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  1. #41
    Pit Lord Adoxe's Avatar
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    I use openraid only for old raid achievements just because of stuff like this. I tried to do HoF with Openraid once and had a similar experience and I will never ever bother with that again. Overall the openraid concept is fine but it's the people that ruin the experience making it shit. At least it's still useful for old meta achivs.
    Formerly known as NonameXADX

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  2. #42
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    Recently started using openraid, and I can for sure say I got different views on this...

    Was in a HOF pug last night, 7 people died on attenuation the first time. I didnt care and went and tried again. Five of the same people died again, and I told them carefully on VT: "If you let 1 wave pass, then find an opening and just strafe it is pretty easy to avoid"

    Then out of nowhere an angry female voice attacked me, saying "JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE 16/16 HEROIC DOESNT MEAN YOU CAN TALK DOWN TO US"

    Like what the fuck? I didnt even talk down to them, just gave a tip how to survive... They were a guildrun appearantly still 4/6 HC MSV and I was on my alt mage just bored after a night of lei shen hc progress.

    Are people really that hostile? I was kicked from the group and their guild posted lots of angry stuff on my feedback page.

    The 1 other time I used openraid I joined a terrace pug with complete randoms and 1 shotted everything fast and easy. But I had to make a new profile because of those dumbasses in HoF.
    The game has come to this. I'm sure the woman (and her guild) took it the wrong way. I haven't heard your voice, but it could have been the tone of it, not to say you have an upsetting sound coming from your vocals (or that you actually sounded mad). That being said, people can wipe and wipe after only a few attempts, becoming miserable in a snap. So, my friend, people are more than hostile nowadays.

    My thoughts on Openraid? I like it. I think it's healthy raiding to some degree, and you don't find a lot of terrible pickup groups either.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Last tier was overtuned because of the mechanics (see OP on attenuation) knocking 10% of the damage done and boss hp doesn't make the super mario dance off fever 152 mechanics per boss bollocks that wows current raids have become any easier, it just means your less than amazingly co ordinated pugger lasts a few seconds longer after they inevitably fuck up before dying.
    So, an easily avoidable mechanic that takes at least 3 hits to kill a full-health player is "overtuned?"

    Last I checked, fights required learning how to deal with stuff like Attenuation. If you can't learn, you shouldn't be playing a game that requires learning and adapting.

    I mean, seriously, Attenuation is a simple mechanic. You either run along the inside track, which is always clear, or you find holes and move to them. Neither of those are difficult. It's not overtuned.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    So, an easily avoidable mechanic that takes at least 3 hits to kill a full-health player is "overtuned?"

    Last I checked, fights required learning how to deal with stuff like Attenuation. If you can't learn, you shouldn't be playing a game that requires learning and adapting.

    I mean, seriously, Attenuation is a simple mechanic. You either run along the inside track, which is always clear, or you find holes and move to them. Neither of those are difficult. It's not overtuned.
    But how will I tunnel vision on the boss if I have to dodge rings?

  5. #45
    For my part, I loved Openraid during the last expansion. It got me the heroics that I was unable to get with my guilds at the time (some of tier 11) and the achievements I needed for Glory, plus plenty of Heroic Rag kills for when I wasn't invited to my guild's Mount Selling groups.

    During this expansion, however, Openraid is pretty crappy. I was able to get a few Heroic Will kills, but that's been about it. Last Openraid group I joined had people trying to move Pheramones to the first boss room in an attempt to remove it and its damage from the fight. This failed and we wiped to increasing Pheramone ticking damage. It became pretty clear that this group wasn't going to kill heroic Garalon and I bowed out.

    Then, of course, I joined a pug on my server and got a group ("we've all killed it on heroic") without enough viable soakers for heroic Will and was, once again, saved to a run without killing anything.

    At this point, the only Openraid groups worth a damn are those on the event page, since they typically require players that have proven themselves in one way or another. I don't think I'm going to be joining too many chat groups on there, anymore.

