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  1. #1

    Should I go fire?

    Here is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...erlloyd/simple

    Currently frost, and yes I know I need to fix some gems/reforges on my current gear, just got an upgrade and haven't changed it all yet. So don't jump on me with that.

    However I want to know, should I go fire? Every time I go fire I don't do NEARLY as much dps as frost, and I feel like I am not doing something right or not getting high enough combustions to spike my dps up..I'm not really sure what to do..If I fully re-gem/reforge I should have 35/36% crit buffed..However I don't want to switch if I'm going to do less dps than frost. I just don't know, all the top mages as fire and you don't really see any mages at 515+ as frost anymore.

    Definitely need advice.

  2. #2
    Fire isn't about ilvl NEAR as much as it is about crit. I wouldn't recommend switching until your around the 37% area self buffed. Even at 37% you will still have some dryspells I noticed the proc rate to increase significantly when I hit 38-39%+...Not sure what it was about the last 2 percents, but it helped. Also, you've got to understand that player skill comes into play for DPS. If you are a much better frost player than fire, merely switching specs is not going to raise your dps unless you're equally good at fire. I'm at 519 (waiting for my 4pc still) and 39.5% self buffed and it's pretty smooth the majority of the time.

  3. #3
    Do you like to center your play around the building of a decent combust + a very important opener?
    Do you like the lesser options on several aspect of the majority of fights in ToT than you got with frost? (hell maybe even arcane, sad as it is)
    Do you like to suffer from eventuel bad rng, even in great gear?
    Do you play 25man?

    Sure, go fire, freaking boring spec. Slow gameplay and 1 thing to optimise on really. Of cause you do almost as much dmg in fire spec, as you do in frost, they are quite close in bis gear, and with great rng, you will also win on single target, over frost. (just like you will loose if u get a low-crit try)

  4. #4
    If you end up with 36% crit selfbuffed you won't do more dps than frost.

    I tried fire for 2 lockouts with 36.xx% crit selfbuff and I raged so much I respeced an destroyed the meters again

    Sorry
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    If you end up with 36% crit selfbuffed you won't do more dps than frost.

    I tried fire for 2 lockouts with 36.xx% crit selfbuff and I raged so much I respeced an destroyed the meters again

    Sorry
    Fully gemmed and reforged I'm sitting at 38.18% crit self buffed..My biggest problem with fire is trying to get good combustions and I suck at it. I'm trying to watch guides and stuff but I don't see fully how they're doing it..I'll need a lot more research.


    Ontop of that I can't get a good fucking combustion..All of my combustions are legit like 10-12k. Like aren't they supposed to be fucking 50k? This shit is so annoying trying to test it and doing terrible, watching a stupid guide does nothing. Reading this stupid fucking guide does nothing either. All I see on these forums is combustion help and I feel like i've read 20 threads and gotten nowhere. This is frustrating just trying to even do okay as fire. Why are all the fucking top mages in every top guild fire though?
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-05-04 at 07:30 AM.

  6. #6
    I get max ticks for around 282k (crit ofc) with the opener on combust. As I dont play fire normally, I'm not sure whether it's good or bad and I dont really care since as stated previously I think it's so damn boring :S
    But yer, just for comparison.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasufer View Post
    I get max ticks for around 282k (crit ofc) with the opener on combust. As I dont play fire normally, I'm not sure whether it's good or bad and I dont really care since as stated previously I think it's so damn boring :S
    But yer, just for comparison.
    So your combustion ticks for 282k with a crit?..My combustions crit for 22k..

    So you get 22x282k ticks assuming they all crit?

    My best combustion I got on a test dummy was 18k/tick. I feel like that's nowhere near where it should be...Ugh I wish someone would just tell me what im doing wrong. I don't understand why it's such a difficult concept.

    My highest combustion thus far on a test dummy was 28k ticks. Ugh. I'm pulling like 85k on a target dummy..thats NOWHERE near where I sim and I pull way more as frost.. This sucks.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-05-04 at 07:54 AM.

