opportunities to enjoy does not take away from those that choose NOT to use all three or four specs.

While I won't focus on the tri-spec argument (because to me, it really is an irrelevant one no matter if it's implemented or not), you might want to consider the notion that decisions without consequences, have an effect of having less importance to them. Granted, consequences is a heavy word and has a negative connotation to it... lets instead use 'limitations'. This is true in video games, and it's true in 'real' life as well.

I think folks who have played a lot of older MMO's probably get this, even if it's on an unconscious level, because 'back then', when you decided what you wanted to do in the game, well... that's the road you traveled. And in many games, unlearning what you knew and choosing a different path often had a penalty along with it. The games were, as you know, such a time investment that alts were sort of a rarity unless you had a LOT of time, or were just starting over completely. So you put effort, and a lot of thought into what you wanted, and you just played... and likely didn't change unless you felt quite hampered.

So we now have this game, in which the only irreversible decision you have for a character is what class he's going to be. EVERY single other aspect can be changed at any point, there is no effective risk of loss, or setback (unless your account is compromised). Actually, the most severe 'decision' made in this game is that when you re-gem or re-enchant, you destroy the old one.

All of these things naturally make the daily ins and outs of the game fairly trivial, and fairly forgettable. People take them for granted as conveniences, and of course want more of them.

Lets look at things from a different view. What if Blizzard implemented an option in the game where, if you already have 1 max level character, you can make as many more as you like, PTR style? These characters would start out fully decked in last tier gear, have 5 or 10k gold, and 1 profession of your choice already maxed. This of course, would be completely optional, and if you wanted to continue leveling alts the old fashioned way, you could.

This is certainly a convenience, and again, isn't something you have to use if you don't like it. Is this something you'd vote for?

[Montyishere]

You make some good points but avoid the main point of Tri spec.

As to your example of getting alts. To answer your question, no I would not do that because I did enjoy leveling up my alts but I would have no problem with someone doing that if they wished as it does not limit or effect me. Blizz is trying to do this in some way with the Refer a Friend program. They also did it almost to the point with DKs. Remember you can get a level 55DK if you had a max toon. I don't remember a big scream about that.

As to your point of older games. Although that has some merit to your argument, it is not germain to the topic as it has not bearing on it. We are discussing the idea and merits of Tri Spec.

I would appreciate your input into that as it is very apparent you are one of the better writers in this forum and give things good thought.

[AVPaul]

Don't tell us about "old games" as it brings us back to "why line is drawn here" topic. I mean before Cata's beta or may be before WotLK there really was some "rules", "logic" and etc. in this game to deal with. And both players and developers was defending them. But eventually Blizzard started to "brake" this "rules". First they were trying to find some strong explanations for this changes: mana should be meanfull, threat must be meanfull, you have to make choices, blah blah blah (total BS, as we know now). And at some point they became too lazy to even provide some explanations - now changes are made without any strong reasons. Why we need heroic scenarios? Nobody knows and nobody asked for this. And players became too sick of all this fighting for old things, that they now just don't care about it anymore. And so it just looks so funny, when GC pretends, that he is BC/Vanilla oldfag and he protects this old sweet values due to old logic and rules. Don't make me laugh. It's just looks so hypocritical. The whole game is "broken" for sake of convience. Almost nothing left from your old game. And he stopped at the point, where long awaited feature, very usefull for many and many players, should be at least implemented? I don't belive in this BS. I mean, if you and GC defend "old rules" so much, may be we should bring back old talent system, remove CRZ, remove flying mounts in Azeroth, bring back arrows, remove some spells from classes, who hasn't them in old times and etc.? No? Why? There were some reasons to implement this: the game is evolving and it brings more and more convience to players. Tri-spec - is just a QOL change too.

[Deleted]

I would lovev to have Tri-Spec but if they still b... about it after 8 years to bring a simple feature like that then i dont care anymore.
A Trip-Spec was way more important in the past where you could choose your own Talents, nowadays there is no big reason to have one.