Is their a BiS Resto normal guide?

[gulrakis]

Just wondering is their a BiS Resto tot normal guide? just wondering.

[zcrooked]

You can use www.askmrrobot.com to find out what you want pretty easily now.



Your welcome!

[Trubo]

snip
Your welcome!

What is up with every recommendation guide making Spirit seem like the best thing since sliced bread? I understand that for high-end progression guilds that run with fewer healers that Spirit is king but for most people I still think Mastery trumps Spirit as a lot of healing is going to get sniped from absorbs.

Also Celce with 12k spirit and the Meta: does she even use Innervate anymore?

[zcrooked]

What is up with every recommendation guide making Spirit seem like the best thing since sliced bread? I understand that for high-end progression guilds that run with fewer healers that Spirit is king but for most people I still think Mastery trumps Spirit as a lot of healing is going to get sniped from absorbs.

Spirit is the best stat to get if your doing the current progression. (Heroic ToT) If you aren't then you should aim for a spirit number your comfortable with.
Once you figured your spirit number, reforge/regem in that priority: Haste 3043> Intel > Mastery > Spirit > Crit.

The spirit number required to be comfortable depend on your actual progression. I wouldn't limit myself to 12k spirit to get a bit more hps.. I prefer to be able to heal for the whole fight and make sure nobody dies. A healer OOM isn't helping at all in a fight. Your stats and HPS will raise with your progression so just go spirit unless you end up every fight with too much mana left.

I don't understand why you need to cut your spirit number by 20-30% to get more throughput... you will just over heal alot more... other class have absorbs mechanics, so in priority of healing absorbs goes before direct/hots.

And ALSO, I have 14.5k spirit/ Legendary meta gem/ I use mana pot/ spirit flask and the trinket from shadopan.

[Trubo]

Spirit is the best stat to get if your doing the current progression. (Heroic ToT) If you aren't then you should aim for a spirit number your comfortable with.
Once you figured your spirit number, reforge/regem in that priority: Haste 3043> Intel > Mastery > Spirit > Crit.

The spirit number required to be comfortable depend on your actual progression. I wouldn't limit myself to 12k spirit to get a bit more hps.. I prefer to be able to heal for the whole fight and make sure nobody dies. A healer OOM isn't helping at all in a fight. Your stats and HPS will raise with your progression so just go spirit unless you end up every fight with too much mana left.

I don't understand why you need to cut your spirit number by 20-30% to get more throughput... you will just over heal alot more... other class have absorbs mechanics, so in priority of healing absorbs goes before direct/hots.

And ALSO, I have 14.5k spirit/ Legendary meta gem/ I use mana pot/ spirit flask and the trinket from shadopan.

How are you OoMing then? I'm running 9.5k spirit, spirit+crit meta, int flask, spirit mixed gems for socket bonus and I rarely finish a fight with less than 150k mana.

[zcrooked]

How are you OoMing then? I'm running 9.5k spirit, spirit+crit meta, int flask, spirit mixed gems for socket bonus and I rarely finish a fight with less than 150k mana.

where u at in progression?

[Deleted]

I'm in early Heroic progression (2/13, going Horridon next Wednesday) and I'm finding my balance around 12k spirit myself. I have 2 mana regen trinkets (VP one and TF Horridon) and the legendary meta, so that covers most of it. I still have enough throughput to have a WoL rank on pretty much every fight.

What I don't like about that mrrobot pic (apart from almost 16k spirit) is that it assumes TF items everywhere. I know in theory it is a BiS list, but you're not realistically going to get TF everywhere. In that case, assuming you want to stay around the 3043 haste breakpoint, the VP bracers and belt are better than the non-TF drops from Tortos and Twins. The crafted boots > Durumu's, the trash neck > Lei Shen's, and the Council weapon > Lei Shen's.

Even if I got TF haste items in some of these slots I'd consider not swapping. I just don't have a purpose for that much haste.

[Trubo]

where u at in progression?

Sadly I have yet to see heroic Jinrohk die (had a 5% wipe before we had to call it quits). Guild only has 3 nights a reset to raid so we can only afford one night to Heroic attempts before full clearing normal. Only just got normal Lei Shen down on 25 so not sure if we can really consider him on farm.

Edit: Link to my druid

[zcrooked]

Sadly I have yet to see heroic Jinrohk die (had a 5% wipe before we had to call it quits). Guild only has 3 nights a reset to raid so we can only afford one night to Heroic attempts before full clearing normal. Only just got normal Lei Shen down on 25 so not sure if we can really consider him on farm.