  8. #8
    Okay there calm down, you just said the magic word - "dummy". You comb will hit alot harder with raidbuffs consider food, flask, stats and most importantly mastery.
    With some nice RNG and a few Pyro crits in a row you will reach a nice combustion, the mastery buff does ALOT as well as the extra int you will have when raiding.
    I actually haven't tried fire in a while because frankly I find frost to be more fun and since it is very viable and I'm destroying our fire mage I really don't mind sticking with it =)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasufer View Post
    I get max ticks for around 282k (crit ofc) with the opener on combust. As I dont play fire normally, I'm not sure whether it's good or bad and I dont really care since as stated previously I think it's so damn boring :S
    But yer, just for comparison.
    I assume you are using Skada which includes the initial damage of the combustion in its damage breakdown for maximum hit. I am highly doubting you are getting around 280k ignites under normal conditions:- i.e. outside Jinrokh pools/Horridon vulnerablities etc.
    Mage since 2004. Raiding Heroic 25 man content with ScrubBusters
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nevieva/simple
    http://www.scrubbusters.com/

  10. #10
    Ahhh that might be the initial hit, true dat, sry! Ill see if I can find an old log to find the number for the max ticks then ^^

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    You're a tad better geared than me Hasufer, and I'm no slouch at playing Fire, but 280k Combustion ticks? You almost had me crapping my pants .

    In a good opener, if our Warriors don't forget to bring out their skull banner, I can get an ignite of roughly 150-160k going before combusting. Outside of that? If I don't have any luck it's 40k, if I get lucky it's 80-90k.

    I've played Frost for the past month and a half, and while the consistency and versatility (Frozen Orb, IL cleave and FB shatters how I miss you) of Frost blow Fire out of the water, there's nothing that gets my pulse going like a perfect opener or a streak of Pyro!s. Fire is simply more exciting, in part because it's an emotional rollercoaster. Bad RNG? Nothing to be done about it, simply have to suck it up. Good RNG? Hello crazy output.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    I just don't know, all the top mages as fire and you don't really see any mages at 515+ as frost anymore.
    Well I for one am closing in on 520 and still playing frost.

    Thing is, just because you don't see any among the top players / rankings doesn't mean there's really a gear breakpoint somewhere, lots of that comes just from frost being underrepresented by default. Majority of raiding mages have long, long been fire or arcane while the classical role of frost was that of a PvP spec and even though the cards had been reshuffled significantly we're somehow still stuck in this mind set.

    As most people said, you'll be a little more versatile and damage will be more stable with frost while fire might or might not allow you to surpas it, depending on RNG. I personally find frost a lot more suitable for ToT encounters overall and as long as your raid is fine with your performance there's really no reason to change anything at the moment.
    Last edited by The Kao; 2013-05-04 at 02:14 PM.

  13. #13
    I dno, I always read people saying they get massive ignites.

    I hit combustion when I get a 40k+
    A good combust for me is at 60k when I'm lucky, and then 90k+ when bosses take more damage, for example.

    Can't remember what that ticks for.

    Fire takes practice imo


    Saying that, I did go frost for the first time in ages last night in LFR to see what the deal was. In full fire gear I was doing about the same as I would in fire, if not a little more... I think I'm 36% crit self buffed as fire?

    I think I'm going to re-forge and re-gem to try frost properly, as it's obviously better than fire for me at the moment... I just can't stand what stupid bloody pet.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke-Hex View Post
    I dno, I always read people saying they get massive ignites.

    I hit combustion when I get a 40k+
    A good combust for me is at 60k when I'm lucky, and then 90k+ when bosses take more damage, for example.

    Can't remember what that ticks for.

    Fire takes practice imo


    Saying that, I did go frost for the first time in ages last night in LFR to see what the deal was. In full fire gear I was doing about the same as I would in fire, if not a little more... I think I'm 36% crit self buffed as fire?

    I think I'm going to re-forge and re-gem to try frost properly, as it's obviously better than fire for me at the moment... I just can't stand what stupid bloody pet.
    And know, realise that all that extra crit was useless, as you are crit capped @ 28% as frost.
    Then think about glyphs/talents/gem/reforge .

