Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Holy Pala - Haste as a viable option?

    + Faster cast of Holy Light, Divine Light and Holy Radiance:
    This might result in increased Holy Power generation if you cast alot of DL or HR. And since 2 Holy light only need 15 000mana (instead of 21 600 of Divine Light) I would assume it to be more mana friendly to cast 2 x 1.25sec Holy light instead of 1 x 2.5sec Divine Light.

    + Faster Divine Plea if glyphed.
    Divine Plea reduce your Healing by 50% for 9 sec but give you 30 000 mana over 9sec.
    Glyph will make it a castable spell. Increased speed mean you suffer less from the downside of Divine Plea.

    + More procs from RPPM Trinket/Enchant/Gem
    RPPM benefit from Haste. If you can increase the proc rate of Horridon Last Gasp by 20% over a 7minute fight, it's alot of mana. Add to that the legendary Meta Gem.

    + More tick from EF (or Sacred Shield)
    With alot of Haste I would probably go SS instead of EF. But simply because we would sacrifice alot of Mastery to go high on haste. Also, the lowest mastery we can go raid buff is 19.5%(16.25 when 5.3 is here).

    - Less mana friendly
    Not sure if realy less mana friendly. Again, if trinket trigger more often and you cast more Holy Light instead of Divine, I would assume it to be the same in the end.

    - Less Absorb from IH
    Even at 19.5%(16.25% to come), you should still have plenty of Healing from IH.

    - You need alot of haste rating, which mean you lose lot of other stats.
    If my calcul are good :
    1.25sec = 31 000 haste rating.
    1.5sec = 18 800 haste rating.
    1.75sec = 10 000 haste rating.

    -------------------------------------

    Ok, now you may think I am crazy. I agree it is totaly impossible to reach a 1 sec Holy Light. This would requier an insane amount of haste rating. But the 1.75sec is possible right now with 522 gear and you would keep a great level of spirit. The 1.5sec would probably be possible with patch 5.4.

    Mastery is geting a nerf for 5.3. Some player are going to crit and other are remaining mastery. I haven't seen much talk of haste.

    I don't understand very well RPPM and how it synergies with haste. Would it be accurate to say haste is a mana source if it increase the proc rate of some trinket? And how could we quantify it?

  2. #2
    The amount that haste increases the RPPM of trinkets isn't enough to off set the amount of mana you use with it

    Also the major Haste break point you want to reach is around the 1.5 sec HL mark, before that its not really worth it, as thats when we can increase our rotation to HS > HL > HL > HL, but even then I wouldn't see the increase in HL casts making up for the massive drop in mana efficiency from Mastery, you're talking about losing ~25% bonus free healing on every heal we cast (bar the exceptions), you have to cover a lot of ground to make up for that.

  3. #3
    Say we only aim for the 1.75sec breakpoint (since it is also the +5 tick to EF) which is 10 800 Rating.

    (15 ticks * 15000 heal each) + 19.5% mastery = 225 000 heal + 43 875 absorb = 268 875 total
    (12 ticks * 15000 heal each) + 46.5% mastery = 180 000 heal + 83 700 absorb = 263 700 total

    5.3 coming "soon or late"
    (15 ticks * 15000 heal each) + 16.25% mastery = 225 000 heal + 36 563 absorb = 261 563 total
    (12 ticks * 15000 heal each) + 38.75% mastery = 180 000 heal + 69 750 absorb = 249 750 total

    2 x Divine Light (15.5% haste) :
    2.17sec * 2 = 4.34sec cast
    21 600mana * 2 = 43 200mana
    (68 900 heal * 2) + 46.5% mastery = 137 800 heal + 64 077 absorb = 201 877 total
    (68 900 heal * 2) + 38.75% mastery = 137 800 heal + 53 398 absorb = 191 198 total
    + 68 900 Beacon heal

    3 Holy Light (45% haste) :
    1.72sec * 3 = 5.16sec cast
    7560mana * 3 = 22 680mana
    (36 800 heal * 3 +) 19.5% mastery = 110 400 heal + 21 528 absorb = 131 928 total
    (36 800 heal * 3 +) 16.25% mastery = 110 400 heal + 17940 absorb = 128340 total
    + 110 400 Beacon heal

    Those are quick calcul I made, hope I diden't made mystake. The increase in redirected Healing to the bearer of Beacon is great with Haste and since Beacon dosen't benefit from Mastery it's even beter.