Edit: Link to my druid

Oh Ok your playing 25 man's, 6 heal setup?

I'm currently playing on a 10 man and we are 5/13 Heroic , healing Heroic's Tortos/Magaera/Council/Quon is very healing intensive mana without breaks.

You may have to adjust because Jin'rokh is like so easy in term of difficulty.

Also GL on ur Head token. 4pc resto druid is very awesome in 25m. Also pick the boomchicken chest for resto hes very good

My Bnethttp://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...heals/advanced

Full Spirit Cascade - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%A8/advanced
Full Spirit Manodoom - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%B8om/advanced
Full mastery/spellpower - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isste/advanced
Full spellpower 牛人佐拉 - http://www.battlenet.com.cn/wow/zh/c...6%8B%89/simple

Play the style you want as long as your comfortable with it.

[Thalur]

I'm currently playing on a 10 man and we are 5/13 Heroic , healing Heroic's Tortos/Magaera/Council/Quon is very healing intensive mana without breaks.

Spirit needs are very subjective, even for those encounters. I healed IronQon and Tortos hc, and found myself perfectly fine with 10k spirit (2 regen trinkets, legendary meta). Actually I found that Throughput > Regen especially for those healing-intensive encounters. But of course spirit goes up with better gear as well.

Play the style you want as long as your comfortable with it.

Exactly. Also, "normal BiS" lists are highly overrated. You'll quickly get the back and wrist from Jin'rokh hc, which are nowhere near BiS, but much better than everything you get in normal mode.

[Aleks0410]

I used to raid heroics untill MoP so I have no heroic experience in this expansion. Also, I'm by no means good at math. Still I'd like to ask a question regarding all the "stack spirit for heroics, you really need it" comments. Thinking back, reading Hamlets post about spirit, I'm pretty sure 1k spirit gave you 2 more rejuvs over 3 min (correct me if I'm wrong).

Now with that in mind, why are heroic raiding druids stacking spirit. It's not like you get more out of your spirit if you raid heroics, it's still the same numbers. What I mean is: Spirit is equally shit in normals and heroics. Spirit will come naturally with gear of course. It's not like I'm saying "pick pieces with no spirit" (at least not yet) but stacking spirit at the cost of mastery/intellect seems wrong to me.

Now, I don't know how much % in output you'd lose by going from, say 10k spirit to 14k spirit. If the increased number of rejuvs you get from that more spirit will actually get you more healing than you'd get from that mastery or intellect, then sure, I see the point. But I don't think that was the case.

I think many druids look at the "heroic comments" and go "oh crap, I need the spirit for heroic progression" without actually knowing how much (or how little) spirit does for them. Again, I'm raiding 4 hours a week so I couldn't tell, but 1k spirit = 2 rejuvs? I know what stat I'm going to stack, and it's not spirit, heroics or not

[Thalur]

It's not like you get more out of your spirit if you raid heroics, it's still the same numbers. What I mean is: Spirit is equally shit in normals and heroics.

That's not true. For druids, some of the current heroic fights are already back at the WotLK healing model: you need to have a rejuv up on everyone (10 man) for long periods of the fight. (With "need" I mean that otherwise your HPS in those situations will be too low to counter the incoming damage.)
So while in normal mode, there's no point in more spirit since you don't need to cast more spells, for some heroics Rejuv spamming is required and you need to get the mana somewhere. The difference between 7k and 12k spirit is somewhere around 30 Rejuv casts over a bossfight, and that is a significant number.

That being said, with all the mana management utilities we currently have, stacking as much spirit as possible is not required even for heroics. Everyone has to find the balance for himself. For me, the sweet spot is somewhere between 10k and 12k spirit.

[Aleks0410]

Thalur, i had a feeling my post would be misunderstood like that. My English is not my main language so I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

I understand that you need more HPS (in this case rejuv spamming) in heroic encounters. My point was that more spirit isn't going to give you more rejuvs in heroic than it is in normals. Obviously. But I think more an more Druids kind of ignore or forget that simple fact. The general idea seems like: normals, don't bother too much with spirit. Heroics, stack more spirit cus you're gonna need it. But that doesn't make sense to me since 1k spirit = 2 rejuvs/3 min. Again, that's really not a big gain IMO.

Obviously from 7k to 12k would be a bigger impact on your healing. But I don't think any heroic raiding Druids are raiding with 7k spirit. Unless you reforge out of spirit and take non-spirit items (which isn't what I'm suggesting) that's probably near impossible with tier 15 any way.

[Deleted]

This if off topic, sorry about this gulrakis.

How are you OoMing then? I'm running 9.5k spirit, spirit+crit meta, int flask, spirit mixed gems for socket bonus and I rarely finish a fight with less than 150k mana.

I have 15.2k spirit/legendary meta gem. Uses pots, innervate and hymn from priest. I still go OOM on some fights (especially when progressing). Guess it depends on play style. Playing 10 man, currently 6/13 hc.

My main is Wir on Shattered Hand (EU), not allowed to post a link on mmo-champion yet. ;P

[Trubo]

Also GL on ur Head token. 4pc resto druid is very awesome in 25m. Also pick the boomchicken chest for resto hes very good

Thanks for your reply and those links. However I'm curious why you suggest Balance tier chest over council. If we're talking same ilvl then I would agree with you but if council ever dropped a thunderforged chest wouldn't it being thunderforged make up for the extra gem slot that the Tier 15 chests have?

But to go back on topic: I would take Fist from Council and Off-hand from Lei Shen (if you can afford the spirit) over what the guide in post two suggests. Probably some other items I'd switch around but I'd need more time than I currently have to compare items.

[Thalur]

Thanks for your reply and those links. However I'm curious why you suggest Balance tier chest over council. If we're talking same ilvl then I would agree with you but if council ever dropped a thunderforged chest wouldn't it being thunderforged make up for the extra gem slot that the Tier 15 chests have?

Thunderforged Council = Boomkin Tier Chest > Normal Council. If you raid 10 man, you'll probably never see the TF chest drop, while tokens are fairly common. Also, the difference between TF council and Tier chest is quite minimal; for my stat weights, they are almost the same.

Obviously from 7k to 12k would be a bigger impact on your healing. But I don't think any heroic raiding Druids are raiding with 7k spirit. Unless you reforge out of spirit and take non-spirit items (which isn't what I'm suggesting) that's probably near impossible with tier 15 any way.

The point is, when you say spirit doesn't give you anything, that counts for all of it. But of course, the 10k spirit I have allow me to cast quite a lot of extra Rejuvs, and while it's true that it's not possible to go much below that, it shows that spirit is far from useless. Clever play can give you more mana than all the spirit, but at some point, you just need those additional rejuvs.

Additionally, there is no alternative to spirit. The only point would be to reforge it to mastery, but most of my items are spi/mas anyway, so I could only reforge spirit to crit.

[zcrooked]

Thanks for your reply and those links. However I'm curious why you suggest Balance tier chest over council. If we're talking same ilvl then I would agree with you but if council ever dropped a thunderforged chest wouldn't it being thunderforged make up for the extra gem slot that the Tier 15 chests have?

the mastery/spirit bonus from balance chest is better

[Aleks0410]

Clever play can give you more mana than all the spirit

I couldn't agree more

but at some point, you just need those additional rejuvs.

You might need them, but at what expense? Say you increase your spirit from 12k to 14k via gemming. You'd gain 8 more rejuvs over 6 min. That's not even an entire 10 man raid team for ONE mechanic. Now, if that indeed saves your raid from dying, then yes, it is worth it. But how much would you gain from stacking mastery instead? Would you take some pressure off the other healers for every Rampage on Magaera for example?

Additionally, there is no alternative to spirit. The only point would be to reforge it to mastery, but most of my items are spi/mas anyway, so I could only reforge spirit to crit.

I agree, if all your items are Mastery/Spirit, there's no point in reforging/gemming otherwise.

No, spirit isn't a useless stat - you certainly need some to get through an encounter. All I'm saying is after a certain point, I don't get why druids stack it. 'Cus the numbers still hold true (right?): 1000 spirit = 2 rejuvs / 3 min which, to me, says it all.

[Drefan]

It has to do with your playstyle imo.
I used to play full Master / Int with around 8k Spirit. I use my mana efficiently and therefor it worked without problem even during progresson.
In the current tier I find myself spamming more rejuvs than I did before and therefor I've changed towards a spirit build because otherwise I would be running oom to fast.
I'm also heavly undergeared sitting around 513 Ilvl. I find that spirit is helping me out the most atm, and I still do not have the legendary meta. Once I obtain better gear I will most likely change towards an Int / Mastery build once again

Our progression is 10/13 HC

[Aleks0410]

In the current tier I find myself spamming more rejuvs than I did before and therefor I've changed towards a spirit build because otherwise I would be running oom to fast.

Sorry to keep coming back to this, but this is exactly what I mean. Dref, let me ask you a question. How much spirit did you gain since your mastery/int build? And do you know how many more rejuvs you're now able to cast with your extra spirit?