    Thats right, frost is very good, even at with low gear, I see a lot more fire mage than frost and they always have less gear than I do, they must do a shitty dps as fire but heh, at least you throw big balls of fire right
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    If you end up with 36% crit selfbuffed you won't do more dps than frost.

    I tried fire for 2 lockouts with 36.xx% crit selfbuff and I raged so much I respeced an destroyed the meters again

    Sorry
    My story exactly, I just found fire extremely annoying to play and quite frankly I think a lot of people do fire only because they saw some video with Method or BL fire mages doing some ungodly opener combustion and then took a peak at WoL top10 rankings where you find a few meter padding super lucky parses.

    How nice is it to blow a perfectly good progression kill by just not being able to put out the dps needed when you are supposed to e.g. transition a boss? Consistency > high potential through rng in my opinion. And at the end of the day, fire mages with an average amount of crits in a fight won't do any more dps than a frost mage pulls on every single parse.

    Just my 2 cents

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delath View Post
    My story exactly, I just found fire extremely annoying to play and quite frankly I think a lot of people do fire only because they saw some video with Method or BL fire mages doing some ungodly opener combustion and then took a peak at WoL top10 rankings where you find a few meter padding super lucky parses.
    Yeah, or because we tried out the different specs and have superior results as Fire on a consistent basis.

    Nah, I forgot. A lot of us Fire Mages are idiots who sheepishly follow whatever Vykina or Kuznam are doing. Thanks for the info, I know myself a lot better now. I should respec Frost for the instant boost in knowledge about how to play my class 'right', because I am seemingly doing it oh so horribly wrong as Fire.

    I noticed you have a whopping 0 Heroic kills on your Mage. How about you let me play my toon and reserve your biased, asinine judgment for your inner monologue. As opposed to you, I don't have any prejudices concerning Frost Mages. I could say they are afraid to be competitive Mages and hide behind a suboptimal spec, waving their WoL ranks because hardly anyone is actually playing the spec. I could say they have to insult Fire Mages whenever the opportunity presents itself out of a deeply ingrained minority complex. But I won't.

    You can keep your 2 cents.
    Last edited by Myz; 2013-05-07 at 04:07 PM.

  17. #17
    You're rude.

    And do you always have superior results? I am guessing no since you mention RNG in your other post in this thread. Maybe some people don't like the emotional rollercoaster attached to fire.

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahnaa View Post
    You're rude.
    If he would have made a proper assessment of Fire Mages in general, then I would've answered properly. But this? I'm so tired of that. "They are not playing my spec so they must be baddies without any knowledge of their class, mindlessly copying top raiding Mages".
    Last edited by Myz; 2013-05-07 at 06:45 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    If he would have made a proper assessment of Fire Mages in general, then I would've answered properly. But this? I'm so tired of that. "They are not playing my spec so they must be baddies without any knowledge of their class, mindlessly copying top raiding Mages".
    I don't see where he called anyone a baddie...at all.

    What I got from what he said was this - people jumped on the fire bandwagon because of what they saw from said top raiding mages. Happens with every spec at some point.

    People can and do pad meters - he has a point there, but not everyone pads meters. Big deal.

    You still didn't answer my question if you always have superior results...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post

    Snip
    I can see someone didn't get their coffee this morning...

    It's very unfortunate if you get that offended by other people stating what they think when they are not even replying to your post. If you happened to miss my second point about the consistency vs. rng it's also pretty much exactly what you said yourself earlier so I'm failing to see your problem here. Some people like rng and unpredictable results while others like consistency. I prefer the latter and hence play frost.

    Also very classy to play the "you have no hc kill, baddie" card. As for frost being a suboptimal spec that hardly anyone plays, well I'll refrain from even commenting that.

    If you enjoy fire and get better results, good for you and happy gaming. Others enjoy frost and have their reasons, let us enjoy that spec and have our own opinion.

    Peace out.

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