    I can only imagine that the main reason for such a lower-quality of player on Openraid is that ToT is currently out and the gear from there is immensely better than even heroic gear from HoF and ToES. In other words, ToT raiders have no reason to revisit those old raids aside from achievements, and they have to mix in with the crappy players that don't bother learning anything about the fights before joining the raid.

  6. #46
    I used it to get part of the legendary quest chain done, A change of command, everyone was cool and nice, for having 40 people in a raid group I was expecting the worst. We even knocked over a few direhorn rares while we waited to fill and got a few people mounts. Was a great experience.

  7. #47
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    If you say anything in any form of help to some people, they take it as a personal insult and think you're calling them bad so react in a hostile manner. Nothing new.
    While this can often really be true, I think a lot of times, some people don't understand the methods of which they speak can be condescending, or they're not used to grouping with other groups of people they don't know, or something.

    i.e. saying "Why are you doing that? Stop." is bad. You should say "Doing X does X", or something. A lot of people just flat don't realize they're being rude, or are so used to speaking in that way, they think it's normal.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    Recently started using openraid, and I can for sure say I got different views on this...

    Was in a HOF pug last night, 7 people died on attenuation the first time. I didnt care and went and tried again. Five of the same people died again, and I told them carefully on VT: "If you let 1 wave pass, then find an opening and just strafe it is pretty easy to avoid"

    Then out of nowhere an angry female voice attacked me, saying "JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE 16/16 HEROIC DOESNT MEAN YOU CAN TALK DOWN TO US"

    Like what the fuck? I didnt even talk down to them, just gave a tip how to survive... They were a guildrun appearantly still 4/6 HC MSV and I was on my alt mage just bored after a night of lei shen hc progress.

    Are people really that hostile? I was kicked from the group and their guild posted lots of angry stuff on my feedback page.

    The 1 other time I used openraid I joined a terrace pug with complete randoms and 1 shotted everything fast and easy. But I had to make a new profile because of those dumbasses in HoF.
    I've had probably 1-2 in all my time but that was simply crappy GL. Most of experiences on Open Raid has been awesome. However, I've not used it since returning to the game.

    Its quite well known now inside the game. When it first went live some time early last year, it had a very small and tight community. People were often good and they didn't often bitch about ilevel. Sure there were strict requirements for Heroic Content but it was still pleasant.

    Currently there seems to be too many people that have come to know about it. Thus you have a larger group. In the same time they attracted the bads, trolls, jerks in WoW, etc.

    Its pretty much comparable to WoW, when it was new. The game was fun and so were people as long as it wasn't main stream. The moment WoW went main stream it took a turn for the worse.

    I can offer you one suggestion though. Simply stay away from people and raids led by anyone below friendly. This way you'll know who is a newbie and who has been on the site a long time.

  9. #49
    Love openraid here. I've met some great players and have learned alot about the game (both my character and others).

    * used it mainly for heroic firelands last expansion to get my priest the staff and this expansion for challenge modes*
    Last edited by jhelom; 2013-05-06 at 06:39 PM.


    “All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine.” - Socrates

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    For my part, I loved Openraid during the last expansion. It got me the heroics that I was unable to get with my guilds at the time (some of tier 11) and the achievements I needed for Glory, plus plenty of Heroic Rag kills for when I wasn't invited to my guild's Mount Selling groups.

    During this expansion, however, Openraid is pretty crappy. I was able to get a few Heroic Will kills, but that's been about it. Last Openraid group I joined had people trying to move Pheramones to the first boss room in an attempt to remove it and its damage from the fight. This failed and we wiped to increasing Pheramone ticking damage. It became pretty clear that this group wasn't going to kill heroic Garalon and I bowed out.

    Then, of course, I joined a pug on my server and got a group ("we've all killed it on heroic") without enough viable soakers for heroic Will and was, once again, saved to a run without killing anything.

