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  1. #21
    So... You're complaining because you have to delay your CDs so you can get a new 5 stack? Every dps spec that has a 2 minute CD has to do the exact same thing 3 times every pull. Get over it.

  2. #22
    The only Encounter where was frustrated as Elemental was Primordius.

    But then again, if you are in a 10 man Raid with 3 Multi Dotter's, you don't really need additional multi dotters, it's just overkill to kill that many blobs.

    Outside of that, even on Council Heroic i was as Elemental pretty crucial for the Raid as our Strat in the 1st Week was tied to AG and burst on Kazra'jin.

    Maybe Lei Shen Hc was annoying as well, as you can't solo soak Static Shock as Shaman and your Dps suffered if someone messed up something with those ball lightnings.


    Overall, Elemental performed fine during this tier, some Encounter had important Moments to shine with CL and AG.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    So... You're complaining because you have to delay your CDs so you can get a new 5 stack? Every dps spec that has a 2 minute CD has to do the exact same thing 3 times every pull. Get over it.
    Are you even playing Elemental or at least raid heroics? Just asking.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 07:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericprydz View Post
    After going through and reading more of everyone's responses it seems as though it is more of a strat problem than anything else. Figure out a way to get through to your guildmates in the prep phase of building a good strat and then again while actually executing it during your pulls and all will be fine.

    Some of the examples I can tell you that are a strat problem are:
    Twins: ele is great at not losing single target dps from killing adds during p1 and the p2 transition which helps a lot on their overall damage
    Tortos: Kiting bats is a strat problem and some classes always gets screwed from things like that
    Primordius: Blowing CDs at the start and not having a good strat so people can get 3 transforms in EACH is a strat issue and nothing else. Check out this log from our second kill http://worldoflogs.com/reports/kmfkc...=12067&e=12447
    Council: here again is another bad strat example that most guilds use. Try cleaving adds down and putting the priest away from others. You only need to dps the priest during empower when you can also bring the priest in with the rest of them and aoe hard. Another log from our second kill http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1u...?s=6109&e=6539
    So true... sadly. :/ Thanks for the logs.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  4. #24
    I was not swapped since we didnt really have any DPS problems, but i would defently understand if i had been. Elemental damage on primo is horrible.

  5. #25
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    The 4 set is a fairly big deal on this fight, as it allows you to be guarenteed to get an ascendance in every mutation.

  6. #26
    Lots of people's issues come from not having their 4set. It is still early in the tier (especially for 10mans) and not everyone has their 4set yet. People have to remember that a lot of these encounters are balanced with those sets in mind.

  7. #27
    Step 1: Assign DPS to 2 lanes each.
    Step 2: Have DPS each soak 4 adds.
    Step 3: At the same time, have the DPS soak the 5th add.
    Step 4: Bloodlust and start moving the boss around the room fast (in a circular motion) so that a long trail of small adds shapes up behind the boss.
    Step 5: ELEMENTAL SHAMAN
    Step 6: Acquire blobs for healers.
    Step 7: Dispel DPSers one by one and have them soak 5 puddles from the 10,000+ that will be on the ground due to step 5.
    Step 8: Repeat step 7 until boss dies.

    In all seriousness, having an elemental shaman makes Primordius a breeze. Ours does 260-300k DPS on the fight.
    Unfortunately I can't link anything yet, so for logs check for the highest elemental shaman DPS. Name is: Amarok (300k) on Al'Akir in Impulsive.
    Elemental shamans are truly amazing on that fight. It's only because of ours that we hold the fastest Primordius 10H kill in the west (2nd world).

