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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    Quite frankly I have no idea how people even do it. You gain so little experience it must take forever to level that way.
    BG leveling is quite fast below level 85 if you are queued for the random or call to arms BG. Plus, the honor gets you useful gear (including JP gear).

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-04 at 03:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    I wonder why they've nerfed PVP Power so bad. We will get 50% less damage bonus out of PVP Power in 5.3 and also gain 50% less PVP Power from sockets! Stacking INT/STR/AGI will definitely be the way to go then. I can live with that, but wouldn't it dangerously narrow the gap between PVP and PVE gear? With the loss of PVP Resilience from most of gear and 50% nerf to PVP Power, I see PVE trinkets being BiS in PVP and human racial being the best of the best... Not good!
    It was explained why PvP power was nerfed. The first part of the gear change was converting all PvP Resilience to PvP Power. The resulting almost-doubled PvP Power was excessive. In other words it was nerfed because it was horribly broken otherwise.

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    PvP Healers are a joke and will be even worse in 5.3 with the PvP power nerf. As it is right now you can't burst one down and you can't even resort to mana fights anymore. Arenas have become so mind numbing, drawn out and tedious it hurts.


  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    It was explained why PvP power was nerfed. The first part of the gear change was converting all PvP Resilience to PvP Power. The resulting almost-doubled PvP Power was excessive. In other words it was nerfed because it was horribly broken otherwise.
    I remember reading that PVP Resilience on set bonuses, PVP meta gem and that 2200 weapon enchant is being converted to PVP Power, while the Resilience on the actual gear is being outright removed. Or am I missing something?

    From PVP gear blog (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/789...3-26_03_2013):

    Incoming 5.3 Gear Changes
    With all of this in mind, we’re making some pretty dramatic changes to PvP gear and the PvP environment in 5.3:
    Base Resilience will be set to 65% for all characters level 85 and higher
    Resilience will be removed from nearly all PvP gear
    Players will still be able to use Resilience gems and enchants
    PvP power will remain exclusively on PvP gear
    PvP set bonuses that currently provide Resilience will now provide PvP Power
    Last edited by Nightfall; 2013-05-04 at 11:34 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    PvP Healers are a joke and will be even worse in 5.3 with the PvP power nerf. As it is right now you can't burst one down and you can't even resort to mana fights anymore. Arenas have become so mind numbing, drawn out and tedious it hurts.
    Every class can burst everybody down in mere seconds. Pvp is faster than ever and is actually way too fast. You are bad.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    Every class can burst everybody down in mere seconds. Pvp is faster than ever and is actually way too fast. You are bad.
    Please enlighten me to some unfound knowledge that you know about that some people do not.

    In mere seconds? Are the healers you're attacking AFK or fresh 90s? I know how to utilize the many CCs/Silences/Interrupts/etc on my characters (since there's a ton of them). The problem isn't DPS don't know how to use them, it's that healers can live through a lot of them and the only way to truly make use of them is to focus them down with a group of people.

    As for a previous posted who posted about Arenas, he's correct. Arenas are an absolute nightmare when a healer is present. In a 2v2 (DPS couple situation) where you encounter a healer, you have a decision to make. Do you A: CC the DPS so he's not tearing away on you while you try to kill the healer or do you use all of your CC on the healer so you can maybe kill it?

    2v2 games with healers last forever and seem to never end. Most of the time they never lose mana, they draw it out to 20-30 minutes and usually a team just leaves out of the pure boredom of the match. Then there's the people who say "Don't do 2v2". Well, what if you want to get the achievements from it?

    Every healer IIRC has always had an annoyance. I remember Resto druids that were constantly running around poles while keeping people hotted and we didn't have nearly the amount of slows/roots and stuns we do today. Disc Priests in previous expansions were pretty hard to kill but compared to today, it's just nuts.

    I know some people only see their favorite thing to do: whether it be 3v3, 5v5, RBGs, etc.

    Some people do enjoy BG leveling to an extent, some of us do like random BGs, so just because Blizzard leaves things terribly unbalanced doesn't mean we shouldn't play them at all.

    Rorschachs just sounds like a troll at this point. You keep calling people who can't kill healer's bad, well I'd like to hear your expertise. Please, give me a run down on how to kill healers then, since I and others are doing it wrong. Tell me the secrets to making sure they don't live through all of your CC.

