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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    I like avoidance, that random chance you parry and dodge 4 attacks and survive because of it. What I hate about avoidance, much like armor, is that casters don't have to deal with it. Which is bullshit.

    Make dodge/parry effect spells! If I can dodge a giant 2h axe right in front of me I should be able to dodge an ice lance from 30 yrds.

    And also CC that bypasses it. Let that avoidance hit everything. Dodge the polymorph, parry the cheapshot, dodge the repentance...
    Remember in BC when pretty much any form of CC had a chance to be resisted? I loved that, it was so gamebreaking and unstable yet it made you adapt on the fly, was crazy fun.

    I remember orc warriors having like a 30-35% chance to resist stuns due to racial and warrior talent bonuses and even that meta gem, whenever an orc warrior encountered a rogue in arena they'd just be bathing in their sweet sweet tears.

    I'd be down for CC resist to come back to the game, I could imagine resisting a mages deepfreeze, oh wow just thinking about it makes me all tingly.

  2. #22
    Korgoth, Blizzard added increased parry to plate-wearers. AND IT SUCKS ASS. I refuse to believe you haven't had your mortal strike dodged/parried multiple times in a row effectively making you useless and a liability to your team because you aren't able to get any damage out let alone any pressure. It's a stupid mechanic that doesn't reward skill but luck.

    It had it's place in previous expansions where classes were more balanced around rock paper scissors. Things could survive long enough to counter a dodged/blocked/parried attack and there wasn't enough CC to bypass to ensure your target couldn't play the game. The current playstyle promotes forcing one player to be unable to play while getting manhandled and RNG avoidance is a symptom of that as well.
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  3. #23
    Epic! Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Korgoth, Blizzard added increased parry to plate-wearers. AND IT SUCKS ASS. I refuse to believe you haven't had your mortal strike dodged/parried multiple times in a row effectively making you useless and a liability to your team because you aren't able to get any damage out let alone any pressure. It's a stupid mechanic that doesn't reward skill but luck.

    It had it's place in previous expansions where classes were more balanced around rock paper scissors. Things could survive long enough to counter a dodged/blocked/parried attack and there wasn't enough CC to bypass to ensure your target couldn't play the game. The current playstyle promotes forcing one player to be unable to play while getting manhandled and RNG avoidance is a symptom of that as well.
    Flaks, I'm curious to know how much Expertise you're running with. On my PTR Warrior I'm basically running with 10% Expertise and rarely getting dodged/parried. If you're still going with 3-4% Expertise, that won't cut it when strength classes have around 18% parry rating.

    Mastery and Haste are crap stats for Warriors. I don't understand why this is a huge deal when Cataclysm Warriors would prioritize Expertise over those stats anyway.
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  4. #24
    I run with around 6% expertise and I barely get dodged/parried, i only went to 6% because thats when expertise states that level 90 targets have a 0% chance to dodge or parry my attacks, now i know that it doesnt mean that my attacks are completely unavoidable, but its just a nice round number to go with because of that. to be honest im not sure at all how expertise works in pvp.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Vojka View Post
    I run with around 6% expertise and I barely get dodged/parried, i only went to 6% because thats when expertise states that level 90 targets have a 0% chance to dodge or parry my attacks, now i know that it doesnt mean that my attacks are completely unavoidable, but its just a nice round number to go with because of that. to be honest im not sure at all how expertise works in pvp.
    Unlike mobs which have a set chance to be dodge/block/parry based on their lvl players have their own percent chance of this happening (which i'm sure you know already) All your expertise does in PvP is subtract from there chance to avoid it. If they have 15% avoidance and you have 9% expertise they have effectively 6% avoidance against you.


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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Flaks, I'm curious to know how much Expertise you're running with. On my PTR Warrior I'm basically running with 10% Expertise and rarely getting dodged/parried. If you're still going with 3-4% Expertise, that won't cut it when strength classes have around 18% parry rating.

    Mastery and Haste are crap stats for Warriors. I don't understand why this is a huge deal when Cataclysm Warriors would prioritize Expertise over those stats anyway.
    And just like now, Cataclysm warriors stacking expertise would still constantly get dodged by ferals and rogues. It is utterly impossible to get any semblance of expertise enough to see a notable decrease in the number of parries/dodges against str/agility classes. And yes, I'm expertise stacked as much as I can be while staying hit capped.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    So that melee don't have to put up with this bs anymore. There's no reason for dodge/parry to exist outside of heavy cooldowns in PvP. It makes the game flat out frustrating for the attackers and lowers the skill cap for the classes doing all the avoidance.

    They had a chance to change this going into MoP by reducing/removing dodge from the agility class. Instead they went the other way by giving strength classes more parry. No one likes having their attacks completely ignored based entirely on randomness. Critical strikes are enough randomness already.

    Classes that are reliant on these mechanics for their survival simply shouldn't be. Monks, and to a lesser extent the rest of the agility and to an even lesser extent the plate classes, should be compensated with anti-melee survivability buffs in the way of new cds or baseline damage reduction IF NECESSARY on a class to class basis.

    P.S. Tanks can keep their passive avoidance though.
    I do agree. For the most part, rng in pvp is one of the few largest reasons why WoW pvp cannot be taken seriously as an e-sport. Sure, crit rng is fine, but the random out of the blue parry or dodge on a finisher kill is just plain soul crushing. Monks especially are quite the annoyance for other melee due to sparring and being an agi class. You can basically have 30-40% avoidance simply mashing buttons around as a WW monk. But yes, a removal of the random caster being able to dodge or the melee being able to "tank" your damage skating by on rng avoidance would make a step towards making this games pvp bearable when it comes to competitive balancing.
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  8. #28
    Epic! Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    And just like now, Cataclysm warriors stacking expertise would still constantly get dodged by ferals and rogues. It is utterly impossible to get any semblance of expertise enough to see a notable decrease in the number of parries/dodges against str/agility classes. And yes, I'm expertise stacked as much as I can be while staying hit capped.
    But you just spam overpower on those agility classes. You can always Charge then Mortal Strike them to ensure you get a hit since they can't dodge while stunned.

