MoP ruined Affliction

[Gohzerlock]

if you have mastery stacked you are doing it wrong. Pretty sure for t15 the people that know what they are talking about have either

haste>crit>mastery or haste=crit>mastery (i think balance between haste and crit is more viable over pure haste)
some also suggest crit>haste>mastery (more viable for burst less for sustained)

with improved pets. All I'm sorry but why would you think that the tier that is centered around ember generation and having them be more efficient during DS would not have stats that benefit that (aka haste and crit) and stick to old t14 mastery+sac build?

MoP didn't ruin affliction...i changed the play style of it...just like it did for demo and destro. Personally I play Demo and Destro partially because Demo is by far the superior spec imo (as well i find it most fun) and destro for burst. Yes affliction is the weakest of the three specs but it doesn't mean a good affliction lock would not be ahead over other two if they are average. On paper vx reality are different things. Play the spec you like and are good at and you will see numbers.

He said exclusively for sac spec he stacked mastery... yes for supremacy haste=crit>mastery for single target, keep in mind we're usually swimming in embers in tot and it shifts the theoretical value of mastery, even for supremacy.

[Deleted]

from a purely pve perspective, i have to say that MoP perfected affliction in so many ways atleast in my opinion. in the past it just didnt make sense to me that affliction which is centered around doing periodic dmg and is now purely periodic dmg, was using a spell from destro(at the time) and it was a direct dmg spell, it just didnt make any sense. it made more sense to me that they would use a channeling spells which was why a lot of ppl liked using drain life, and it fit perfectly with how ive always perceived afflcition, but for some reason they wanted us to use a dd spell. atleast now affliction is much streamlined and a lot less clunky which is a nice change and it is one of my favorite specs, altho locks are lucky that way as they have 3 excellent specs.

[Last Starfighter]

From a PvE standpoint, MoP is the first time since... BC... that I've enjoyed playing affliction.

Granted, this thread is obviously about PvP. I love how the second post completely ruined your "interruptable!" argument. I also like how you bitched and bitched about balance adjustments. In fact, I love seeing PvP bitching threads in general because you can almost always be assured that the OP is going to complain about stuff that is either completely irrelevant or indicative of the OP's inability to PvP in the first place. Either way, it's usually a good laugh.

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 09:40 PM ----------

A channeled filler that causes our DoTs to tick. Just because a spell is channeled does not mean it is anything like Spriests.

Furthermore, I don't remember them saying that at all. I do remember them not wanting us to use Drain Life, but I don't recall them comparing us to Shadow Priests. The more obvious reason is because it's constant, free healing with no damage penalty.

Either way, MG is nothing like that. MG fills a new niche that I've never seen in WoW before.

Our channeled filler does not cause our dots to tick. They do that themselves. It increases the damage they do. And in cata when ppl were using DL as their filler, Blizz compared it to shadow priests all the time.

[Szarala]

Our channeled filler does not cause our dots to tick. They do that themselves. It increases the damage they do. And in cata when ppl were using DL as their filler, Blizz compared it to shadow priests all the time.

I'm pretty sure MG causes extra ticks, not increases the damage of existing ticks

[ComputerNerd]

From a PvE standpoint, MoP is the first time since... BC... that I've enjoyed playing affliction.

Granted, this thread is obviously about PvP. I love how the second post completely ruined your "interruptable!" argument. I also like how you bitched and bitched about balance adjustments. In fact, I love seeing PvP bitching threads in general because you can almost always be assured that the OP is going to complain about stuff that is either completely irrelevant or indicative of the OP's inability to PvP in the first place. Either way, it's usually a good laugh.

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 09:40 PM ----------

A channeled filler that causes our DoTs to tick. Just because a spell is channeled does not mean it is anything like Spriests.

Furthermore, I don't remember them saying that at all. I do remember them not wanting us to use Drain Life, but I don't recall them comparing us to Shadow Priests. The more obvious reason is because it's constant, free healing with no damage penalty.