    I don't know if it would be possible to "EF blank" with that much haste and so low mastery. (I am not even sure to understand the principle of blanking EF....). But it seam alot of paly are doing it.

    Note: The Healing value are from my paly. You might have different Healing value with your own paly.

    Always forget to ask. Arround how many Spirit do you think you'll be standing with 10 800 haste? I think it is easily possible to reach a minimum of 11 000 spirit with 522iLvl. But you would need gear with only Spirit and Haste. no reforge.
    Last edited by LittleXdav; 2013-05-04 at 03:25 AM.

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,243
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleXdav View Post
    Ok, now you may think I am crazy. I agree it is totaly impossible to reach a 1 sec Holy Light. This would requier an insane amount of haste rating. But the 1.75sec is possible right now with 522 gear and you would keep a great level of spirit. The 1.5sec would probably be possible with patch 5.4.
    Why the fuck would you ever want to reach a 1 sec Holy Light?

  5. #5
    Why not? If you could heal more with 2 Holy Light and requiere less mana than 1 Divine Light. Why wouldn't you want 1 sec Holy Light?

    By the way I already concluded this would be impossible to reach 1sec Holy Light. But I still aim and think it's possible to go for the 1.5. And for patch 5.3, I gona try 1.75 sec.

  6. #6
    Haste returns too little for the investment.

    In 5.3 10k haste will give you maybe 3 more ticks of EF. You could have 20% mastery instead. My EF ticks for ~11k.
    Haste has no effect other then reducing gcd for Holy Shock & Light's Hammer which make up quite a lot of our healing.

    Even the faster cast time on Holy Radiance/Holy Light/Divine Light is debatable because every paladin(even non crit reforged ones) have 40% chance to crit with HS.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,630
    haste is going to be comparable but mastery "cloaks" so much that even overhealing matters less, also on fights where there's no constant raid damage but one big hit (Magaera) you can eternal flame stack up absorbs on people and that's gonna do quite a lot. You can go a 4set T14 and haste build and spam HS and EF on the entire raid prob but I really don't see that as needed or viable... at that point you fall into the role of a resto druid or a mw monk which prob would do a better job than you anyways without having to go into retarded builds.

    Haste is going to become a viable build but still inferior to mastery unless they actually nerf mastery more.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  8. #8
    Aladya : I am not sure to understand your arguments. Haste dosen't affect in anyway the coldown of Holyshock and Light Hammer. The only think it will do to Light Hammer, and I am not sure of what I write, is reduce the time between each tick of Light Hammer, but it won't give additional tick to it.
    I wouldn't rely only on Holyshock crit to hasten HolyLight and co. Even if it as 40% chance to crit, it as 60% chance to be a normal hit. Also, it will only haste your next spell, not your next 3/4 spell.

    Huntingbear : I don't know. Haste build look like a complete different playstyle. Instead of casting Divine Light/Holy radiance to build Holy Power and spaming EF arround the raid, I would Spam Holy Light on the raid and cast EF on the tank or maybe go SS and keep Word of Glory as emergency/heavy damage heal(like after triple poncture). This "rotation" could even result being more mana friendly. Holy avenger is an amazing CD which can only benefit from Haste. Though I haven't tried anything yet, and it's only my believe.

  9. #9
    You can call it the "oomadin" build.

  10. #10
    You can go oom with any build. Haste build mean you will have to do cleaver use of your spell and mana.

