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  1. #1

    Dungeons and Raids have no atmosphere and adventure in them.

    So I have dinged 90 few weeks ago, did some dungeons and raids, but I can't bring myself to do more. I like mechanics and how complicated they are, but I feel like Blizzard used all of their energy on complexity of boss fights and totally forgot about everything else. Where is the epic feel of dungeons, great story ideas, environment and atmosphere? One minute I'm figting aliens from Distrit 9, other minute I'm killing kung-fu pandas and to finish it off I have to kill some fucking rabbits, but wait, BAM and I'm back in Scarlet monastery. Seriously, wtf? It just doesn't make any sense. Some people even told me that main boss of this expansion is supposed to be horde warchief. I'm sure there is some super clever explanation to this, but let's be honest here. How many people actually read quest texts? How many of us are true lore nerds? Most of us are just absorbing what is on the surface - dungeon and world atmosphere, adventure, music, custscenes and some badass NPCs, that's it. This time surface isn't as good as it used to be.

  2. #2
    Its all about gear...
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  3. #3
    They could've done a better job reintroducing Scarlet Monastery and Scholomance, like they did with SFK and DM in Cata. Make an entirely new quest chain, featuring all the new bosses and how they worked to their new jobs. The entire ''Whitemane survived and ressed everyone, thats how we got 2 new dungeons!'' is just cheap...

    The MoP dungeons have IN MY OPINION not a real atmosphere

  4. #4
    Thats kinda the problem. The lore behind those dungeons, although being well explained and established, is plain riddiculous. The dungeons themselves are insultingly easy and are pretty much "VP runs", making their name (heroic) a mockery. I usually am agains mindless nostalgia and feel glad that WoW is moving on, but vanilla dungeons certainly had more spirit and sense of discovery/adventure in them. Even Wrath Heroics (even being run mostly for easy emblems) felt way more engaging and encouraged to communicate in order to win.

    Heroic dungeons in this state should be removed from the game. I'm serious, Scenarios, LFR and Dailies are even more viable choice of VP grind, and they have way more spirit in them than current heroics. Boring, tedious and forgettable.

  5. #5
    If you choose to bypass the lore (Quest Text, Lorewalker Cho exploration achievs), you won't get the lore idea behind the mechanics. For example, take this sentence:

    One minute I'm figting aliens from Distrit 9, other minute I'm killing kung-fu pandas and to finish it off I have to kill some fucking rabbits, but wait, BAM and I'm back in Scarlet monastery. Seriously, wtf? It just doesn't make any sense.
    You could alter it to:

    One minute I'm figting Nagas in a underwater environment, other minute I'm dealing with Black Dragonflight supporters and to finish it off I have to kill some Lobster, but wait, BAM and I'm back in Vortex Pinnacle dealing with Wind Elementals. Seriously, wtf? It just doesn't make any sense.
    Or...

    One minute I'm figting Giant-sized humans with spears, other minute I'm killing Blue Dragonflight creatures and to finish it off I have to kill some fucking Big Red Dragon that I was helping a minute ago during quests, but wait, BAM and I'm back in Trial of Crusader riding horses. Seriously, wtf? It just doesn't make any sense.
    Going a little back further...

    One minute I'm figting Red Orcs, other minute I'm dealing with Naga and their Broken slaves and to finish it off I have to kill some hydras and big-legged thing, but wait, BAM and I'm back in Botanica dealing with Kael'thas peeps and plants. Seriously, wtf? It just doesn't make any sense.
    Even further...

    One minute I'm clearing Orgrimmar basement of Cultists, other minute I'm dealing with Centaur Spirits and to finish it off I have to kill some female Elemental ugliness, but wait, BAM and I'm back in Scarlet Monastery. Seriously, wtf? It just doesn't make any sense.

  6. #6
    What if I told you, I raid at hardcore level and read all the quests?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkwolfgang View Post
    If you choose to bypass the lore (Quest Text, Lorewalker Cho exploration achievs), you won't get the lore idea behind the mechanics. For example, take this sentence:



    You could alter it to:



    Or...



    Going a little back further...