Either way, MG is nothing like that. MG fills a new niche that I've never seen in WoW before.

The argument was nothing to do with the mechanics of the filler, but the style of it being channelled.
It was all about playstyle, and that is exactly what a channelled filler does, replicate the very thing they said they wanted to avoid by being exactly the same thing.

[xskarma]

The argument was nothing to do with the mechanics of the filler, but the style of it being channelled.
It was all about playstyle, and that is exactly what a channelled filler does, replicate the very thing they said they wanted to avoid by being exactly the same thing.

My guess is they just didn't like us using that particular channel at the time, and gave us the best possible story to explain why they felt it was a bad idea. They gave us the best sounding story at the time, instead of just saying "Drain Life will give you too much self healing, and it allows you to use talents we didn't design you for and we want this balancing problem to go away".

When they got around to the Mists revamp though I fully understand why they chose to build upon Affliction's image of dots and drains. A channel is so much more in line with the idea of Drains then a casted Shadowbolt ever was. And if you ask them about it now I'll bet you anything that at most you'll get a line on how ideas change, and that new expansions are much better suited to put in large mechanics overhauls.

[Nicola]

The main problem with MG I have is that it doesn't feel like a filler, but as our main damage spell. The whole idea of just having dots and channels is fine however there is too much focus on that one channel.
As a destruction warlock you use incinerate to build embers so you can trow in the big damage with chaos bolt, as a demonology warlock you trow in shadow bolts and soul fires so you can turn into a big demon to trow in the big damage. As affliction you channel MG to do what?
And while in previous expansions afflictions filler has been rather useless as well, it was necessary to keep debuffs as improved shadow bolt and shadow embrace up and unlike now, they didn't do the majority of the damage.

Overall, the spec works for PvE, but they could have done it a lot better by putting the focus more into dots, perhaps just by adding another dot that works like devouring plague, and not into that one abomination of a channel.

[evertonbelmontt]

[...] As affliction you channel MG to do what?
And while in previous expansions afflictions filler has been rather useless as well, it was necessary to keep debuffs as improved shadow bolt and shadow embrace up and unlike now, they didn't do the majority of the damage.

Overall, the spec works for PvE, but they could have done it a lot better by putting the focus more into dots, perhaps just by adding another dot that works like devouring plague, and not into that one abomination of a channel.

I don't see it this way. I play mostly affliction and if i would to answer your question, the answer would be:
"To get procs."

As afflic, you multidot the most you can, you get the most use of dark soul and malefic to get procs and multidot everything way better. For me, MG is just a way to get shards/procs way faster and do more pressure.
It works very well for pve, since we have a lot of encounters with adds this tier. I understand that MG seems to be our source of damage, and it is, but not by itself.
It's synergy extremelly well with procs and your strenght with dots currently on target, that's the beauty of it.

IMHO, afflic has never felt so... enjoyable to play before.

EDIT: looking at logs, it does seem like a filer, our primary source of damage is agony > UA > Corruption > MG, except single target fights this tier, right?
I still think that affliction is our multidot spec, and it feels better than ever for me.

[Nicola]

EDIT: looking at logs, it does seem like a filer, our primary source of damage is agony > UA > Corruption > MG, except single target fights this tier, right?
I still think that affliction is our multidot spec, and it feels better than ever for me.

You'll end up with something like MG agony > MG UA > agony > MG corruption > UA > MG > corruption. While it looks like all the damage is coming from dots, the deal is that you need to channel MG to get those ticks. There wouldn't be a real difference between MG hitting like a truck if dots were up and what we have now.

By looking at some logs, it seems that MG and the extra dot ticks make up for ~55% of your dps on single target, which is just a lot for something that is supposed to be a filler spell, and that's exactly where the problem sits for PvP damage now. There is simply way to much damage coming from 1 spell.

