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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    You're the one being ridiculous. Say you 3 heal 10m and 6 heal 25m and you lose a healer on each. Well now both raids are at 1 healer per 5 people, only thats not really equal because there is more to heal in 25m. You want to talk about dps, go look at required dps for normal fights on 10 versus 25 (the first half which the OP will make it through). 10m is tuned far lower, so yeah you losing 1 dps in 10m is pretty much the same as losing 1 on 25m.

    Now for what I actually think, in terms of punishment, I think they are roughly even. Most of the 10 versus 25 differences actually balances out in the end with the exception of the extra coordination for 25s.
    Thats not quite right. Just going by the HP listed for 10m vs 25m in wowhead for Tortos 25m has 600m HP vs 10m 180m. Assuming a 7 minute fight with 2 tank + 3 healers for 10 and 2 tank + 6 healers for 25 the required DPS from each raid member would surprisingly be pretty close to the same, with 10m needing 85714 DPS per DPS'er and 25m requiring 84033. However with 17 vs 5 DPS if one of your DPS dies in 25m its 1/17th of your damage versus 1/5th of your damage in 10m. It makes deaths in 10 man hurt a lot more than you would give credit for. I do understand that heroics with hard enrages requires both formats require optimal DPS and have been tuned as such, but for normals 10m would have more personal accountability.

    25m from what i have noticed after raiding both formats just requires more time. Not necessarily because of encounter difficulty but because of all the logistics outside of the raid. Things like someone forgetting flasks and needing to hearth or that guy with the bad net connection that has to restart his router every attempt. If you can put the kibosh on most of this behavior then it settles down into being similar to 10m raiding with a bit less personal accountability. Though just because there is the opportunity for it, doesn't mean you should be letting your raiders off the hook for derping about.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by matthias9742 View Post
    a 7 minute fight with 2 tank + 3 healers for 10 and 2 tank + 6 healers for 25
    We mostly 7-healed Tortos to start, 3v6 isn't the right comparison. I think the most fair comparison would be 2 healing vs 5 healing.

    Long story short having done both: Council of Elders and Megaera are easier on 25-man. They have abilities that target the same number of people on 10 and 25 meaning you lose more of your raid to them on 10. Similar to Amber-Shaper.

    Jin'rokh, Ji-Kun, Dark Animus and Lei Shen are harder on 25's. On Jin'rokh you have way more people to possibly murder you by doing something dumb with ionize. Ji-Kun is a really big organization headache and there's a lot less room leading to caw deaths. Dark Animus is another organization and space problem with 25 golems along with spiky tank damage. Lei Shen causes a lot of problems with spreading out for diffusion chain, points of failure with bouncing bolt miscommunication and needing all six people to stack for static shock or death.

    I'd say the rest are a wash. There's spreading out/losing the debuff and organization problems for Iron Qon and Twin Consorts on 25 but you also lose more of your raid to drawing and lightning stun on 10. You have less cooldowns but the abilities also do less damage on 10. Durumu/Horridon/Primordius are roughly similar.

    A person dying hurting more on 10 has always been a dumb argument. If you put 25 people through a mechanic 2.5x more will die to it than if you put 10 through it, on average. On mechanics like ionization where one person instantly wipes the raid by screwing up 25's are more annoying.

    Typically on progression where our DPS is barely adequate, one person dead is still a wipe to berserk on 25's.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2013-05-05 at 05:18 AM.

  3. #23
    IMO 10-man normal modes are generally easier, but 10-man hard modes are generally harder. The tuning and organization makes 10m normals easier, and the extra battle rezzes and how you can live without 1 healer or 1 DPS makes 25 HM easier.

  4. #24
    Brewmaster Palmz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herrenos View Post
    IMO 10-man normal modes are generally easier, but 10-man hard modes are generally harder. The tuning and organization makes 10m normals easier, and the extra battle rezzes and how you can live without 1 healer or 1 DPS makes 25 HM easier.
    You can do the same in 10 man as well. Missing one dps isn't going to make or break a 10 man HC kill. A month ago while guilds were trying to get world firsts, 10 man's were killing bosses 1 minute before enrages with much lower ilvls while 25 mans were downing bosses seconds before or after the enrage. If you were leaving one dps down in 25 man's, you weren't beating the enrage timer. What most of the WoW population fails to realize is that 25 man's in the early stages of a tier are very strict, while 10 man's are still very lenient. 25 man's in the first few weeks of a tier are a different breed on their own.
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