    I understand that PvP Power affects healers as well, but what happens if they go all PvE gear? Since gear will be normalized to 496 for everyone, resilience will be at 65%, what will happen if they all go straight PvE? I can see it happening.. because as it stands, there's absolutely no reason to use PvP gear. PvP power has been nerfed into the ground, leaving you with mediocre PvP power and a ton of lost SP/AP/Str/Crit/Etc. I can't predict the future with certainty, but here's my prediction none the less:

    A majority of people will switch to their PvE gear since it'll be more beneficial than wearing PvP gear. A lot of people will spec/roll healers just to cash in on the temporary insanity and run around being impossible to kill. BGs will more than likely last until the timer runs out or as long as possible.

  6. #26
    If they wanted to they could just reduce how much PvP power boosts healing. I dont really have a problem with PvP healers, theyre supposed to be hard to kill and need focus from your team, interrupts, ect. What I do have a problem with is hybrid heals. People who are dpsing should not be able to keep themselves up as well as a healer while doing almost the same dps they would be without healing.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 12:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    I understand that PvP Power affects healers as well, but what happens if they go all PvE gear? Since gear will be normalized to 496 for everyone, resilience will be at 65%, what will happen if they all go straight PvE? I can see it happening.. because as it stands, there's absolutely no reason to use PvP gear. PvP power has been nerfed into the ground, leaving you with mediocre PvP power and a ton of lost SP/AP/Str/Crit/Etc. I can't predict the future with certainty, but here's my prediction none the less:

    A majority of people will switch to their PvE gear since it'll be more beneficial than wearing PvP gear. A lot of people will spec/roll healers just to cash in on the temporary insanity and run around being impossible to kill. BGs will more than likely last until the timer runs out or as long as possible.
    If a healer is only in PvE gear, it wont be able to heal much at all. I know. I took my pally into BGs for the legendary questline and couldnt heal anything because I had no PvP power.

    Except maybe for weapons or a trinket, no one is going to use PvE gear over PvP gear. Both will be 496 ilvl but the PvP gear will also have free PvP power. So the PvP gear will still be effectively several ilvls above PvE gear.

  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by resonance7982 View Post
    Eh, the problem isn't healers as much as everyone having enough survivability to live through their healers being CCd for over a minute. my only problem with healers is stuff like disc priests and MW monks that can easily 1v1 any dps just because they have the damage output to destroy you while healing their selves. you can still OOM healers pretty easily if you put pressure on them correctly.
    No healer has enough dps to solo a hunter pet let alone a player, healers get 0 damage increase from pvp power. By the way the 5.3 pvp power nerf affects healer's healing just as much as dps' damage.

    The real problem is blizzard's ridiculously inflated health pools meant to last forever, ever since cata, not healing.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    No healer has enough dps to solo a hunter pet let alone a player, healers get 0 damage increase from pvp power. By the way the 5.3 pvp power nerf affects healer's healing just as much as dps' damage.

    The real problem is blizzard's ridiculously inflated health pools meant to last forever, ever since cata, not healing.
    I play mistweaver in pvp...and unless you are another healer or a really good tank I can 1v1 you. Jade lightning, xuen, ring of peace, disarm, transcendence, dematerialize, life cocoon, fort brew, diffuse magic, etc etc etc.
    Last edited by Chuupag; 2013-05-05 at 02:20 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    It was explained why PvP power was nerfed. The first part of the gear change was converting all PvP Resilience to PvP Power. The resulting almost-doubled PvP Power was excessive. In other words it was nerfed because it was horribly broken otherwise.
    Have to call BS on this on, it's not what happened. PvP defense just vanished, only set bonuses and such changed to power. It's a flat PvP gear nerf, actually two of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    Every class can burst everybody down in mere seconds. Pvp is faster than ever and is actually way too fast. You are bad.
    Or undergeared. Most likely both.

    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    In mere seconds? Are the healers you're attacking AFK or fresh 90s? I know how to utilize the many CCs/Silences/Interrupts/etc on my characters (since there's a ton of them). The problem isn't DPS don't know how to use them, it's that healers can live through a lot of them and the only way to truly make use of them is to focus them down with a group of people.
    Which is exactly the intent. You're not supposed to solo healers. They're build around 3 on 3 arenas where they're supposed to keep people alive against 2 dps for a time. That being said, certain classes such as dk's, mages and some others can solo healers in seconds. Try surviving a full duration deepfreeze against a decent mage and the following blanket silence.