    For the kill video (admire chain lightning spam) search YouTube for: Impulsive vs Primordius 10 Heroic.
    Last edited by Thaelarion; 2013-05-02 at 09:47 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaelarion View Post
    Step 1: Assign DPS to 2 lanes each.
    Step 2: Have DPS each soak 4 adds.
    Step 3: At the same time, have the DPS soak the 5th add.
    Step 4: Bloodlust and start moving the boss around the room fast (in a circular motion) so that a long trail of small adds shapes up behind the boss.
    Step 5: ELEMENTAL SHAMAN
    Step 6: Acquire blobs for healers.
    Step 7: Dispel DPSers one by one and have them soak 5 puddles from the 10,000+ that will be on the ground due to step 5.
    Step 8: Repeat step 7 until boss dies.

    In all seriousness, having an elemental shaman makes Primordius a breeze. Ours does 260-300k DPS on the fight.
    Unfortunately I can't link anything yet, so for logs check for the highest elemental shaman DPS. Name is Amarok (300k) on Al'Akir in Impulsive.

    For the kill video (admire chain lightning spam) search YouTube for Impulsive vs Primordius 10 Heroic.
    I can vouch for this, worked for us too. Our Ele beasted the adds (we have no warlock).

  9. #29
    I´ve been in on all my guilds first kills, we have 9/13 atm with animus and twins still up.
    On Primordius i´m on the big adds, Viscous Horrors, full time. I only go on the boss in the end when we burn him down and ignore the adds. We have a spriest and boomkin dotting up the add aswell, but otherwise i´m alone on them, usually cleaving off it on small adds to make sure we have enough pools for people. I don´t take 5 stacks so i get mutated, i usually hoover around 3-4 stacks to have enough dps to get them down in time, popping cooldowns on second adds when the tank swap happens.
    As has been mentioned here before, it all comes down to group assignements, what works best for your guild.
    Last edited by Filthe; 2013-05-02 at 10:13 PM.

  10. #30
    Wow, thanks :>
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Filthe View Post
    I´ve been in on all my guilds first kills, we have 9/13 atm with animus and twins still up.
    On Primordius i´m on the big adds, Viscous Horrors, full time. I only go on the boss in the end when we burn him down and ignore the adds. We have a spriest and boomkin dotting up the add aswell, but otherwise i´m alone on them, usually cleaving off it on small adds to make sure we have enough pools for people. I don´t take 5 stacks so i get mutated, i usually hoover around 3-4 stacks to have enough dps to get them down in time, popping cooldowns on second adds when the tank swap happens.
    As has been mentioned here before, it all comes down to group assignements, what works best for your guild.
    Omg it's him!

  12. #32
    Elemental is defnietly behind on DPS if you look at only single target dps, but really, how many fiights are pure single target?... excactly, none, except jin'rokh maybe, but that boss is a joke for all classes.

    anyway, my point is that if you find elemental weak on a fight, it is simply because you are not utilizing it properly, elemental has good potential on most fights, and are even in top 3 on a few.

    PS. i'm currently 11/13HC with a 1% Lei Shen try, and the only fight where i was benched was council and tortos, and that was only because i couldn't show up for the raids.

  13. #33
    Just like I said already, I appreciate all your input - but it doesnt help if you go around and tell people that they arent utilizing their class properly, without giving a glance on how you do it. Just offer some videos or logs next time, Rowl... or write down at least some tipps. We could really use an overall guide on how people handle fights, since our theorycrafters dont raid heroics.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Just like I said already, I appreciate all your input - but it doesnt help if you go around and tell people that they arent utilizing their class properly, without giving a glance on how you do it. Just offer some videos or logs next time, Rowl... or write down at least some tipps. We could really use an overall guide on how people handle fights, since our theorycrafters dont raid heroics.
    all right then, well first off logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/21...alendar/04-13/
    Videos (not from my pov, but if someone would be interested then here they are i guess: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeTm76mj_eNNCa8gJzGmrPQ

    So, a few tips on how i see the fights and how i see elemental being utilized on the fights (this is all my opinions and it's all form 10 man pov):

    Jin'rokh: there's not too much special stuff to do toher than use your CD's in the pools, including elementals, it's pretty straightforward fight.