    At this point, the only Openraid groups worth a damn are those on the event page, since they typically require players that have proven themselves in one way or another. I don't think I'm going to be joining too many chat groups on there, anymore.

    I can only imagine that the main reason for such a lower-quality of player on Openraid is that ToT is currently out and the gear from there is immensely better than even heroic gear from HoF and ToES. In other words, ToT raiders have no reason to revisit those old raids aside from achievements, and they have to mix in with the crappy players that don't bother learning anything about the fights before joining the raid.
    Its got nothing to do with that. Its simply Open Raid is know well know with in the WoW player base. At one point of time early last year, only a few knew about it. So you had mostly the skilled and purely raiders that signed up do work on their Achievements and the rest. Open Raid went main stream this expansion and it brought in a completely different set of players.

    Now you have more trolls and XP hunters coming for a smooth ride and a carry.

  11. #51
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    Sadly; I'd rather risk my luck on Mal'ganis trade chat and never talk on vent than deal with this anymore.
    It might be good for super old casual stuff but when it comes to heroics from last tier...
    Hey man I've gotten into some pretty great pugs on Mal'Ganis. I think I'd take a trade pug from our server over an openraid one anyday

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Good thing then that less than 1% of players actually play this game genuinely competitively.

    Seriously, this is openraid we're talking about. Not some world top 20 guild. If you are going to bring a rubbish attitude
    There is no excuse for not being able to dodge rings that come come out and move in a clockwise pattern. You don't even have to run clockwise, you can wait until the gap is big enough that you can walk between them.

    I would rather bring a player who has a log rammed up their ass and can dodge circles on that fight than someone who has to wipe 10 times while getting a detailed explanation of how to do it until they get it. Dying to Attenuation is like standing in a Shockwave that has a 4 second cast.

    Now, I don't know anything about mudor's raid that they signed up for. But if you are okay with nearly a quarter of your group wiping to the same idiot check mechanic and first boss over and over again, you are supposed to mark your raid as "casual", because win or lose, you don't really care.

    Casual = we're doing stuff, we dont really care if we finish the instance
    Softcore = We're going as far as we can. We are chill, want to clear the instance, but it is okay if we do not. But we probably do have some sort of goal.
    Hardcore = We are clearing this instance/getting this achievement and we only want qualified players.
    Extreme = <add hardcore description> Treat this raid like you would treat any serious raid group. Bring your provisions or get out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    No one (should) want to play with anyone who describes anyone for any reason other than outright douchebaggery a "scrub".
    vodka and Shining Force sure as hell didn't mind. The people I'm playing with right now don't mind.

    But you go ahead, you make your baseless assumptions. Think that you know me, and that I scream Satan at all the terrible people who play this game for my own personal amusement. You cannot cover up terrible play with a great personality.

    I mean, honestly, I am not asking you to train a dog to jump through some flaming hoops. What I am asking you to do has about the same cognitive requirement as wiping your ass and making sure that the toilet paper is actually rubbing up against your anus and not your back.
    they say that doors open up soon as you find the missing key
    that’s probably why I’m in this bitch shining
    jump up in the sky and put the stars into alignment
    I rep the ATF in case you need to be reminded
    and the bandwagon's full but you can try an' run behind it

  12. #52
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    Recently started using openraid, and I can for sure say I got different views on this...

    Was in a HOF pug last night, 7 people died on attenuation the first time. I didnt care and went and tried again. Five of the same people died again, and I told them carefully on VT: "If you let 1 wave pass, then find an opening and just strafe it is pretty easy to avoid"

    Then out of nowhere an angry female voice attacked me, saying "JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE 16/16 HEROIC DOESNT MEAN YOU CAN TALK DOWN TO US"

    Like what the fuck? I didnt even talk down to them, just gave a tip how to survive... They were a guildrun appearantly still 4/6 HC MSV and I was on my alt mage just bored after a night of lei shen hc progress.

    Are people really that hostile? I was kicked from the group and their guild posted lots of angry stuff on my feedback page.