[Deleted]

I always thought the issue with Drain Life as filler was not the SPriest style, but the fact that you were THAT much more resilient in every raid encounter thanks to it (Still remember PUG Raid leads going "Don't heal people to full!" "But we don't do that" "Well what's with the warlock then?" on chim)

[Szarala]

I always thought the issue with Drain Life as filler was not the SPriest style, but the fact that you were THAT much more resilient in every raid encounter thanks to it (Still remember PUG Raid leads going "Don't heal people to full!" "But we don't do that" "Well what's with the warlock then?" on chim)

Well how is that different now? GoSac Affs are currently sitting in raids with more hp than the tank and an un-dented soul leech shield.

[Deleted]

Well how is that different now? GoSac Affs are currently sitting in raids with more hp than the tank and an un-dented soul leech shield.

citation needed

[evertonbelmontt]

citation needed

Agreed. As an afflic, soul leech is not OP in any way.

And we NEED this tankness, or else we would be screwd with so low mobility.
I was watching lei shen heroic as a mage POV, he could manage to escape every single strike that would hit everyone near for a large amount of damage on thunderstorm. At the end he was almost full while the waid was at 50%, while seemed that he lost no dps at all. I don't remember where, but i can find it again on youtube (less than a week that i saw it).

As they said, different classes are different.

[Szarala]

I'm not saying it's OP or unnecessary, my point is how is the current state of Aff different from when drain life was the filler if the issue was tankiness?

[evertonbelmontt]

I'm not saying it's OP or unnecessary, my point is how is the current state of Aff different from when drain life was the filler if the issue was tankiness?

They must have said this pointing on pvp only.
Because at pve, we had 30% passive mitigation (soul link, demon armor), right? Drain life wasn't the issue there.. and looking at how things turned to be now on the pve side (soul leech got buffed to be more usefull) and our 2 defensive CD's to choose, i'd said that they told us the first thing that came to mind just to get rid of DL (because of his impact on pvp, a self constant healing with no downside).

While on pve, you'd lose dps. Doesn't make sense if their word was true, would it? "Oh noes, DL is SOOO OP in mists, you guys can't have it on pve. Even tough you will lose a lot of dps."

TL;DR
It's totally different on the pvp side, but looking at pve, it wasn't the reason.

[Szarala]

They must have said this pointing on pvp only.
a self constant healing with no downside

I wouldn't say -no- downside.. the downside to Drain Life in pvp was that it rooted an otherwise mobile spec in place while giving it a neon green PLEASE LOCK ME OUT sign.

Fast forward to today, KJC has helped mobility, but now drain life is all but useless and we still have to put up with a bright neon sign anyway.

[ati87]

citation needed

Well Monks don't really have a large HP pool......

[evertonbelmontt]

I wouldn't say -no- downside.. the downside to Drain Life in pvp was that it rooted an otherwise mobile spec in place while giving it a neon green PLEASE LOCK ME OUT sign.

Fast forward to today, KJC has helped mobility, but now drain life is all but useless and we still have to put up with a bright neon sign anyway.

Too much CC nowdays, even blizzard wasn't aware of that.
Before it wasn't too much of a problem because it could proc SB and healed a lot more.

It's true that afflic doesn't work very well for pvp, but for me, pvp is broken this entire xpac.

[Deleted]

MG should work like damage trinkets did back in Vanilla.

Back then you could apply full dots, activate trinket and then see your dot damage spike way up. This is how MG should work now. Being fully dotted should be something to fear because you know Malefic Grasp is coming to eat you alive.

[Deleted]

I could not disagree more... in cata... chaos bolt, our signature spell, was OPTIONAL. It was considered neutral dps to use. I honestly felt like a fire mage. Now, chaos bolt is top 2 damage on all fights and we feel unique. Yes, the rotation is simple, but the skill of it relies on watching 3 things at once (embers, procs, mechanics).

Indeed - furthermore, Chaos Bolt is really difficult to use in PvP. Compare to Wotlk Destro... MoP Destro is nowhere near as good. But Destro is amazing in PvE. Very fun and fluid spec to play, except for MAYBE F&B, which is getting the fix it needs next patch.