    Horridon: Chain lightning is obvs. super strong here, ranged interrupt is godlike, especially because you can use it to knock back the direhorn without having to waste a GCD, grounding totem for the flame casters on the 4th gate if you have the aggro of them, decursing people on the 4th gate.

    Council of elders: As i said i was benched for this fight, but thunderstorm is a really strong spell for this because of twisted fate, also if the loa gets a bit too close, ancestral guidance is super healing CD for the intense phases, especially if stacked with ascendance, placing down healing reign for kaz'rajin when people are stacked, healing stream totem for the healing and 10% dmg reduction, ranged interrupt for sul/marli, generally strong cleave, especially if you have the 4 set.

    Tortos: Well unless you're on bats you're gonna have a bad time really, atleast i had, but if you are on bats tho, your dps will pretty much skyrocket.

    Megeara: Ancestral guidance is again uber duper strong, glyphed healing stream, shamanistic rage is up for al rampages drastically reducing the dmg you take on that fight, add management. what we'd do was our warrior would aggro the adds, and stun the first wave, on the 2nd rotations of heads i'd wait for the 2nd span location and move my capacitatior there while the warrior stacked all the adds there, then just CL rape them, worked very well.

    Ji'kun: Other than CL being insane for the platforms, and our Cd's aligning very well with the buffs, there's not much to say imo.

    Durumu: ice walls? yes, we are obvs. insane for the icewalls, but what was even strong was that for the 2nd and 3rd beam phase, i'd try to make sure there was a wall up still, then when the raid got into a bit of trouble i'd pop AG and just spam CL, doing insane amounts of healing, i'd basically keep the raid alive alone for those 10 secs.

    Primordius: it's quite a tricky fight, but CL is very strong for getting down a few extra pools, multidotting the big add with FS for the extra lavasurge procs works very well, again AG for when shit hits the fan, not too much to say, shamsn can work, but yeah, we are deffo not the strongest on this fight.

    Dark Animus: Ancestral guidance + all CD's in the start to stabilise the healing was priceless if you ask me, also glyphed HST for the jolts, shamanistic rage priceless on this fight for both swap and jolts, and in the start there's alot of potential for 3-4x FS application making the proc streaks on LvB so insane and can keep you on par with other classes boss dmg.

    Iron Qon: not much to say, free loot tbh. freedom totem when the 3rd dog uses the spear for the people who gets a stack or two, else not really much other than clever use of AG, maybe some healing rains towards the end if your healers are struggling.

    Twins: FS eerything that moes in p3, no point aoe'ing the little adds with CL, they will die from other stuff and can be used for multidotting for procs, all that really matters here are boss, dmg, again 2x PE earth elemental for the defensive CD + shamanistic rage makes for good survivability, AG again since the dmg usually comes in bursts on this fight, multidotting FS in the last phase maybe? not sure really, elemental is not amazing for this fight, but we are just as good as anyone else really.

    Lei shen: Surprisingly enough i'd rank Elemental as one of the best dps classes for this fight, and that's simply because of AG, AG is so insane for when the balls of lightning spawns, the healing you do is mental, espcially for the last phase, there is the con that we can't solo soak tho, but there are ways to work around that, such as im always on a platform with 3 people in the first transition, and in the 2nd one im on one with 6 people, on this platform we always get the diffusion add tho because on the other 2 platforms are only people who counts as melee and therefore can't spawn diffusion adds, (MW monk, tank monk, prot pala and rogue). Glyphed HST is pretty sick for the last phase where pretty much everything is affected by the glyphed HST.

    now this i just my pov and opinion on the fights. so interpret it as you will -

  15. #35
    Awesome, thanks! <3
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowl View Post
    Lei shen: Surprisingly enough i'd rank Elemental as one of the best dps classes for this fight, and that's simply because of AG, AG is so insane for when the balls of lightning spawns, the healing you do is mental, espcially for the last phase, there is the con that we can't solo soak tho, but there are ways to work around that, such as im always on a platform with 3 people in the first transition, and in the 2nd one im on one with 6 people, on this platform we always get the diffusion add tho because on the other 2 platforms are only people who counts as melee and therefore can't spawn diffusion adds, (MW monk, tank monk, prot pala and rogue). Glyphed HST is pretty sick for the last phase where pretty much everything is affected by the glyphed HST.
    Ball Lightning Dps varies, as the Number of Ball lightnings is random and you need to constantly switch target to get maximum cl jumps.