    The 1 other time I used openraid I joined a terrace pug with complete randoms and 1 shotted everything fast and easy. But I had to make a new profile because of those dumbasses in HoF.
    That's a crying shame. I remember when it JUST came out and I had NOTHING but successful OR groups.

    First night using it: Downed Sinestra (early Dragon Soul; yes we outgeared it, but Sinestra is still a huge PITA)
    Also got Heroic Ragnaros, full Heroic T13, and Glory of Raider for T13. All still during early DS.

    If that's really what it's turned into, I'm sad about that, but I can always make my own group and only invite people who joined EARLY OR, or have a high reputation on the site. Anyone below Neutral I wouldn't bother inviting to a group.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 03:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    well maybe they should grow some balls and learn how to take some constructive criticism. no one who plays this game competitively wants to play with scrubs who die to attenuation.
    Competitively? People who just want to SUCCEED would be a better term, and it would include a lot more players.

    Sadly, over 90% of the playerbase is retarded and don't understand basic concepts like "fire is bad". Once they FINALLY learn that, then you need to tell them "Lei Shen swirls are good!", in which case, it'll turn out to another 5 tiers of "fire is bad".

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 03:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Casual = we're doing stuff, we dont really care if we finish the instance
    Softcore = We're going as far as we can. We are chill, want to clear the instance, but it is okay if we do not. But we probably do have some sort of goal.
    Hardcore = We are clearing this instance/getting this achievement and we only want qualified players.
    Extreme = <add hardcore description> Treat this raid like you would treat any serious raid group. Bring your provisions or get out.
    I've got a better list (to me at least c: ):

    Casual - We're bad and we don't give a fuck. We're more interested in talking on Vent/Mumble/Teamspeak/Skype than getting out of the fire
    Softcore - We're not that bad, but we probably won't finish the instance. We like to have fun with our group, but we also want to do as much as we can
    Hardcore - There is a 90% chance that we will get what we're going for. This is for serious people and any tomfoolery will not be tolerated
    Extreme - IF YOU SIMPLY TOUCH FIRE EVEN FOR A FRACTION OF A SECOND, YOU WILL BE INSTA-KICKED AND DOWNVOTED. THIS IS ONLY FOR THE MOST ELITE MOTHERFUCKERS AND ANY WEAKNESSES WILL BE INSTANTLY NOTICED. WE ARE GETTING THIS FUCKING ACHIEVEMENT NO MATTER HOW MANY SCRUB BADS WE HAVE TO KICK. IF WE'RE DOING PvP, A SINGLE DEATH, EVEN WITH 100 HKs/KBs WILL AUTO KICK YOU.

    At least, that's how I see it.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-05-06 at 07:29 PM.

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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebonheart View Post
    Its got nothing to do with that. Its simply Open Raid is know well know with in the WoW player base. At one point of time early last year, only a few knew about it. So you had mostly the skilled and purely raiders that signed up do work on their Achievements and the rest. Open Raid went main stream this expansion and it brought in a completely different set of players.

    Now you have more trolls and XP hunters coming for a smooth ride and a carry.
    I don't believe your answer is correct, though. Openraid chat rooms are scrolling by just as fast as they were back in Cata. The only difference I can perceive is less of the people using Openraid are heroic-quality raiders and more are generic pugs.

    In other words, Openraid lost good players, gained bad players. Either way, the chat screen still scrolls by just as slow/fast as it did before. That tells me that no more people are using it than before.

    Also, you neglect to factor in the fact that, during MoP, Openraid was completely worthless for raiders until 5.2 hit. That cut out a lot of the people that were using it back in Cata. So, no, you cannot just blindly assume that Openraid has grown and gained more players and that's the reason for all of this. There are many factors and ToT's item level is definitely one of them.