    There is a difference between 3% and 10%. Someone with 3-4% basically has a twice as much chance to be dodged or parried. I feel the difference when I play my Frost DK sitting at 4% Expertise when I'm constantly getting Killing Machine Procced Obliterates parried. Now that really sucks.

    I think they should lower the Parry Value to around 12-14% for Strength classes. Agility leather can have around 13-15%. I agree that the values are getting too high but they shouldn't be completely removed.
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  9. #29
    So you want even more buttons to push and cooldowns to keep track of? No thanks.

    Dodge/Parry are fine as passive rng imo.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    And just like now, Cataclysm warriors stacking expertise would still constantly get dodged by ferals and rogues. It is utterly impossible to get any semblance of expertise enough to see a notable decrease in the number of parries/dodges against str/agility classes. And yes, I'm expertise stacked as much as I can be while staying hit capped.
    Really? In pvp gear I have 13% dodge, pretty damn easy to overcome if you felt like it. They did nerf dodge at launch, at least for ferals and guardians, quite significantly so.
    Last edited by Kojo; 2013-05-05 at 06:14 AM.

  11. #31
    Now imagine, if you were playing enhance for a moment. During your "i became the god of storm" CD, your attacks becomes nature based spell attacks. So they can be resisted. Also, they can be dodged and parried. Nothing more statisfying than seeing your stormblast being parried.

    Best from both worlds, i'm right?
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    I like avoidance, that random chance you parry and dodge 4 attacks and survive because of it. What I hate about avoidance, much like armor, is that casters don't have to deal with it. Which is bullshit.

    Make dodge/parry effect spells! If I can dodge a giant 2h axe right in front of me I should be able to dodge an ice lance from 30 yrds.

    And also CC that bypasses it. Let that avoidance hit everything. Dodge the polymorph, parry the cheapshot, dodge the repentance...
    Yeah, evasion with glyph will be fun. :P

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Casters play without having to worry about RNG avoidance. And they're superior to melee in most if not all ways. There's enough of combat dynamics added simply with class toolsets and critical strikes.
    When you can interrupt a melee attack will also be the day that you can compare a caster attacking a target and a melee attacking a target.....

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    When you can interrupt a melee attack will also be the day that you can compare a caster attacking a target and a melee attacking a target.....
    lol funny stuff.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    When you can interrupt a melee attack will also be the day that you can compare a caster attacking a target and a melee attacking a target.....
    Ever heard of range? I can't believe you're bringing this argument up. Besides, who even casts heavily nowadays a part from the occasional Destrolock which isn't that great in 3v3? Also, this is purely RNG, last time I checked there are no "random interrupts" in MoP.

    And yes, spells could be resisted in cata, but you could actually get the required stats to certainly avoid that without noticeably affecting your damage/survivability. If RNG avoidance is to "balance things out", then I'm pretty sure every single player that would like to play the game on a competitive level would choose something less random and retarded.
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  16. #36
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    Not a problem for my warrior, DK or windwalker, perhaps I've just had lots of practice at not standing infront of someone thanks to playing a rogue.
    Perhaps I just play against people who can manage to rotate their character and you don't. As a warrior with 108% speed and a 50% slow, you arent staying behind anyone unless they let you, or are in a CC.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 09:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Korgoth, Blizzard added increased parry to plate-wearers. AND IT SUCKS ASS. I refuse to believe you haven't had your mortal strike dodged/parried multiple times in a row effectively making you useless and a liability to your team because you aren't able to get any damage out let alone any pressure. It's a stupid mechanic that doesn't reward skill but luck.

    It had it's place in previous expansions where classes were more balanced around rock paper scissors. Things could survive long enough to counter a dodged/blocked/parried attack and there wasn't enough CC to bypass to ensure your target couldn't play the game. The current playstyle promotes forcing one player to be unable to play while getting manhandled and RNG avoidance is a symptom of that as well.
    I've also Dodged and Parried multiple times in a row. The fun gained from unexpectedly living outweighs the fun lost from unexpectedly losing.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Perhaps I just play against people who can manage to rotate their character and you don't. As a warrior with 108% speed and a 50% slow, you arent staying behind anyone unless they let you, or are in a CC.
    Well you have me at a disadvantage there because I have no idea what PVP experience you have. Tbh I'm not even 100% sure I know which MMO you play (though if it's WoW you have the same speed/slow as a rogue).
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  18. #38
    Dreadlord Castozor's Avatar
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    Rng avoidance is just redundant and unfairly disadvantaging melee classes. Casters can't have any of their dps rng avoided so why should melee's suffer that? Furthermore, to those saying "just get a bit more expertise", you do realise that is just lost stats against any caster team right? Which would be fine if casters suffer from the same problem but they don't.

  19. #39
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    I'm gonna necro this thread because it's not old at all but still relevant. God it's frustrating when all important abilites get dodged/parried. Have you ever heard anyone say: Damn I remember back in the day when I played WoW and how fun it was when I charged up a real strong ability only for it to be dodged... yeah... Put a 5% cap on it in PvP, excluding evasion and die by the sword etc.
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  20. #40
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    I'd love to see parry/dodge removed. Having a KM obliterate avoided is a game changer.

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