    As for a previous posted who posted about Arenas, he's correct. Arenas are an absolute nightmare when a healer is present. In a 2v2 (DPS couple situation) where you encounter a healer, you have a decision to make. Do you A: CC the DPS so he's not tearing away on you while you try to kill the healer or do you use all of your CC on the healer so you can maybe kill it?
    As double DPS you have twice their damage. You're strong at the beginning of the match they get stronger as longer it lasts. In all honesty from what I've seen so far you want to balance it around low rating 2on2 arena which doesn't even yield titles anymore.

    3v3, 5v5, RBGs, etc.
    Blizzard stated themselves that they set their focus on 3on3 and RBGs and in both these environments healers are completly fine if not weaker than ever before.

    Rorschachs just sounds like a troll at this point. You keep calling people who can't kill healer's bad, well I'd like to hear your expertise. Please, give me a run down on how to kill healers then, since I and others are doing it wrong. Tell me the secrets to making sure they don't live through all of your CC.
    1. You're not supposed to solo healers.
    2. Some classes such as mages, dks and a few others can do it anyway and mostly by being equally geared and skilled. It's not very hard to do.

    I understand that PvP Power affects healers as well, but what happens if they go all PvE gear? Since gear will be normalized to 496 for everyone, resilience will be at 65%, what will happen if they all go straight PvE? I can see it happening.. because as it stands, there's absolutely no reason to use PvP gear. PvP power has been nerfed into the ground, leaving you with mediocre PvP power and a ton of lost SP/AP/Str/Crit/Etc. I can't predict the future with certainty, but here's my prediction none the less:
    PvP Power still gives a bonus, just not anywhere near as good as it was before. Why would healers give up on 15-20% increased healing? You're prediction is faulty and only shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

  10. #30
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I play mistweaver in pvp...and unless you are another healer or a really good tank I can 1v1 you. Jade lightning, xuen, ring of peace, disarm, transcendence, dematerialize, life cocoon, fort brew, diffuse magic, etc etc etc.
    No you can't. If I am in quest greens on an alt maybe, but no way you can 1v1 kill a skilled geared anyone. Survive yes, but kill no.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    No you can't. If I am in quest greens on an alt maybe, but no way you can 1v1 kill a skilled geared anyone. Survive yes, but kill no.
    I laughed at this. Mistweaver PvP is incredibly strong in duels or small skirmishes.
    If you have never encountered a fistweaver than so be it. But I have seen MW beat 1v3(3 dps, geared) with a certain degree of ease.

    And PvP gear will trump PvE by ALOT. Going for PvE gear in BG/Arena will just handicap you.

  12. #32
    well if they added a nerf too healing it should be some debuff placed onto people when entering a bg/rbg or arena and not a class nerf atm, cause that would screw pve healers.

    something like an X% healing reduced and shields.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by felhunter View Post
    well if they added a nerf too healing it should be some debuff placed onto people when entering a bg/rbg or arena and not a class nerf atm, cause that would screw pve healers.

    something like an X% healing reduced and shields.
    That sort of mechanic is already in-game. Battle Fatigue.

  14. #34
    I agree 100%. And if you do not, that just means that you play an OP healer and do not want to be nerfed from your god-like status.

    There are two problems with current PvP and they are inter-related.
    1. We have specs designed to keep whole raids alive allowed to play in PvP. These specs now have most of the utility options of damage specs thanks to the new MoP talent system. Healing is out of control.
    2. Too much burst. If healers are to have the survivability and effectiveness they currently enjoy, then there has to be big burst in PvP. Otherwise, healers would never die. And I mean NEVER.

    So, the root of most of the PvP problems stem from OP healers. Once they finally decide that 2 damage dealers should be able to take down a healer in PvP situations. Then, the burst can be modified. And then we can finally have some semblance of balance.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash1 View Post
    I agree 100%. And if you do not, that just means that you play an OP healer and do not want to be nerfed from your god-like status.