  14. #54
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NonameXADX View Post
    I use openraid only for old raid achievements just because of stuff like this. I tried to do HoF with Openraid once and had a similar experience and I will never ever bother with that again. Overall the openraid concept is fine but it's the people that ruin the experience making it shit. At least it's still useful for old meta achivs.
    Sadly you guys (everyone with only poor experiences of it) didn't find out about it until all the scrubs did. Trust me when I say: When it first came out, ONLY good players were running for the most part.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
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  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    So, an easily avoidable mechanic that takes at least 3 hits to kill a full-health player is "overtuned?"
    Can you pug it with people who are brand new to it and it not take all day? No? Then it's overtuned.
    Last I checked, fights required learning how to deal with stuff like Attenuation. If you can't learn, you shouldn't be playing a game that requires learning and adapting.
    Grats! you just dismissed several million people from playing wow. Their subs wil be missed, I am certain.
    I mean, seriously, Attenuation is a simple mechanic. You either run along the inside track, which is always clear, or you find holes and move to them. Neither of those are difficult. It's not overtuned.
    And yet, and yet people still wipe on it even now. Too many mechanics is always going to be a wipefest for loads of people because they don't have the memory/headspace to keep track of all the stuff they are supposed to do.

    Its easy if you can cope with several different things to keep track of, and impossible if you can't. This gap cannot be bridged by effort either, because it's a hard limit in many peoples innate ability to concentrate.

    The old style of wow as an RPG on all levels was "simple to perform two or three mechanic stuff, if you get beat go farm DPS/resist/tank/etc gear and come back with more numbers" the new style is an ever increasing blitzkrieg of shit to remember that gearing or HP nerfs to bosses makes feck all difference to. For most players, it's not working.

    Edit - and to keep it in line with the OP, openraid will get worse as more people join it because wow just isn't designed wuith the average person in mind and the more average people who join up the worse the experience will become.
    Last edited by Injin; 2013-05-06 at 07:34 PM.
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  16. #56
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    In other words, Openraid lost good players, gained bad players.
    Because we (good players) already got all the shit we were going for

    Well, I did at least. I haven't used OR in forever now.




    (Not trying to be arrogant by calling myself "good", but I wouldn't say I'm bad by any means...)

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    While this can often really be true, I think a lot of times, some people don't understand the methods of which they speak can be condescending, or they're not used to grouping with other groups of people they don't know, or something.
    It really isn't always just the speaker. People can be ridiculously sensitive about some things. It is good to keep that in mind when wanting to just get something over with without risking any issues, but it is also quite unrealistic to expect people to keep their language completely formal. That is just not how the world works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    A lot of people just flat don't realize they're being rude, or are so used to speaking in that way, they think it's normal.
    I am also noticing cultural differences between nationalities when playing on the EU realms. A phrase which might be more than fine in one culture can come across as rude to a person from another.

    That said, I don't think that there is anything abnormal about people using a stricter/rougher form of language. If someone takes offense to something that was not intended as such, more often than not it is also them creating the issue. Part of the arsenal of social skills is to also understand and acknowledge that people communicate in different ways.

  18. #58
    Field Marshal creepfest's Avatar
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    openraid pre-mop was great, small community with talented players.

    seems the exposure has brought a wide array of less than desirable groups.

    but keep looking i guess. good groups are out there. just gotta sign up like 3 weeks in advance..

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Can you pug it with people who are brand new to it and it not take all day? No? Then it's overtuned.
    Fact: When my guild first did the fight, we were all brand new and we didn't take all day. Said guild never killed a single Heroic during MoP, while we were still together. Said guild never killed Shek'zeer or anything in ToES. At least a few of my fellow raiders were bad.

    And we finished that fight on our first night in there.


    Grats! you just dismissed several million people from playing wow. Their subs wil be missed, I am certain.
    The only people I dismissed were people who are not capable/willing to learn fights. These are the same people who do not raid. And when I spoke of the "game," I was referring to the raiding game, which should've been obvious since we're in a thread about Openraid.