    Also, your Ball Lightning Dps in P3 isn't that good, it's difficult to remain together during Violent Gale winds, unable to cast Cl during movement and you have to move away because of thunderstruck.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Ball Lightning Dps varies, as the Number of Ball lightnings is random and you need to constantly switch target to get maximum cl jumps.

    Also, your Ball Lightning Dps in P3 isn't that good, it's difficult to remain together during Violent Gale winds, unable to cast Cl during movement and you have to move away because of thunderstruck.
    the number of balls of lightning is not random at all actually, you can control how many balls you want to spawn down to a minimum of 3 on 10 man.

    also, you assume there's only 1 tactic for p3 Lei shen or what? in the tactic we use, when the balls of lightning spawn we have some time to stand around the boss and kill them off, after that the tank moves the boss away, the ranged stays to bait the thunderstruck, then we run back to the boss, then the balls spawn again, we kill, tank moves the boss, we bait, and so you, you get the picture.

    one thing i will agree with you on tho is that dps on balls in p3 can vary, but unless you have worst rng ever, there's always 1 or 2 in range of CL.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowl View Post
    also, you assume there's only 1 tactic for p3 Lei shen or what? in the tactic we use, when the balls of lightning spawn we have some time to stand around the boss and kill them off, after that the tank moves the boss away, the ranged stays to bait the thunderstruck, then we run back to the boss, then the balls spawn again, we kill, tank moves the boss, we bait, and so you, you get the picture.
    Yeah, but that only works if the Ball Lightning timer and Gale Wind have enough time between to AoE them, usually during the third wave you will have Gale Winds shortly after Ball Lightnings, where it will become difficult to stack up because of Gale Winds.

    Not even taking into account which kind of abilities you carried over from the previous phases.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  19. #39
    I got benched in 25h for 3 weeks, I feel your pain.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrysteel View Post
    I completely disagree with anyone saying elemental is in a good spot right now. This has been one of the most frustrating tiers to date as an elemental shaman. We are good on a few fights, but we are near useless on several fights (and by useless i mean there are much much better options to bring in), and the fights in between the good and useless we are meh.

    Heroic Primordius, Heroic Twins, Heroic Tortos (if you kite bats), Heroic Council (if you are stuck on ranged add and not able to cleave majority of fight), etc etc are all examples of extremely poor fights for Ele (some depending on strat).

    We have a few good fights, such as Heroic Durumu, but its not enough to warrant bringing in an Ele for each progression fight. I have never seen a Boomkin, Lock, Mage, Shadow Priest get sat because their class underperforms on certain fights. They each do well on their "bad" fights, but on multi target fights they simply shine and this tier has soooo many multi dot fights its ridiculous.

    Imo Ele should be one of the highest single target casters, because we simply can not compete when it comes to all these dual dot fights. I would be ok with dual dotters winning meters every fight, if i could atleast bring excellent single target to make up for our extremely underwhelming multi target damage.

    Instead, elemental has the lowest single target damage of any caster. Its just mind boggling.
    Atm theres a bug on SS allowing warlocks to keep dots w/ MAX stats up the entire time indefinitely on multiple target fights. It's not other classes being 500k+ moonkin is @ roughly 290k on tortos 10 H and so do shamans spriests etc except locks who have a bug allowing for insanity. I'd also mention as elemental larger groups are something were hard to contest, CL procs mastery off its procs and turns into old school forked(force) lightning, factor larger groups and throwing your totem anytime ur stable its not really all that horrible.

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