    There are two problems with current PvP and they are inter-related.
    1. We have specs designed to keep whole raids alive allowed to play in PvP. These specs now have most of the utility options of damage specs thanks to the new MoP talent system. Healing is out of control.
    2. Too much burst. If healers are to have the survivability and effectiveness they currently enjoy, then there has to be big burst in PvP. Otherwise, healers would never die. And I mean NEVER.

    So, the root of most of the PvP problems stem from OP healers. Once they finally decide that 2 damage dealers should be able to take down a healer in PvP situations. Then, the burst can be modified. And then we can finally have some semblance of balance.
    2 dps can take down a healer, but not relatively fast. If 2 dps could 'easily' take down a healer, the 3v3 bracket would be full with 3 dps comps.
    And that's not what we want now is it?

  16. #36
    Dreadlord Srg56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calelith View Post
    It is horrible, twinks everywhere.

    I liked the idea of an exp boost, the stats however are insane.
    I just leveled a lock trough 1-80 and it's basically prot warriors everywhere, with healers after them. This is a constant from level 15 to 80: revenge does 50% of your hp followed by a shield slam for the remaining 50%.

  17. #37
    Dreadlord KunkkaTheAdmiral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Phil View Post
    They just need to reduce healer's mana regen for pvp is all.

    BC had it perfect.
    You mean those Druids who could heal against 4 players in the BG easily and were unkillable in the Arena, you mean that perfect BC ?
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Phil View Post
    They just need to reduce healer's mana regen for pvp is all.

    BC had it perfect.
    This. People will cry "Wah, nostalgia lover!" or "Rose-tinted glasses wearer" but you're absolutely right. Healers need to be mindful of their mana and should have to face some sort of penalty for spamming their heals like... gasp, running out of mana. The signs of a great healer in BC was how crafty he was at slinking out of combat to get a drink in.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by bionics View Post
    This. People will cry "Wah, nostalgia lover!" or "Rose-tinted glasses wearer" but you're absolutely right. Healers need to be mindful of their mana and should have to face some sort of penalty for spamming their heals like... gasp, running out of mana. The signs of a great healer in BC was how crafty he was at slinking out of combat to get a drink in.
    Comparing BC combat, where it was actually possible to get out of combat for a while, not every class had ten thousand CCs, Gap closers and pets and burst was far lower with MoP PvP, really?

    Instead of whining about healers, who are as weak as never before in the history of WoW except for the start of Cataclysm where Blizzard immediatly buffed them through the roof because tripple DPS started dominating 3on3 you guys could stop being horrible DPS and to expect to solo healers since you're not supposed to. How about that?

  20. #40
    I understand that PvP Power affects healers as well, but what happens if they go all PvE gear? Since gear will be normalized to 496 for everyone, resilience will be at 65%, what will happen if they all go straight PvE? I can see it happening.. because as it stands, there's absolutely no reason to use PvP gear. PvP power has been nerfed into the ground, leaving you with mediocre PvP power and a ton of lost SP/AP/Str/Crit/Etc.
    Let's, for the sake of argument, compare two items of equal ilvl, one PvE, one PvP, shall we?

    http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=91799

    That comparison is a comparison between 496 PvP mail caster pants, and 496 tier shaman pants. They have the same stat pairing (in this case, Haste/Mastery), meaning that as closely as is possible they are simply PvE and PvP versions of the same item. Results?

    Ignoring socket bonus and color:
    PvE piece: 80 more intellect, 120 more mastery.
    PvP piece: 40 more haste, 1 extra socket, 488 PvP Power, 488 PvP Resilience.

    You know... it's almost like PvP stats aren't counted against an items budget. It's almost like PvP items are exactly as strong as their PvE counterparts of equal ilvl, then have PvP stats as a bonus to make them clearly superior in PvP.

    Now, if we look at a world were items are downleveled to 496, there's very little reason to ever use PvE gear instead of PvP gear. Those reasons are strictly limited to extra sockets and set bonuses, and trinket effects. Trinket effects are being nerfed, set bonuses mean giving up PvP set bonuses.... and extra sockets will be far less useful because you won't be able to gem a ton of PvP stats to make them into makeshift PvP gear (almost as if the nerf to PvP power were intended to stop people from gemming PvP power into PvE gear and using PvE gear in PvP with equal effectiveness....).

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