    And yet, and yet people still wipe on it even now. Too many mechanics is always going to be a wipefest for loads of people because they don't have the memory/headspace to keep track of all the stuff they are supposed to do.
    During attenuation, there is ONE thing to do. You don't have to think about anything else. Once you have learned attenuation, it's not really difficult anymore. The problem is that PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN TRYING TO LEARN IT!

    Its easy if you can cope with several different things to keep track of, and impossible if you can't. This gap cannot be bridged by effort either, because it's a hard limit in many peoples innate ability to concentrate.

    The old style of wow as an RPG on all levels was "simple to perform two or three mechanic stuff, if you get beat go farm DPS/resist/tank/etc gear and come back with more numbers" the new style is an ever increasing blitzkrieg of shit to remember that gearing or HP nerfs to bosses makes feck all difference to. For most players, it's not working.

    Edit - and to keep it in line with the OP, openraid will get worse as more people join it because wow just isn't designed wuith the average person in mind and the more average people who join up the worse the experience will become.
    You keep talking about having SooOoOooo many things to remember! ZOMG! Except... we're talking about Vizier, here. Phase 1: Stack up, run to your assigned bubble.
    Phase 2: Stack up, find the gap/strafe to avoid discs that you can see coming.
    Phase 3: Stack up, DPS the MC'd players.
    Phase 4: Now that you've practiced all of the above, you cycle through them!

    Now, considering how easy it is to stack up, that's ONE mechanic per phase. ONE! Three mechanics in the last phase.

    Let's compare that to the first bosses in a variety of other raids:
    Ulduar: Three separate vehicles, all with wildly different jobs.
    Trial of the Crusader: First boss is 3 bosses, all with multiple mechanics (adds that jump on and stun you, tank impale, big poison AOE, conal breath, knockback followed by a charge attack that one-shots you.
    ICC: Bone storm, fire, bone spikes.
    BoT: Different dragons every week, each providing varying mechanics and requiring slightly different approaches.
    BWD: 4 mobs with different attacks: Fire golem that roots players in place and uses a conal AOE on them, as well as a raid-wide AOE, poison golem that spawns adds that blow up when they reach players and also drops a cloud that increases damage taken, a lightning golem that puts an AOE damage zone on a random player and does something else I can't remember, and an arcane golem who requires interrupts and drops a damage increase zone. Oh, yeah, and they all have shields that do wildly different things when attacked.
    To4W: 3 separate mobs that all have completely different ways of being handled. I'm not going to bother explaining it.
    Firelands: Special tank kiting required, one dog has to be hit hard enough to break an effect he uses, enrage effect when dogs die.
    Dragon Soul: Orb that requires proximity stacking (away from boss), stomp that shares damage, requires stacking (on boss), and a run-away-and-hide-behind-pillar-phase.

    SCC: Requires spreading, handling of adds (CC), tank swap via dragging the boss across a line, and a stacking damage buff that requires said tank swap.
    TK: Adds that blow up and knock you back as well as dealing damage to the boss in phase 2, phase 1 requires periods where tanks/melee have to jump down and run back up at the appropriate times. Phase 2: Meteor, stack up! Adds spawning, move away! FIRE, don't stand in it!
    Hyjal: Don't stand in the D&D, spread out so you don't chain tombs (I think?), heal up those tombs before they die, frostbolts, etc.
    BT: Pull spines out of players, throw them at the boss to pop his bubble, spread out to avoid AOE effects, etc.

    I could go on and on and on, but I think you probably get the point by now. There are no more mechanics to deal with now than there have ever been. I can say this with honesty because I was actually there when they were current. I imagine you can't say the same, because you wouldn't be using a bullshit argument if you knew these things.

  20. #60
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo View Post
    Sounds like a standard pug, openraid or otherwise.
    I haven't used Openraid since Cataclysm, but when I did, it was generally much better than LFR or random pugs. Of course, I used it the way I used to 'pug' raid back in Wrath or BC - putting together a group with lots of friends, and friends of friends, and generally holding people to some basic standards of decency and competency.

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