  11. #11
    Haste might be worth stacking so you can always cast one HR/DL when you get a meta proc but that wont be more than like 4k haste and even then it might be too much haste.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleXdav View Post
    You can go oom with any build. Haste build mean you will have to do cleaver use of your spell and mana.
    I encourage you to try it for yourself - I'm confident you'll find it isn't worth going haste. Haste is extremely strong for holy light spam but in reality there aren't usually cased where holy light spam is 'good' because tank damage is rarely consistent and predictable. Mastery and EF aren't just good because of math, they're good because they're extremely versatile. The nerf is pretty minor, crit might be looking good on paper again but it will never match Mastery's reliability.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleXdav View Post
    You can go oom with any build. Haste build mean you will have to do cleaver use of your spell and mana.
    why game your mana regen with tricks and cleverness for a haste build when you can have better hps and mana longevity with a mastery build?
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  14. #14
    I did some little tests yesterday. I could only swap 5-6000 Mastery to Haste, but that was enough to conclude haste isen't an option for me.
    The main reason was that I forgot lag and reaction to clip spell. When you are chaneling a spell, there is a time frame you can "clip" next spell and it will be added to the queue for the next chaneled spell. In my case, even if I am prety sure that I did everything right, the next spell might not in the queue but will still triger the general coldown... I realised yesterday that with increased haste, it occured more often.

    I concluded that haste wasen't good for me because the advantage it gave me was mostly nullified by my lag and cliping issue. (and since I almost never use Flash of Light, I couldn't have realised it before)

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,822
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleXdav View Post
    Aladya : I am not sure to understand your arguments. Haste dosen't affect in anyway the coldown of Holyshock and Light Hammer. The only think it will do to Light Hammer, and I am not sure of what I write, is reduce the time between each tick of Light Hammer, but it won't give additional tick to it.

    GCD and spell cooldown are not the same thing at all.

  16. #16
    Currently Mastery just is King. Especially as a pally you dont need haste. Through our HS crits we get enough fast casts for DL, HR (HL). Mastery costs NO mana and is usually NO overheal.
    I tried a haste build myself a few IDs back and found I didnt need that extra Haste. One could argue to go for the 3506 Haste Cap for extra EF ticks, but I would only ever go for it if you already are close to that cap and if you can make EF blanketing work good for you. I suppose with 5.3 that cap becomes more interesting as gear goes up quickly and mastery ist not as strong anymore.

  17. #17
    Haste is viable for the OOM spec and "I can't heal" spec, just don't, please.

    I've tried the haste build in Jin'rokh, Horridon and Council 25H, it sucked badly. You are healing faster but also healing for less (reduced shields) so you have to cast more on a target to actually keep it alive, being said, you are wasting more mana, also, neither Holy Prism or Light's Hammer benefit from haste.
    IM TEH RET! er... teh holy... or it was teh prot?!
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquilesmagno View Post
    Haste is viable for the OOM spec and "I can't heal" spec, just don't, please.

    I've tried the haste build in Jin'rokh, Horridon and Council 25H, it sucked badly. You are healing faster but also healing for less (reduced shields) so you have to cast more on a target to actually keep it alive, being said, you are wasting more mana, also, neither Holy Prism or Light's Hammer benefit from haste.
    Not Execution Sentence either, not sure why you left that out.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasstapp View Post
    Not Execution Sentence either, not sure why you left that out.
    I've done almost every fight in H (except LS and Raden) and I have yet to find an use for ES. Correct me if I'm wrong please, being honest, I've never tried.
    IM TEH RET! er... teh holy... or it was teh prot?!
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,243
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquilesmagno View Post
    I've done almost every fight in H (except LS and Raden) and I have yet to find an use for ES. Correct me if I'm wrong please, being honest, I've never tried.
    I think Aladya from Method put it pretty well by saying it's only useful if there is a giant silver dragon for you to heal.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •