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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Wootylicious View Post
    so on top of the fact that our combo builders hit for the same they did in cata you wanna nerf our finishers that finally do some damage too?
    Evis doesn't just "do damage". Evis hits for 130-150k and you can do 2 in a row every minute. Lower it by 20% and it will mean you won't kill people in the first cheap shot.

  2. #22
    its reverted.said holinka

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I agree. But it was flat out broken overpowered before. It NEEDED a nerf. I'd actually say that it should never even have been implemented. There's no way they can make the talent balanced.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-04 at 04:33 PM ----------



    The class really don't need any buffs to compensate them for the 5.3 nerfs. 5.2 over-buffed them to be probably the most overpowered class in the history of this game.
    The most OP spec in the history of the game would be Rets. Rets have been buffed continuously since 2.01 and still, after all these years, retain their Bubble, Lay On Hands and BoF which they can still abuse in world PvP in addition to having the longest stun in the game.

    They are still not solo-able in World PvP (maybe other Paladin specs are not soloable too) after all these years, and still, after all these years, do require a healer to take down and maybe an additional DPS as you still have to contend with a spec with unlimited resources, plate armor, and two health bars (through the use of Lay On Hands) so in essence, you have got to do to them twice or maybe three times the damage you would need to do to another player of a different class.

    Compare all the above with a Rogue, the squishiest and least-played leather wearing class in the game, and you see how biased you are.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    le cloak? or trinket?
    And what would you do if they didn't have cloak and dagger and cloaked danced?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by walled56 View Post
    its reverted.said holinka
    Where? The only tweet I've seen mentioning reverting cloak and dagger was referring to the 20yard range nerf (now back to 30yard, big deal).
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  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Its not reverted. And it's a good change.

    Kind of light though, I would have left CnD alone, and put a 20s CD on all the opener CC. But I guess they still want you to be able to cheapshot the world during dance, you just have to sprint to do it.
    You, you'll regret what you have done this day, I will make you regret ever being born, you're going to wish you never left your mother's womb, where it was warm and safe and wet, I am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you're going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainbow!
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    le cloak? or trinket?
    Why would you trinket.... so you can get thrown into another cc? LOL you must suck at arena

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    Why would you trinket.... so you can get thrown into another cc? LOL you must suck at arena
    Yup, plus if you trinket offensively you have to be CERTAIN you are going to land a kill, otherwise odds are you're dead before you can dance again. I miss the days of being able to trinket/cloak offensively without getting chewed out by my team.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-04 at 09:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Its not reverted. And it's a good change.

    Kind of light though, I would have left CnD alone, and put a 20s CD on all the opener CC. But I guess they still want you to be able to cheapshot the world during dance, you just have to sprint to do it.
    What's the problem with that? Assuming the rogue has a full energy bar (unlikely if you're having to suddenly pop dance to peel) the rogue will be lucky to end up with 4 combo points on their actual target by the end of the dance. Compare that to ring of frost or ring of peace (1 GCD peels), those aren't even a waste of a DPS cooldown. If you force a triple stun shadowdance, gz you just fully negated the rogues primary source of damage.
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2013-05-04 at 08:10 PM.
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  9. #29
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    le cloak? or trinket?
    cant le cloak physical roots ( narrow escape ) nor can you le cloak or trinket offensively unless you are almost certain you get the kill.

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    So you couldn't stop a warrior because you couldn't root him. What do you think happens when you root a rogue with dance up?
    Warriors were unCC-able with avatar up begin MoP. I believe rogues are able to get out of roots with the CnD talent, and will always stick to you basically making them unpeelable, only through CC which rogues usually countered with CloS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vendredii View Post
    Rogues are still subject to CC while in Shadow Dance, they can be stunned, rooted, feared, etc. But with only 2 offensive CDs as a rogue, not being able to stay on target while using them completely ruins rogue burst. CnD nerf is really bad IMO.
    I believe rogues are able to use CnD even while rooted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Its not reverted. And it's a good change.

    Kind of light though, I would have left CnD alone, and put a 20s CD on all the opener CC. But I guess they still want you to be able to cheapshot the world during dance, you just have to sprint to do it.
    They could also have made it you can't jump to targets anymore when rooted. That alone would make it a lot less OP.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    Warriors were unCC-able with avatar up begin MoP. I believe rogues are able to get out of roots with the CnD talent, and will always stick to you basically making them unpeelable, only through CC which rogues usually countered with CloS.


    I believe rogues are able to use CnD even while rooted.


    They could also have made it you can't jump to targets anymore when rooted. That alone would make it a lot less OP.
    No, rogues can't cloak and dagger or shadowstep while rooted. It was briefly possible to do so on the PTR, but it was nerfed before it hit the live servers. Physical roots are an absolute killer for that reason. Void tendrils could be gouged off in 5.1 but that got nerfed as well.
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2013-05-05 at 12:13 AM.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    Warriors were unCC-able with avatar up begin MoP.
    I believe rogues are able to use CnD even while rooted.
    Wrong and wrong
    Avatar only made you immune to roots and snares and Cnd does not work rooted.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Its not reverted. And it's a good change.

    Kind of light though, I would have left CnD alone, and put a 20s CD on all the opener CC. But I guess they still want you to be able to cheapshot the world during dance, you just have to sprint to do it.
    over top warrior solution aka kill this class because i don't play it, lol.

    personally, i wanna see subterfuge duration cut in half / glyphs for garrote and cheap removed. that's it.. that's a fix imo.

    CnD doesnt bother me at all but i'll take anything at this point against rogues and hunters i guess...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    The most OP spec in the history of the game would be Rets. Rets have been buffed continuously since 2.01 and still, after all these years, retain their Bubble, Lay On Hands and BoF which they can still abuse in world PvP in addition to having the longest stun in the game.

    They are still not solo-able in World PvP (maybe other Paladin specs are not soloable too) after all these years, and still, after all these years, do require a healer to take down and maybe an additional DPS as you still have to contend with a spec with unlimited resources, plate armor, and two health bars (through the use of Lay On Hands) so in essence, you have got to do to them twice or maybe three times the damage you would need to do to another player of a different class.

    Compare all the above with a Rogue, the squishiest and least-played leather wearing class in the game, and you see how biased you are.
    Haha...HAHAHAHA hahah. oh god...ahaahahaa.

    Infracted for minor spam.

    Since it's clear you didn't get me: rets aren't just soloable in world pvp in 5.2, they will die in the first cheap shot just like any class. If they pop a bubble they will now die in the second cheap shot instead of the first.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-05-06 at 05:36 AM.
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  15. #35
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Wrong and wrong
    Avatar only made you immune to roots and snares and Cnd does not work rooted.
    Ah, my bad. I wasn't aware of that, really. I really thought rogues were able to get out of roots with CnD. But even so, it was still stupid rogues are able to jump around with no CD.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    The talent will be next to worthless now. I agree it was a bit OP, but there's honestly no reason to take it anymore.
    Cloak and Dagger has always been useless.
    "It's clear this is another bash Apple thread. Such things are not conducive to a good discussion."

    WRONG! Those are the BEST discussions!

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    The talent will be next to worthless now. I agree it was a bit OP, but there's honestly no reason to take it anymore.
    Agree with this. Just terrible now.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Youarefired View Post
    Cloak and Dagger has always been useless.
    yes i agree... also.. no i don't at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    yes i agree... also.. no i don't at all.
    There are some people, who always took Cloak and Dagger because they were 1500 heroes who thought it was OP. Higher end players choose Shadowstep/Cloak depending on comp. There is nothing insanely OP about Cloak and Dagger. It's just another choice for your movement talent spec.

    The only issue that it has in terms on increasing more than just mobility is that it compliments Subterfuge too well in that it allows you to Cheap/Garotte an entire team.. In my opinion Subterfuge needs a remake. Maybe make it so after coming out of stealth you are untargetable/invisible for 3 seconds but are not considered stealthed.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    There are some people, who always took Cloak and Dagger because they were 1500 heroes who thought it was OP. Higher end players choose Shadowstep/Cloak depending on comp. There is nothing insanely OP about Cloak and Dagger. It's just another choice for your movement talent spec.

    The only issue that it has in terms on increasing more than just mobility is that it compliments Subterfuge too well in that it allows you to Cheap/Garotte an entire team.. In my opinion Subterfuge needs a remake. Maybe make it so after coming out of stealth you are untargetable/invisible for 3 seconds but are not considered stealthed.
    thats all great. what are you quoting me for? are you trying to say only 1500 players take CnD at all? LOL. sure its comp dependent but its like 70-30 for CnD atm. thats along way from 'useless', how you use it is what changes between good and bad players.

    also i you read up i said ;


    "personally, i wanna see subterfuge duration cut in half / glyphs for garrote and cheap removed. that's it.. that's a fix imo.

    CnD doesnt bother me at all but i'll take anything at this point against rogues and hunters i guess..."


    stop quoting me, then saying the same thing and acting like its a revelation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

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