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  1. #21
    Silver dragon in ToT? Wtf
    IM TEH RET! er... teh holy... or it was teh prot?!
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  2. #22
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquilesmagno View Post
    Silver dragon in ToT? Wtf

    They were referring to Tsulong...

  3. #23
    Sorry, I didnt know that we wee discussing last tier, english is not my first language and sometimes I fuck up, I apologize.
    IM TEH RET! er... teh holy... or it was teh prot?!
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  4. #24
    Haste also increase your "burst healing" potential and reaction speed. => It's damn bad feeling watching your 2 second divine light being cast while your tank is dying.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franto View Post
    Haste also increase your "burst healing" potential and reaction speed. => It's damn bad feeling watching your 2 second divine light being cast while your tank is dying.
    You shouldn't really cast divine lights on a dying tank if he's gonna die that soon, at least not without the haste proc that would make more haste kind of meaningless anyway. You cast WoG/EF, HS, LoH, hope your other healers will catch it in time, or watch him die (or maybe FoL is you're absoluetly desperate). If he's gonna die in under 2 seconds and someone's done zero to prepare that then the problem isn't with someone's gearing choice.

    One of hpaladins' greatest strengths is the ability to save up 3-5 HP and daybreak for tank damage phases and just slam him with three extremely strong instant cast heals back-to-back at a moment's notice.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    You shouldn't really cast divine lights on a dying tank if he's gonna die that soon, at least not without the haste proc that would make more haste kind of meaningless anyway. You cast WoG/EF, HS, LoH, hope your other healers will catch it in time, or watch him die (or maybe FoL is you're absoluetly desperate).
    Flash of Light is pretty underrated in my books. It's a crappy heal, but at least in high-tank-damage situations if you have nothing else, by the time you've finished deciding whether to use Flash or Divine Light (based on considering tank burst, mana usage factors), it's already too late.

    In raid situations it isn't that useful (for the most part unless as pointed out you've already let things go wrong), in CM's I've found it very useful.

  7. #27
    Even with mastery nerfs next patch i doubt they will be enough to warrant going to a haste build. Its just not what it used to be. You lose so much mastery, and it takes such a HUGE amount of haste to get to a decently fast cast time, that its simply not worth the time.

    I don't find my slower heals lacking either. If the tank is about to die you wouldnt be casting anything anyway, you would HS, Holy Prism (if you have it), LoH, WoG...etc.

    I would prefer 20% more mastery over a slightly shaved Divine Light cast time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  8. #28
    How do people feel about reforging to the 3.5k haste breakpoint as gear and "wasted" haste increases. By wasted haste I mean haste you cannot avoid accumulating, ie. a spirit+haste item.
    I would personally lose ~900 mastery at 525 ilvl, but enjoy an increased proc chance from meta, double rppm trinkets, a faster swing timer, marginally faster gcd and spells casts.

    Last time I calculated the raw healing of 12 vs 13 EF ticks (+beacon), 12 ticks won pretty clearly, but that was sometime during t14 with ~15ilvl lower gear and none of the rppm items.

    (I play 10man and usually 2heal 95% of all fights)
    Last edited by muglia; 2013-05-17 at 11:06 AM.

  9. #29
    People are very quick to answer Haste is absolute shit, but the answer depends on what setting you play. The one and mostly only thing Haste does for a Holy Pally is increase burst healing.

    Now why would an increase in burst healing by valuable enough to stack it over a full mastery build?

    In 25man: it isnt.

    In 10man: it can be. Especially if you are 2 healing a lot of fights. Or if you are playing with other classes that don't have a lot of burst potential. This is the one reason I decided to go with a Haste build. I have 7.3k Haste and around 3k Mastery in 522 normal gear. I decided to switch from Mastery to Haste, after losing T14 4pc 2sec off Holy Shock. Before that, you casted so many instants and got so much HoPo for even more instants, haste had little value. But without that Holy Shock to use constantly, getting more Haste really helps save some people, and give me more HoPo through Holy Radiances. It also help to get more use out of the 4sec clearcasting you get from the legendary metagem.

    Also, the haste build is really fun to solo heal the bosses we still do on normal ^^

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar View Post
    People are very quick to answer Haste is absolute shit, but the answer depends on what setting you play. The one and mostly only thing Haste does for a Holy Pally is increase burst healing.
    That other stats don't do better? Your 7.3k haste rating is giving you a 1.10 second GCD, which is extremely close to capping at this point. Your returns have really, really diminished long before this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar View Post
    ... really helps save some people,... give me more HoPo through Holy Radiances... get more use out of the 4sec clearcasting you get from the legendary metagem... solo heal the bosses we still do on normal ^^
    How does haste help accomplish any of that that other stats don't do better?
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-05-18 at 07:30 PM.

  11. #31
    Are you just trolling me?

    - Haste can be the difference between getting two heals off fast enough to save several people at low HP and having half of them die while you are casting your spell.
    - Haste gives more HoPo through Holy Radiance. Mastery doesn't increase HoPo generation at all.
    - Haste can get you 2 free Holy Radiances in the 4sec of Meta gem. How does Mastery do this?
    - Solo healing bosses: as the sole healer, you are the one person that has to do everything. While mastery may increase your overall HPS, Haste again as with point 1 can save people in heavy burst healing phases.

    I never said at any point that Mastery isnt the best HPS. It is. But Haste is better in burst healing phases. And in 10man Throne of Thunder, burst healing phases are the only thing Blizzard put in to challenge healers.