    Even further...
    Yeah, but you do have to admit, no matter why we're there or what we're there to do, those old dungeons had a lot more atmosphere in them than the current ones do. Scholo and Strat, LBRS and UBRS - they all felt pretty cool when you ran them. You could tell more thought went into them than "Hey, what gimmick can we put in this room?" Maraudon even had a green and orange side, and both were different - where's something like that now?

  8. #8
    Well they had like 6 7 years of development for Vanilla/TBC/WotLK dungeons and raids and zones, they can't invest that much on recent raids and dungeons anymore. Hope Titan can bring that awesomeness again

  9. #9
    High Overlord BellularGaming's Avatar
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    I think the raids do but I certainly agree about dungeons. Not exactly sure how to fix it - everyone mentality is about getting the max gear / Vp per hour during those runs.
    I am a youtuber! I do daily World of Warcraft news, lore videos, Q&As and long dicussion videos! You can find my channel at http://bit.ly/Bellular

  10. #10
    I think in a way Blizzard has become too "rigid" in the sense that everything they do is too thought out. They look at things on paper and try to make them exactly one way. It's almost like there is a little less heart in it now.

    They would do good to focus more on the immersion that the game use to have. But that isn't to say the game is that bad off.

  11. #11
    Pro tip, the Dungeons have a better story if you do them while lvling in the zones they reside, Jade temple is a good ending to jade forest, Stormstout brewery is a great continuation of Chen's story through valley of the 4 winds, Shado pan monastery is a conclusion of the shado pan story in kunli.. the few instances that are heroic only dont entirely fit the whole story, like SM/Scholo, but those where brought back as Fan Favorites nothing more. hell even scholo finishes up Lillain Voss's story which alot of ppl wanted. the problem is YOU, you are the one that is power lvling to 90 then queuing randomly and hoping to make sense of it all, i made it a point to do each lvl up dungeon on the way to 90 and they where quite immersive to me, cause i actually Read quests and dialog

    and you complain that without reading quests you dont get it, that there needs to be "cut scenes" how many fucking cut scenes where there Pre cata? you say theres no adventure, but im sure you where just following the tank who had been there 20 times before, first time i do a 5 man i get 4 of my friends and take it slow, kill everything, look for achivements and shit, this game is only what you make of it, you cant take the easy route not read the provided explanation then bitch about how you didnt feel immersed
    Last edited by Deadmedic; 2013-04-28 at 05:12 PM.
    Rejoice, For very bad things are about to happen...

  12. #12
    I think you all need to lighten up and stop complaining about something that isnt wrong.

    The QQ makes my head ache...

  13. #13
    I wish people would stop ignoring the lore then complaining that it doesnt make sense...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    Yeah, but you do have to admit
    No!

    I see where OP and you are coming from but it's just a matter of personal opinion. And Bellular pointed something interesting: "everyone's mentality is about getting the max gear / VP per hour". First issue is "everyone". If it was really everyone no one would be complaining. Some people like to rush content and ignore lore. Some people don't. Second issue is... for some people this isn't an issue. So, in order to attend to a wider public, you can't create a huge dungeon without people complaining, specially with LFD feature. How many people left your groups in HoO? What about Shado-Pan Monastery?

    In my opinion, Shado-Pan Monastery has an amazing scenario, interesting boss fights, some nasty trash. But hey... it is not unusual to see people leaving the group when they see it is SPM. Point is, LFD groups you up with random people. So part of the design has to be around those. They even created Challenge Modes to bring back the coordination from the "good ol' days" back to 5-man runs. Actually, you can't really compare a Challenge Mode run to a Heroic Run back in BC. It's a lot more coordination/group skill required if you consider a Gold Run.

    So, in my point of view, the Lore is still there. So is the feeling, the challenge. You just aren't obligated to deal with it. If you are really a Lore fan, you will see Lore all around. Same for Epic Feeling. Same if you are looking for something challenging..

  15. #15
    More dungeons and raids need to be like Dragon Soul.

    lol k after taking that in, there's a reason why. Dragon Soul was a completely unique raid. Re-done environments, no real 'dungeon', and the final fight wasn't the usual deal of the final boss waiting for the heroes. Had DS been done properly, unique models, pre-established bosses, a better story prior to and after entering the raid, it would have been the best raid off all time.

    More instances need to be engaging. That is why I love scenarios. It's more than just the standard kill trash and bosses and loot them feel. You feel like your part of a story and closing a chapter. The best dungeon in MoP imo is Shado-Pan, simply because it is the most engaging. You feel as if you are there to save the Shado-Pan while at the same time stopping the Sha. More work needs to be though.

    Dungeon quest shouldn't be a one time thing, they should be repeatable every run, and require you to do more than just kill x or loot x. I feel if Blizzard can merge the story immersion of Scenarios and the sense of progression you get in DS, and add that into their dungeons, I have a feeling a lot more people would be running LFD.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    I think you all need to lighten up and stop complaining about something that isnt wrong.

    The QQ makes my head ache...
    Don't read "QQ" maybe? People have opinions, If you don't like it than stay away from it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I wish people would stop ignoring the lore then complaining that it doesnt make sense...
    Giant rabbits ("vermin"). Hozen that are randomly our enemies or allies, and I'm not sure which ones I want to kill more.

    Some of the best lore from questing is found with the Klaxxi, and they weren't even going to be a faction originally.

    There's plenty of good lore in MoP, but there is also a ton that seemed like they were trying to give the people who said "MoP is for kids" more ammunition to work with.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-28 at 06:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    More dungeons and raids need to be like Dragon Soul.

    lol k after taking that in, there's a reason why. Dragon Soul was a completely unique raid. Re-done environments, no real 'dungeon', and the final fight wasn't the usual deal of the final boss waiting for the heroes. Had DS been done properly, unique models, pre-established bosses, a better story prior to and after entering the raid, it would have been the best raid off all time.
    Cataclysm's final patch butchered huge swaths of the story, and Dragon Soul was the culmination of that mindset, forever destroying the story of what should have been one of the most menacing villains in the game. The final boss waited as long as you liked before the pull, and while there were some neat mechanics, was not worth of being a Deathwing fight. There were only 8 bosses. There were wildly inconsistent amounts of trash, and most of it was incredibly boring or annoying.

    Everything good that Dragon Soul did has been done elsewhere, and I cannot think of one thing that Dragon Soul did that was unique to Dragon Soul that I would ever want to see repeated. It stands as my least enjoyed raid ever, having raided every tier since tier 4.
    Last edited by darkwarrior42; 2013-04-28 at 06:54 PM.

  18. #18
    The SM and Scholo storylines are based around Lilian Voss, remember? Isn't the order supposed to be her killing Whitemane (giving you quests to assassinate the Scarlet leadership), then going to Scholo? Maybe it needs more low-level quest context. I haven't leveled in a while.

    I, for one, found the dungeons in Pandaria to be much better in terms of integration within the story/leveling experience than Cataclysm or Wrath starter dungeons other than Halls of Lightning with Loken, Drak'tharon Keep, and maybe Throne of the Tides. (I got tired of the story leading up to Halls of Origination)

    Cataclysm you get a few "Hey, this dungeon's over here. You should make sure there are no bad guys." Usually after you're already done. (Stonecore and Ozruk's quest, anybody?)
    Wrath you get, "Oh, the legendary king of the vrykul resurrected in a level 70 zone? You should kill him at level 80 when you get the time" "Keristrasza's been kidnapped! Good, you put her out of her misery, but you can come back to kill Eregos later. He's only a floor above us, but still."

    Mists? Most of the Pandarian dungeons have NPCs in them witnessing the havoc of a siege or insurrection. Their fight would go on if you weren't there, you just help.
    That being said, I do find that "atmosphere" in terms of difficulty vs. reward has been shifted away from dungeons as end game content, which is silly since three or four of the dungeons were only for end game anyway.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkwolfgang View Post
    Even further...
    One minute I'm clearing Orgrimmar basement of Cultists, other minute I'm dealing with Centaur Spirits and to finish it off I have to kill some female Elemental ugliness, but wait, BAM and I'm back in Scarlet Monastery. Seriously, wtf? It just doesn't make any sense.
    Only without the 'one minute, next minute' part because you're spending half an hour flying all over the damn place to get to the dungeons.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Only without the 'one minute, next minute' part because you're spending half an hour flying all over the damn place to get to the dungeons.
    yep exactly

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