    I can't stand people that say stats are shit for the sole reason they don't put you on top of the HPS meter. Healing has nothing to do with HPS meters. As a healer, your job is to save people so they can do dmg and kill the boss. In 10man Haste can be enough of a difference to save people.

    And it's not like Haste is going to OOM you. I don't even run full spirit gems and there hasnt been a fight yet I've run OOM on so far.
    Last edited by rohendar; 2013-05-18 at 08:27 PM.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar View Post
    Haste can be the difference between getting two heals off fast enough to save several people at low HP and having half of them die while you are casting your spell.
    Your haste stacking (7300 versus 3000) gets you about a ~0.17 (at most) second reduction on the cast time of Holy Radiance. That's not going to "get two heals off fast enough versus having half of them die" - most AoE ticks at least 0.5 seconds apart which means that your 0.35 seconds is doing a lot less than you might think.

    Haste can get you 2 free Holy Radiances in the 4sec of Meta gem. How does Mastery do this?
    Realistically you will not get 2 free HR's with your massive haste stacking; given that your HR cast time is 1.85 if your LMG proc'ced off of any instant you would not be able to get 2 regardless.


    P.S.: None of this is counting Infusion HR's (which occur more often with DF up as you know), where with or without Bloodlust or Divine Favor, your haste stacking is doing zero.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-05-18 at 10:12 PM.

  13. #33
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Why would you be gearing so you can 1 heal farm content(which btw can be done with a mastery build as well) over gearing for progression content. Mastery allows you to get more absorbs out that help increase the effective health of your raid which is far more helpful in progression. Mastery > Haste.

    Also I get 2 flash of lights and a holy shock out when the meta is up. I am getting more HP than you are by just casting 2 holy radiances(which in a 10m setting are likely not doing much healing) while using a mastery build with very little haste.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar View Post
    People are very quick to answer Haste is absolute shit, but the answer depends on what setting you play. The one and mostly only thing Haste does for a Holy Pally is increase burst healing.

    Now why would an increase in burst healing by valuable enough to stack it over a full mastery build?

    In 25man: it isnt.

    In 10man: it can be. Especially if you are 2 healing a lot of fights. Or if you are playing with other classes that don't have a lot of burst potential. This is the one reason I decided to go with a Haste build. I have 7.3k Haste and around 3k Mastery in 522 normal gear. I decided to switch from Mastery to Haste, after losing T14 4pc 2sec off Holy Shock. Before that, you casted so many instants and got so much HoPo for even more instants, haste had little value. But without that Holy Shock to use constantly, getting more Haste really helps save some people, and give me more HoPo through Holy Radiances. It also help to get more use out of the 4sec clearcasting you get from the legendary metagem.

    Also, the haste build is really fun to solo heal the bosses we still do on normal ^^
    All of this can be done with a mastery build. The .17 sec reduced cast time you get from stacking an inefficient stat nets you almost nothing in the long run. I estimate you lose about 15-20% mastery? How is that a decent trade off?

    You should be gearing to progress through harder content not solo healing easier content.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  15. #35
    Since when healing normal is the same as healing heroic? :O
    IM TEH RET! er... teh holy... or it was teh prot?!
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar View Post
    Are you just trolling me?

    - Haste can be the difference between getting two heals off fast enough to save several people at low HP and having half of them die while you are casting your spell.
    - Haste gives more HoPo through Holy Radiance. Mastery doesn't increase HoPo generation at all.
    - Haste can get you 2 free Holy Radiances in the 4sec of Meta gem. How does Mastery do this?
    - Solo healing bosses: as the sole healer, you are the one person that has to do everything. While mastery may increase your overall HPS, Haste again as with point 1 can save people in heavy burst healing phases.

    I never said at any point that Mastery isnt the best HPS. It is. But Haste is better in burst healing phases. And in 10man Throne of Thunder, burst healing phases are the only thing Blizzard put in to challenge healers.

    I can't stand people that say stats are shit for the sole reason they don't put you on top of the HPS meter. Healing has nothing to do with HPS meters. As a healer, your job is to save people so they can do dmg and kill the boss. In 10man Haste can be enough of a difference to save people.

    And it's not like Haste is going to OOM you. I don't even run full spirit gems and there hasnt been a fight yet I've run OOM on so far.
    This whole post is derp in my books. Perhaps if you had that extra 15-20% mastery people wouldn't be low in the first place because you'd have been placing super duper absorbs on them. Changing cast time by fractions of a second may or may not do that, even if it does its far from ideal.

    Is it viable? Clearly because some people use it. Is it optimal? No.

    You can count the number of serious raiders that went haste on the fingers of an armless man.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    All of this can be done with a mastery build. The .17 sec reduced cast time you get from stacking an inefficient stat nets you almost nothing in the long run. I estimate you lose about 15-20% mastery? How is that a decent trade off?
    It's not even that, but the whole "haste is more throughput" is a fallacy. It is if you look at everything in a vacuum, but you have to realize:

    1) Any actual fight will take your mana down, if it doesn't you're just not being challenged enough. So Mastery gives more HPM and not just throughput (as does Crit), more HPM also means more sustainable throughput

    2) Infusion of Light procs dramatically reduce how much Haste is worth, because Haste does not increase HPS on Infusion-proc'ed casts

    3) Mastery gives return on overhealing (which happens), Crit and Haste do not

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